It is a free country, but I don't like it when people say things like that because it is usually used to justify irresponsible behavior. It may be a free country but does that free us of our responsibility to be socially conscious citizens? Just a thought.

In this case, yes, I hate Hummers but it was wrong for someone to vandalize the kid's Hummer regardless of what they though of it (and despite the fact that he's about 5 years behind in the "what's cool" department IMHO). I did think the article (in quoting the kid and his friends) unfairly accused many of the neighbors of being spiteful. He may have felt that people were satisfied about the destruction of his Hummer, but that may not have actually been the case. I think the article cast a blanket judgement on the neighborhood in that respect.

Finally, I'm not going to criticize him for being environmentally irresponsible. My MINI may get much better gas mileage than a Hummer, but I don't NEED a car. Most of the places I go I could use public transportation and I do take the Metro into work everyday. However, I still choose to own car that burns fuel and pollutes the environment. Am I doing my part in contributing to global warming? Yes. So who am I to criticize someone that does it to a greater (albeit in the grand scheme of things insignificant) degree?

 

WOW, yeh.... this might be some kind of record!? 75 responses & 4 pages in 6 hours !!!

 

Agreed 100%

Now that was well said

Maybe its a rant and belongs in the rant thread but if someone is going to criticize Hummer owners because of gas mileage, they better be "green" everywhere else like composting (instead of throwing garbage out), using CFLs instead of regular lightbulbs, recycling trash, etc. Otherwise its a bunch of hypocritical nonsense.

And vandalism sucks ... I'm sure when MINIs get keyed nobody likes that either NM what was done here. Environmentalist hoodlums They have no right destroying others property and should be prosecuted.

 

I have owned SUVs and so has MINInurse. Before I met MINInurse, I owned a Jeep Cherokee (87 & 93) and a Chevy Tahoe 4DR. MINInurse owned a Mitsubishi Montero Sport. When I lived in Vegas, I had a 6" lift kit and 3" body lift on it with 38 X 16.5 on it that stuck about a foot past the fenders on either side. I was almost as high as an 18 wheeler and I had a hard time seeing small cars as well. It is just the way you drive your vehicle. I drove my Tahoe like a TRUCK, slow and deliberate, making sure there was no one around me when I turned so I wouldn't hit anyone.

Now in the MINI, I drive it like a motorcycle. When I come to SUVs and 18 Wheelers, I stay back a bit and hug either the inside or outside line so they can see me. I also turn wide in parking lots and drive slow so than people can see me (and the graphics ). I have posted it here before, if you drive your MINI like riding a motorcycle, you will be safer.

Will I ever get an SUV again....... Probably.....
Will I lift it if I can......Probably....
Would I get an H2....Probably NOT..
Would I get an Excersion Diesel....... Oh HECK yea...

 

Anti-Eco-Vandals struck back last night and got my Mini...it was parked on the street and...this is what is left.

 

OMG, that photo is so funny...is that a Pinto? Gad, My father had one..

I agree with you, Drew...napping rules.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1307567

Guys friend posts over in NASIOC. The dude takes care of his widowed mother. That's why he lives with her. As for the other arguments, which is more efficient.

1. A Mini on the freeway with 2 occupants getting 36 mpg.

2. An H2 with 7 passengers getting 12 mpg.

Though I agree that there are better vehicles out there, under some circumstances, a large SUV makes sense i.e. if you have a large family or frequently have alot of passengers.

That and I hate sudoenvironmentalist. They are worried about what this guy is driving, but you won't find them without a Natural Spring bottled water in their hand. Way to save the world.

 

It'll buff out.

 

Who knows what impact his Hummer had on the environment? For all we know he could be buying Carbon-Credits to off-set the Hummer

 

I smell a counterfeit MINI

 

I'm torn on this case:

The liberal (small portion) in me hates Hummers. They are status symbols for many people. They are ugly (pure subjective opinion). Oil is a limited resource, under the feet of anti-American countries (Bush smells like sulpher, eh?).

The conservative in me says it's his money, let him enjoy life. How stupid that militant enviromentalists burn down ski lodges and Hummers at the dealer, releasing more toxic crap into the air than ever would have happened normally. Of course dumping the broken pieces into the landfill and replacing the damaged goods has no effect on the enviroment.

But come on, parking that outside in a liberal neighborhood? Seems like taunting to me.

After hearing about this on talk radio, figured I better pile on.

Wait a few years, this will seem tame.

 

Smashing the guys hummer is just wrong. There is no debate on that.

I did find a great article that says over the life of the vehicle, the hummer actually has less of an environmental impact than the hybrid prius.
http://www.katu.com/news/7561002.html

 

Nice find

Its information like this that might irritate the Eco-hoodlums and MINI owners who proclaim superiority on energy usage over vehicles like the H2. What they fail to consider is the big picture ... The cost of product, the research costs, the costs to build the factories, the trees cut down to build the battery factories, etc. All they think about is the "immediate gratification" ... without thought to the big picture.

Why is that? They don't know better to look at the whole picture or just choose to ignore that?

 

I have to agree with the folks who think this was a senseless act of vandalism and that crap like that is a grave discredit to whatever political cause you may espouse. The perps should be ashamed of themselves, but I suspect that they are simply smugly satisfied.

I also agree with many of the arguments against the easy ownership of such vehicles. At the very least, I think any vehicle with a curb weight of over 5500 or so pounds should require a different class of license. A very statistically significant number of drivers of those vehicles are a complete and total menace to the rest of us. I don't think that there should be a ban and I understand some folks may actually need those vehicles for work, but endangering the lives of others by operating a three ton missile like a race car is not an expression of individuality. It's just freaking obnoxious.

 

I was debating many issues when last car shopping. I was wishing for a pure electric. My weekday commute and home situation would be perfect for a plug in to charge electric car. You get into the whole 'you're just moving the point of pollution' argument then though.

I looked at the Prius hybrid too. I found most of the Prius owners with commutes like mine getting around 39 mpg 'real world'. I made a decision that 3-4 times the horsepower & ten times the fun for 75% of the mpg was a pretty darn good compromise, for me. My MINI is a extravagant toy. I admit that. The model and config I chose gets 29 MPG and cost 30K+. I could have bought a Civic, Kia, etc. with similar to better mileage and a fraction the cost. Not a fun toy though.

My MINI is a expensive toy that makes no economic sense, kinda like a Hummer. Yes there are cheaper MINI's, yes the MINI gets better MPG etc. But the MINI isn't a horse, or walking, or cycling, or using mass transit and I don't see a MINI as making anyone eligible for instant 'green sainthood'.

By the way, the MINI (at least 1st generation) tail pipe emissions ain't nothing to write home about either in spite of decent mpg folks. Look at the window sticker that came on your car.

Unless you're a cloistered monk or nun and walking around in your bare feet you've each likely struck some compromise between greeness, perceived needs, convenience, and plain honest wants. Are the cloistered folks living off only their garden? Are they replacing nutrients in the soil in their garden? Are they controlling erosion and runoff? Maybe. Just how green can we get? How green are you willing to be honestly and at what cost, cost in convenience, and change in lifestyle?

I think most of us would like to be much more green. I know I would. But these are tough questions to balance. I really doubt buying a MINI or a hybrid is making a huge difference in any one persons' total impact on our environment. We need to look at our energy & water use at home, work, how well we do at recycling as well as shopping for recycled products and products with recycle friendly packaging. Just for starters!

A MINI is I bet, for most of us who are honest with ourselves, primarily a fun choice not a green choice. I think it's a great compromise. I love it, but certainly wouldn't beat my drum bragging that's it's especially eco freindly.

 

Bravo! To borrow from, and re-subject, George Carlin, Anyone who has a smaller/more fuel efficient car than you is an extremest and anyone who has a bigger/less efficient one is an idiot.

 

That was a good bit, before George got all nasty and bitter!

 

Item: The Prius does much more damage to the environment than the Hummer. Making and disposing of those batteries releases a witches brew of chemicals into the biosphere in alarming numbers.

Item: The Prius sells better than any other hybrid because it looks different. It isn't enough for Prius owners to have a hybrid, they have to be noticed as having a hybrid.

Item: The silly kid bought a used Hummer, thereby recycling right?

And most importantly, someone will disagree with any decision you make. Do what you want. If someone asks you why you need this or that outrageous thing, the only legitimate answer is, "It's none of your business!" It is your choice whether to punctuate that sentance with a right to the jaw.

 

Item one is a prime example of political misuse of "facts." That statement is true for the manufacture and disposal of ALL batteries. ALL cars have batteries. The life-cycle of Prius batteries is average. BTW, I am not one who touts the alleged eco-friendliness of my MINI -- I didn't get it for that reason ---- nor one who believes SUV drivers are inherently evil. I just get perturbed at the intentional distortion of information to support a point. If your point is valid, it only harms the argument to do so.

 

Batteries are bad for the environment. The Prius has more batteries.

 

Fast-forward six months. And now, imagine a freak snowstorm dumping a good foot and a half of snow or more on the area. Couple this with an emergency need to get to a hospital or some other dire emergency (not a Starbux craving). Suddenly that Hummer sitting in a town filled with Piouses, Acrids and Civvies is looking rather beautiful. Then again, even a snowplow would not be welcome in the area, since, after all, it's big, smelly and impossible to see around.

It amuses me to see those same 'little car, big aspirations' people shopping at Home Depot and trying to load a half dozen sheets of plywood and then some onto the roofs of their cars. I've seen such hastily loaded cargo spread out on the street a short distance from the store causing all manner of hell on the road. It would behoove such individuals to rent the truck instead to get their purchases home.

Environmentalism is a noble cause. I consider myself an an environmentalist, and I have been one since a young age. But I am also a realist. I go beyond what most people do to care for the environment. But I am still 'guilty' of being a rabid gearhead. The two can coexist nicely. And as time and technology march on, the two mesh even better.

I see 'radical' environmentalists as misguided idiots that harm the cause as well and nullify their own actions. Burning a Hummer in protest creates some really nasty pollution. But they seem unable to see that, blinded by their extremism. The same goes for any extremist for the most part.

 

all this talk of gas guzzling..... does anyone realize that thanks to fuel injection, modern trucks like the HUMMER turn off half of thier cylenders and run on four when crusing.... my Dad has a supercharged Tahoe... gets 22 MPG.... I was like WHAT?! oh man.... that's not THAT much less than my mini.. which gets around 27 oh a good day...

I agree that NO ONE has the right to vandilize someones property.... I am tired of such things... have been vitim to it with the MINI... you have a problem... come knock on the door... I'll be happy to address it how ever you like... just don't touch my stuff.

 

How do you guys only get 27mpg in your cars? Do you do a lot of city driving? I've been getting 35-37mpg. Gotta love highways.

Aren't batteries recyclable?

 

This is a generalization, but true nonetheless. Auto lead-acid batteries are one of the most recycled items out there. It's also one of the most recyclable, being made of two main components, lead and polypropylene plastic. All of the lead is recycled, most often back into more car batteries. This minimizes the mining of new raw materials. The nickel used in typical hybrid batteries is mostly being mined from ore rather than coming from recycled sources, mainly since there has not been any push for this metal to be recycled (not that it cant be) and most often nickel is alloyed into other metals or is not easily recoverable. Case in point, every 'chrome' plated piece of steel you see is actually four metals - the base steel item, a copper 'primer' coat used to provide fill and gloss, nickel for the silver color, and a thin, transparent layer of chrome itself, which provides the anticorrosion protection. Recovering these base metals is possible, but not practical at all.

NiMH batteries used in hybrids, while recyclable, is not done very easily, especially compared to lead-acid batteries. There will not be much of a turnaround in hybrid batteries until someone comes up with a means to economically disassemble and separate the cell components. More promising battery technology, such as lithium ion, poses other problems at end-of-life. Lithium is dangerous to handle, as it will burn when exposed to the air. It's also dangerous as a battery, since any damage can cause the battery to explode. Think about the laptop battery recalls of the recent past (and currently).

The last part of the picture has yet to show, and that is when the hybrids have racked up years and miles and are wearing out. It will become economically unfeasable to replace a battery pack costing thousands of dollars in a car worth half that amount at best. What will happen then is either the cars will run soley on their gas engines to get around (negating their benefits), or find themselves disposed early with lots of potential use left in them but crushed by economics. At least they can be recycled, but the energy used in making a new car to replace a prematurely disposed one also negate the benefits gained in the past.

 

there are Prius taxis in NYC that have well over 200k miles without issue. Only time will tell if they live up to typical Toyota durability.