Reading the other links gives some idea that the lower frame brace is effective. It would be nice to have a quantitative analysis rather than just the "it feels much stiffer" sort of thing.

Maybe one of the magazines such as Grassroots Motorsports might be talked into doing some research.

The Cabrios have a small brace that goes from the from the front strut tower to the frame support for the front bumper. It is there to stiffen the whole front end. The holes are there in the non-Cabrios so it would be a quick install, 8 or 12 torx bolts total, I don't remember which. Just need to find out the part number, should be a popular upgrade.

 

It actually might be fairly easy to rig something up to detect movement between those mount spots. I have some ideas...

 

Too bad you can't rent a strain gauge

 

Would such a gauge be visible in the car, or be recorded somehow?

 

Yes. They're electronic. Where I've seen them used is on airfoils during windtunnel tests. It would be possible but not easy. You'd also have to know the specific of the material the bar was made of. Then the measured motion can be converted into loads.
Unfortunately I've only watched them being used and am not any good at the actual set up.

 

I checked out the lower frame brace you indicated on eBay and they note that it will not fit the Cooper S

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WD1V


Just thought you ought to know.

 

Well, dealing with Strutbracer has been a real pisser.
You buy through the web site, they take your money and then tell you it's another £25 ($45 USD) to ship. So much for being cheaper. Now I get to go through the fun process of trying to get my money back

Looks like the grumpy people at motorspot may get my money after all.

neilgj

It's already on 2 MCSs over in Belgium. That was in the MINI2 link.

 

You're right... you shouldn't have. The discussion is basically the same though... plenty of speculation and absolutely no facts.

What you should do is buy one, give it to a GOOD racer who runs consistent lap times. Have them install it for a session and chart the results. Of course, the argument is that they already have a cage so body stiffness is already increased - which would explain why this did nothing to make the car run faster.

I've always been at a loss for why people feel the need to buy these various bars for their cars. What exactly is the goal? If it's simply to add one more thing to your "mod list" then go for it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could convince themselves (after buying one of course) that it improved the "feeeeeel" of the car. Of course, I'd bet that if I snuck into their garage during the night and removed it they'd never notice.

Anyway, my point is that there's no way to PROVE the benifits of such a device so trying to discuss it is rather pointless.

 

grassroots had to send the mini back. it was a preproduction car and had to go to the crusher. seems criminal doesn't it.


i do remember hearing early on when i was shopping for my MINI that it was 50% more ridgid than the then current BMW 3 series (e46) the new 3 (e90) i'm not sure about. the reason was for impact damage and rigidity for such a small car.

 

That doesn't make a bit of sense. Having crawled around under a bunch of MINI's and swapping a number of front sway-bars, I have never perceived any difference in the sub-frame at this area. The manual mentions no differences, either (that I've seen). This bar simply fits behind the air-dam, which is identical on both cars.

Those silly e-bay sellers!

 

Is that true also for a convertible? I will be considering adding a frame brace to a convertible.

 

How's the weather up there on Mt Olympus?
It's a shame there's uninformed stupid people in the world I'm sure it would be a MUCH better place if it were run by opinionated know it alls like you.

OH! That's right it is and look at what a great place it is.

I quit coming here years ago just because of buttheads like you. Nice to know it hasn't changed much

 

here are some frame reinforcements that are made for the cooper S.
http://www.hosokawa.co.jp/maxstyle/w...ts_english.htm

 

I haven't done one on a convertible, but I have taken some mental notes about the under-carriage, and I don't recall seeing any differences in the front sub-frame.

Don't hold me to it, but I think you'll be all right.

 

The MINI convertible has substantial reinforcements on its underside to help compensate for the loss of a rigid top... Most notably are long diagonals, I recall forming a V-like pattern. But I don't recall much up front...

As we have our engines generate more and more power (mostly torque though), the flexing of once adequately stout structures are bound to happen. An inquiry or thoughts as to this bar's ability to address this eventual need is what obe is after...

dhayashi, thanks for the link. I actually saw those before, but it was only on the Japanese site. I wish the photos were bigger!

 

Thoughts of a Nimrod.
I breathlessly await an Olympian to buy one and give their $1 worth but here's my 2¢ anyway.

Install is cake. No real need for details. If anyone knows the real torque value of the bolts that are removed please post. They broke away fairly easily using a 10" ratchet so I put them back in at 50lbs/ft. I was surprised they loosened that easily.
Impressions:
Normal putting around.
The turn in feels a bit sharper. Just enough difference that you notice there's a difference. This surprised me.
Drove down a stretch of road close by that is paved but heavily patched. 35-mph limit. I've been over this stretch thousands of times.
Next surprise, the car felt more stable. Like the dampers were doing more work and the chassis was moving less. Subtle but definitely there. Did not expect this so it's not a "ooh it's going to do this thing" false impression.
Next I hit some parking lot speed bumps I go over quite regularly. This too felt different/better. :smile: These things alone made it worth the bucks.

Chance to push it a little.
There is a traffic circle I go half way around on the way to and from work every day. I know it well.
Speed limit is 25 and I take it at 30 all the time. There were a few cars close enough I didn't want to push it so I hit it at about 32.
Got a pretty good confirmation of something I got hints of earlier in my putting around. I think I picked up a bit of understeer.
Went for a short drive around the base and headed home. Luck me. Not a car in site. This roundabout has about a 45' radius. Fairly tight but not bad.
I can hug the curb at 38-40-mph pretty consistently but I don't get much practice for obvious reasons.
Did a full 360º lap. Have my SSRs and Kumho 712s on the car BTW, my auto-x tires. Not my normal street tires. Running street tires pressures
At 38 mph or so they're just on the edge of being vocal. This is a little slower than usual ( usual being just under or at 40-mph) and it did confirm my suspicions.
The car picked up some understeer.
I'm running an old first gen Alta sway bar. Only 2 adjustment holes but I'm on the softest so if I want to dial out the understeer I have another setting.
For now I'm leaving it alone until I can get some auto-x time with this setup.
This does make me think harder about the Pilo rear brace though. Last I looked none were available though, bummer.
Anyway, that's my novice notes on the brace.

Seriously though, one of you track monkeys get one and give it a shot. I'd like to hear more experienced impressions.

 

there has been some other brand rear brace on ebay. the link is on NAM somewhere.

 

in the end, where did you finaly get this and what did you pay.

Sounds interesting, Thanks for the feedback.

 

I ended up getting it from strutbracer anyway.
It's pretty even between getting it from the US distributor or strutbracer. Mainly br=ecause they charge VAT. That pumped the price up badly.
Ended up right at $120 for a $45 part.

 

74lb/ft. All of the 16mm sub-frame bolts have the same torque setting.

 

I've now heard 35nm, 59nm + a half twist and now 74lbs/ft

Based on experience I'm thinking the 59 + twist is the closest.
Need to break out my Bentley. Just remmebered I had it

 

I just did some digging through the Bentley manual, and I see where 59lb/ft came from. However, the "Control Arm bushing carrier to front subframe and body" torque setting is not listed anywhere! Either that or I'm looking right at it and completely missing it.

 

Yep, same here. No torque setting mentioned specific to that part.

 

I ordered online: Here's the email response to my inquiry. Paid $40GBP. Will try to put it on tomorrow.

[size=2]Hi Steve[/size]

[size=2]The Strut Brace only comes in red and the total price including shipping would be 40.00 GBP. We can accept PayPal payments but there would be a 4% surcharge, making the total £41.60.[/size]
[size=2]Or you can pay by Credit card at no extra charge. If you would like to order one of these please submit your order online and ignore any shipping costs. [/size]
[size=2]We will amend the order here with prices as discussed. If you would like to pay via paypal, please enter PAYPAL and any details into the credit card section during checkout.[/size]

[size=2]If you have any further questions please let me know.[/size]
[size=2]Kind Regards,[/size]
[size=2]Marco Mark[/size]
[size=2]Telephone:[/size] [size=2]0870 750 6330[/size] [size=2]Fax:[/size] [size=2]0870 750 6320[/size] [size=2]International:[/size] [size=2]+44 870 750 6330[/size] [size=2]eMail:[/size] [size=2]sales@rallynuts.com[/size] [size=2]Website:[/size] [size=2]http://rallynuts.com[/size][size=2] [/size] [size=2][/size]

 

I did receive it yesterday. The under car brace weighs about a pound I think. The bar fits under my S just fine. Bolts to the Ctrl Arm Bushing holder thingy (tech-speak). Put it on with help of a neighbor (needed his 3/8 to 1/2 adaptor for my torque wrench, and he helped support it as I bolted it down. Could have done it myself, really. Needed torque wrench - long lever arm- to loosen the bolts. Bolts were 5/8" socket size. I retightened them to 50 ft lb.

I have not tested it on the 1 mile trip to the office so I don't know if it does anything.

Per Obehave's report, though, it would seem to stiffen up the front end due to his sensing of more understeer. Sort of like a stiffer front roll bar but cheaper and easier to do.