R60 Please: spare yourself, and don't buy a MINI (especially a Countryman!)
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: Westlake Village, CA
I've meant to post this for awhile but have been starting a new business and busy doesn't even begin to cover it...
That said, my wife discovered that the clutch in our '11 CMS all was slipping AGAIN at 18,000 miles. As MINI of Portland had made it clear that they and MINI USA would only cover it once, I slid it into another marques dealership and traded it before the $3k bill.
What a disappointment... $33k+ for a pretty loaded up car, custom ordered, and when the clutch went at 11k, they treated us like second-class, used-car customers. They had the car for a MONTH while we debated who would cover it. Only my thinly veiled threats of dispersing this info on forums made them cave.
If that had been the only problem, it would have been too much, but we had injectors (2) fail, oil leaks, tensioner problems, the peeling chrome, a rear view mirror that split in half, a 12v socket that disappeared into the abyss, I'm sure I'm omitting something, but in my 20 years of buying cars, from Mitsu and Jeep to Maserati and Porsche, this was hands down the worst experience I have ever had with a dealer and a vehicle.
To top it off, the last time my wife took it in for one of the myriad problems, she accidentally left 2 items in the loaner car. She called to let them know, I spoke with them and confirmed (we live several towns away) and yet one week later, when I showed up to collect them, I was informed that the items had been donated to Goodwill (!?!) and that they were 'sorry about that'. Fuming, I spoke with Rory, the service manager, and told him that I was done, that I wanted out of the vehicle, and that he needed to let 'Jeff', the regional rep know I wanted a buyback. He assured me that he was on my side and would do 'everything in his power'. Needless to say, I never got any sort of resolution.
I am floored that MINI treats its customers this way. I traded the MINI on a $42k RAM 1500 and ordered a 2013 Subaru WRX the same week. It's not like I can't afford clutches, or for that matter, buy new cars... its just that none of them, EVER again, will be a MINI.
I strongly recommend you research alternatives... this is a massively under-engineered and further, poorly supported brand.
Tad, aka
Sir Stirling
PS- MINI USA, if you're reading this, don't reach out to me. WAY too late. :(
That said, my wife discovered that the clutch in our '11 CMS all was slipping AGAIN at 18,000 miles. As MINI of Portland had made it clear that they and MINI USA would only cover it once, I slid it into another marques dealership and traded it before the $3k bill.
What a disappointment... $33k+ for a pretty loaded up car, custom ordered, and when the clutch went at 11k, they treated us like second-class, used-car customers. They had the car for a MONTH while we debated who would cover it. Only my thinly veiled threats of dispersing this info on forums made them cave.
If that had been the only problem, it would have been too much, but we had injectors (2) fail, oil leaks, tensioner problems, the peeling chrome, a rear view mirror that split in half, a 12v socket that disappeared into the abyss, I'm sure I'm omitting something, but in my 20 years of buying cars, from Mitsu and Jeep to Maserati and Porsche, this was hands down the worst experience I have ever had with a dealer and a vehicle.
To top it off, the last time my wife took it in for one of the myriad problems, she accidentally left 2 items in the loaner car. She called to let them know, I spoke with them and confirmed (we live several towns away) and yet one week later, when I showed up to collect them, I was informed that the items had been donated to Goodwill (!?!) and that they were 'sorry about that'. Fuming, I spoke with Rory, the service manager, and told him that I was done, that I wanted out of the vehicle, and that he needed to let 'Jeff', the regional rep know I wanted a buyback. He assured me that he was on my side and would do 'everything in his power'. Needless to say, I never got any sort of resolution.
I am floored that MINI treats its customers this way. I traded the MINI on a $42k RAM 1500 and ordered a 2013 Subaru WRX the same week. It's not like I can't afford clutches, or for that matter, buy new cars... its just that none of them, EVER again, will be a MINI.
I strongly recommend you research alternatives... this is a massively under-engineered and further, poorly supported brand.
Tad, aka
Sir Stirling
PS- MINI USA, if you're reading this, don't reach out to me. WAY too late. :(
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
While there is no question that Mini (nor BMW for that matter) Does not manufacture the most trouble-free vehicles on the road, most owners have not had extraordinary problems with their cars. The ones that have had extreme Issues are the ones that speak out the loudest, of course, and you cannot blame them. We are the original owners of a 10 year old MCS. Other then the notorious power steering pump failure, overall we really have not had that much trouble with this car, and the older it gets, the less problems seem to crop up. My daughter loves our car, and was one of the first people to purchase a CM when they were first available here. She uses her car for business, and really racks up the miles, she now has 63,000. Other then two of the relatively minor issues that has been reported by others here, she's had no trouble with her car. Of course she has a automatic transmission, so she has not been subject to the clutch issues. My other daughter liked her sisters CM so much, that she bought a 2012 for herself. She is at 18k miles, and has had to return to the dealer only once, just for the free oil change. She also has an automatic transmission. Three of my coworkers own '12's, And each of them have had no trouble at all either. Again, each of these cars are automatics, not sticks.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: Keller, TX
I think the Crosstrek looks fantastic. I also think it is fine that some people either do not like MINI or have had some very bad experiences with them. I think it is fine to tell the community why. Sometimes those people are less accepting of problems, have a unique problem, or are creating a problem that doesn't exist.... Either way it will help make the car better in future generations. So go ahead, come on and B**ch about your issues and hopefully MINI will hear the problems and fix them if they hear the same issue enough..... CLUTCH BABY....
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
I also test drove a Crosstrek. I definitely do like the look, and you definitely get a lot for your money versus the CM. But, like what Shark715 said, it is very underpowered. Especially with three or more people in the car. I would hope they would offer a turbocharged engine soon.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
It never hurts to scream loudly when you have been wronged. There was a well documented issue with the power steering pumps on the first generation cars, including our 2003. A large group of owners and former owners have been screaming loudly about this for years, and BMW recently agreed to extend the warranty for these power steering pumps, And to reimburse repair costs for those units that failed within the now extended warranty period. My suspicions are that BMW realized that the NHTSA was going to make them recall the cars after the Canadian Government did the same thing. BMW has told us that we will be getting a $1200 reimbursement check for our repair which was done in 2007 in the next few weeks. But this is not being widely publicized, and I feel bad for those owners and former owners who may never hear about this.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: Triad Area, North Carolina
Just an FYI.
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 2
Nothing but praise for the 3 MINIs I've owned. I hate reading threads of people having such bad luck but realize that this is a forum conducive to airing ones negative issues. It does not represent the brand as a whole.
Flame away!
Flame away!
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
You can press the # key to skip that message btw...
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
I own a cm s fwd model have 12600 miles on it so far not any problems as of yet. Have had it for a year and half. In the manual, the clutch has a 300 mile break in period. It has flat load floor, cold weather package, and rear bench seat.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 341
Likes: 4
From: rancho
ok
I've had a 2011 R56 with NO issues and traded it in for the2013 R60 just because I wanted and needed a little bit bigger vehicle but still wanted the fun of the "MINI" brand. I now have a little over 15,000 miles on my R60 and have NO issues with it either. No matter what brand manufacture every single car maker has some issues with there vehicles at some point, I have friends that have owned Hondas, Toyotas ,Lexus....and they have had horrible experiences even though these manufacture quality ratings are all extremely good, the bottom line is you just have to be the lucky one not to have selected that particular vehicle.
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
My 2012 countryman S Fwd now has 26k and has been great. There were a few minor issues that the dealer NCM took care of with no questions, a bad door speaker, some noise in the steering shaft, a gasket leak on a door weatherstripping and the recall for coolant sensor. 100% reliability at what cost, compared to something actually connected to the road and fun to drive? Anybody with a first model year car got stuck with some big bugs, I think those have been squashed.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
And lucky for BMW all the former owners who paid $1000+ for a new pump won't be likely be calling ASK MINI either. That will save them a few million $. The correct answer if that they should have never been forced to repair the cars at their expense to start with.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
I've had a 2011 R56 with NO issues and traded it in for the2013 R60 just because I wanted and needed a little bit bigger vehicle but still wanted the fun of the "MINI" brand. I now have a little over 15,000 miles on my R60 and have NO issues with it either. No matter what brand manufacture every single car maker has some issues with there vehicles at some point, I have friends that have owned Hondas, Toyotas ,Lexus....and they have had horrible experiences even though these manufacture quality ratings are all extremely good, the bottom line is you just have to be the lucky one not to have selected that particular vehicle.
But when you survey large numbers of owners, you begin to see significant trends, and in Consumers Reports' latest survey Countryman S owners reported the number of serious problems they had with their cars to be an astounding 208% higher than average, which was one of the very worst reports of any model in any category. That's not Consumer Report's opinion, they are merely tabulating the data as reported to them.
Granted what constitutes a "serious" problem is subjective...what I define as a serious problem, you might not. But when you talk about surveys in the quantities they deal with, this "surveying error" tends to disappear as large numbers of Countryman S owners are not going to have a different opinion of what constitutes "serious" versus any other group.
Even with a score like that, there are going to be plenty of owners who have no trouble at all, like you. But with a survey of this size, it's no longer luck. The repair frequency experience of the next thousand owners will tend to be quite predictable.
If anyone thinks that the Countryman S does not have serious frequency of repair problem, a survey result this poor shows they are kidding themselves.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,358
Likes: 1
From: Graham, NC
The fact that Consumer Reports' lets the responders not only self-select but decide for themselves the definitions of terms renders their tabulations statistically irrelevant to the question of actual reliability of any vehicle. And those are only a couple of the many problems with Consumer Reports. If you are going to rely on them to provide an idea about any given auto maker's reliability, you might as well just surf the big Internet forums for that brand and draw your conclusions from that.
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
I've meant to post this for awhile but have been starting a new business and busy doesn't even begin to cover it... That said, my wife discovered that the clutch in our '11 CMS all was slipping AGAIN at 18,000 miles. As MINI of Portland had made it clear that they and MINI USA would only cover it once, I slid it into another marques dealership and traded it before the $3k bill. What a disappointment... $33k+ for a pretty loaded up car, custom ordered, and when the clutch went at 11k, they treated us like second-class, used-car customers. They had the car for a MONTH while we debated who would cover it. Only my thinly veiled threats of dispersing this info on forums made them cave. If that had been the only problem, it would have been too much, but we had injectors (2) fail, oil leaks, tensioner problems, the peeling chrome, a rear view mirror that split in half, a 12v socket that disappeared into the abyss, I'm sure I'm omitting something, but in my 20 years of buying cars, from Mitsu and Jeep to Maserati and Porsche, this was hands down the worst experience I have ever had with a dealer and a vehicle. To top it off, the last time my wife took it in for one of the myriad problems, she accidentally left 2 items in the loaner car. She called to let them know, I spoke with them and confirmed (we live several towns away) and yet one week later, when I showed up to collect them, I was informed that the items had been donated to Goodwill (!?!) and that they were 'sorry about that'. Fuming, I spoke with Rory, the service manager, and told him that I was done, that I wanted out of the vehicle, and that he needed to let 'Jeff', the regional rep know I wanted a buyback. He assured me that he was on my side and would do 'everything in his power'. Needless to say, I never got any sort of resolution. I am floored that MINI treats its customers this way. I traded the MINI on a $42k RAM 1500 and ordered a 2013 Subaru WRX the same week. It's not like I can't afford clutches, or for that matter, buy new cars... its just that none of them, EVER again, will be a MINI. I strongly recommend you research alternatives... this is a massively under-engineered and further, poorly supported brand. Tad, aka Sir Stirling PS- MINI USA, if you're reading this, don't reach out to me. WAY too late. :(
Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
If you can show that the the survey introduces a bias that tilts the errors to the advantage of one brand over the other, then you have something. But there is no evidence of this.
- Mark
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
The fact that Consumer Reports' lets the responders not only self-select but decide for themselves the definitions of terms renders their tabulations statistically irrelevant to the question of actual reliability of any vehicle. And those are only a couple of the many problems with Consumer Reports. If you are going to rely on them to provide an idea about any given auto maker's reliability, you might as well just surf the big Internet forums for that brand and draw your conclusions from that.
But there may be some good news. I have been a very active participant here for many years, and my casual observation is that the CM's seems to be having less problems (and also less severe problems) with each succeeding model year. I can't prove this, but it sure seems like first year owners suffered the most by far, and we seem to be hearing noticeably less problem reports for 2013 owners, and when we do, they seem to be less severe in nature. We own a 2013 and think the build quality is noticeably better than the 2012 we owned before it.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
But there may be some good news. I have been a very active participant here for many years, and my casual observation is that the CM's seems to be having less problems (and also less severe problems) with each succeeding model year. I can't prove this, but it sure seems like first year owners suffered the most by far, and we seem to be hearing noticeably less problem reports for 2013 owners, and when we do, they seem to be less severe in nature. We own a 2013 and think the build quality is noticeably better than the 2012 we owned before it.
.If you drill down into their data, you can clearly see an improvement from 2011 to 2012 as well as an improvement from 2012 to 2013 (and note that it's adjusted for vehicle age and mileage, given that they tend to see older and higher mileage vehicles reporting more problems). Even the 2013's are way off the end of the spectrum in terms of reported problems, but at least there appears to be a distinct improvement. Perhaps we should all be planning to replace our CM's with 2015 models
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
I have no hard data, but I do think that Euro brands, and BMW/Mini in particular, seem to be particularly troublesome in the first year or two. And the Japanese (and to a large extent the Koreans now) do better in this regard.
So why not just always buy cars that have been in production for a long period? Because you tend to get older/stale designs. I try and compromise - don't buy the first year but go for the 2nd or 3rd. This is also when the first significant discounting tends to start occurring at the dealer level. Sometimes a model that is being introduced in one market has been in production for a year or two in another. VW, in particular, likes to stagger their introduction dates and when the Golf Mark7 goes on sale later in 2014 in the US, it will have been in production for well over a year in Europe. This provides a little more reassurance about buying a new model.
Anyone thinking about buying a new F56 Mini? Think long and hard.
- Mark
Last edited by markjenn; Dec 8, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
There is evidence of this with almost all car brands. In fact, I think CR did an article about this one time, averaging all the data and showing how new/heavily-revised models tend to have more problems at the beginning and get better as a model stays in production. It's quite consistent across all brands and it only stands to reason that the mfgs are going to iron out early glitches as a model stays in production. Someone who works in the industry was on this forum once and said the number of changes that occur in the first year of production, if you include all the minor production line optimizations, vendor improvements, etc. - stuff that actually doesn't show up on a spec sheet or cause a part nos change - is literally staggering.
I have no hard data, but I do think that Euro brands, and BMW/Mini in particular, seem to be particularly troublesome in the first year or two. And the Japanese (and to a large extent the Koreans now) do better in this regard.
So why not just always buy cars that have been in production for a long period? Because you tend to get older/stale designs. I try and compromise - don't buy the first year but go for the 2nd or 3rd. This is also when the first significant discounting tends to start occurring at the dealer level. Sometimes a model that is being introduced in one market has been in production for a year or two in another. VW, in particular, likes to stagger their introduction dates and when the Golf Mark7 goes on sale later in 2014 in the US, it will have been in production for well over a year in Europe. This provides a little more reassurance about buying a new model.
Anyone thinking about buying a new F56 Mini? Think long and hard.
- Mark
I have no hard data, but I do think that Euro brands, and BMW/Mini in particular, seem to be particularly troublesome in the first year or two. And the Japanese (and to a large extent the Koreans now) do better in this regard.
So why not just always buy cars that have been in production for a long period? Because you tend to get older/stale designs. I try and compromise - don't buy the first year but go for the 2nd or 3rd. This is also when the first significant discounting tends to start occurring at the dealer level. Sometimes a model that is being introduced in one market has been in production for a year or two in another. VW, in particular, likes to stagger their introduction dates and when the Golf Mark7 goes on sale later in 2014 in the US, it will have been in production for well over a year in Europe. This provides a little more reassurance about buying a new model.
Anyone thinking about buying a new F56 Mini? Think long and hard.
- Mark
This was a limited production car and a group of us from around the world spent the first year trading notes on a forum somewhat like this, while Mercedes solved several issues with the car. But since then it's been relatively trouble free.Your point regarding the F56 is a good one, but I will point out the early second generation Coopers had no where near the number of issues as the early 1st gens. Will the third generation be even better? Hope so. The other good news is that cars in general continue to steadily become more problem free, no matter who the manufacturer.
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Exactly what other problems are there with Consumer Reports? (That's about as vague a statement as can be, and what does that have to do with the tabulations of the surveys?). They are a very valuable resource if you take the time the understand their methodology and use it correctly. Are you saying that the subscribers who are filling out the surveys don't know what they are talking about? Granted the methodology is not perfect, but can you point all of us to a more reliable source for this type of data? So maybe the 208% is actually only 150%, or maybe it's 250%. What does that matter? CM owners are experiencing problems to a much greater degree than just about any other model car. If you take the time to read the forum posts here, it has to be clear to you. Go to a similar forum for just about any other model car and you won't see owners reporting problems to the level you see here. The Consumer Reports survey results are yet another indication of the real situation. But there may be some good news. I have been a very active participant here for many years, and my casual observation is that the CM's seems to be having less problems (and also less severe problems) with each succeeding model year. I can't prove this, but it sure seems like first year owners suffered the most by far, and we seem to be hearing noticeably less problem reports for 2013 owners, and when we do, they seem to be less severe in nature. We own a 2013 and think the build quality is noticeably better than the 2012 we owned before it.
Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring