The brake is on during hill hold engagement. The brake does release with forward movement, but just how does this forward movement occur?? (Remember, The brake is on...)
Something needs to propel the car forward to release the brake. So... you need to feather the clutch initially to get enough torque to overcome the brake. Then, when it releases, the load on the clutch changes completely, which makes it difficult to adjust to.

I hope my explaination is legible. I'm not saying the system is impossible. I'm saying I don't need it, and I wish there was a way to disable it.

Mark

I'm gonna have to go to a hill tonight and just try this over and over, because I seriously have noticed no difference.

When I say I did not know I had it, I mean I did not know I had it for weeks! I drove the car in SF, even did Lombard street, both the hill going up to it and then of course the curvy part going down. And I used the brake/clutch (not the hand brake) just as I always have on a hill, and did not even realize I had "hill holder." I first discovered it sitting in my driveway, which has a slope, and I pushed the clutch in to roll the Mini back and it didn't move. Then after a few seconds it did ... so I stopped and tried it again, and then I started counting ... one one thousand, two one thousand and it goes off. And that's when I realized it was a feature on my car.

But as I say, I drove it for weeks without even knowing it was there, even on hills. I have to go try it tonight on a hill now that we are talking about it just to see if I notice any difference when driving it as if there was no hill holding.

EDIT: Okay, I usually read threads here by just clicking on "new posts," so I had not noted this is a R60 thread. Maybe hill holder works differently in an R56?

It really only comes into play when you try to move away from a stop smoothly, or try to creep forward uphill. If you rev the engine, and release the clutch with higher RPM's, you don't see much of a difference.

I wonder if there is an adjustment for the brake settings that could cause a difference between cars?

Mark

I still think the problem you are seeing is related more to the size of the countryman.

The reason it is not a problem for Neitherfanboy is because he is driving a Cooper S and not a Countryman. The Countryman weighs a lot more and the 1.6L engine works fine with a bit of torque or with the turbo kicked in.

However on a hill, even without hill-assist the Countryman is hard to smoothly get forward momentum without either over-revving or killing the engine.

You can test this by getting on a hill, shifting to neutral, applying the parking brake, taking your foot off the brake pedal. Now wait a couple of seconds and hill assist is no longer working because it disengages. Now try to take off smoothly using the parking brake, and your clutch. You'll have nearly the same issue as with hill assist because the Countryman is under-powered.

I think there are two issues here. The added weight of the CM could be a major difference. When the hill holder is in effect, it doesn't matter how much the car weighs. As the clutch is released, both cars react the same until the brake is released. Then, the CM's added weight would make the change more abrupt, and cause a stall condition easier.
The only other car I ever drove that had the same condition was a 1980 Chrysler K-Car Wagon with a 4-speed manual transmission. Believe it or not, they made a few of these high gas mileage specials to impress the EPA as to getting over 30 MPG. It was WAY underpowered, and over geared. With only 4 gears, and a final drive ratio setup to maximize fuel economy, 1st gear was very tall, and the car was easily stalled on launch. You had to apply a lot of revs to avoid stalling, but once you got used to it, it became pretty easy to drive. The difference is that in that car, I could tell easily when the clutch was catching because there was nothing interfering with the feel. With the CM, I see the same issue with weight and high gearing, but in this car, it is more difficult to feel the clutch engagement since the automatic brake is an on/off condition. On the K-Car, I would have my foot on the brake, let out the clutch until I sensed a small drop in RPM's , and then slowly release the brake to let the clutch take over as I applied more throttle. On the CM, when I go to feather the clutch, there is nothing to sense an RPM drop, and the brake releases completely on it's own. That is when the stall occurs. It could be the small engine doesn't have sufficient torque at low RPM's to avoid a stall in the CM, but it is able to get the lighter coupe moving.

Mark

I personally think its a great feature for drivers that are unsure of their skill or new to the car. It is great for new drivers but on the other hand it gives false sence of ability as well. Either way I'm not bothered.

I like the feature when going forward. I know there is a pause and I adjust accordingly. My issue with the hill assist is when backing up. I was on a hill with cars in front of me and I had to back up. So as I go to back up it felt like I had the ebrake on. So I hesitated, it released, now im going forward. Nerve racking. I could smell the clutch for a few minutes after reversing.

This got me thinking...
In vehicles with a hand lever, I tend to call it a ‘Hand Brake’.
If the vehicle has a foot-style pedal, I refer to it as a ‘parking brake’.
Too funny as it serves the same function.
Sometimes, we really are two folks separated by a common language

Have 30+ years of manual transmissions and my R56 is the first car that has had this feature.
While not too many opportunities to use it in Florida, I do like the assist when stopped on freeway ramps or traveling to more hilly areas.
Have not yet engaged the feature on my wife’s Countryman.

Yeah, that makes a lot a sense. It seems that most of the people that complain about the hill assist own the Countryman and I have no problem with my countryman in a downhill, level or slightly uphill condition. But taking off smoothly in a steeper uphill condition is very difficult.

Since the CM S uses a small turbo engine, turbo lag off idle results in little available torque until the turbine spins up. Perhaps a throttle blip just before moving off would help by spinning up the turbine a bit. Haven't got my CM yet so just speculating.

My 2009 VW TDI has a similar issue; gobs of torque at 1500 RPM, once the turbine spins up, but just off idle in 1st the torque is weak.

A simple change that the factory could make would be to fit a slightly higher 1st gear ratio to the S models.

Here in the Seattle area, lots of steep hills and the feature does allow for a more "relaxed" take off. It's taking my wife (M Roadster) a little longer to get used to it, and she has stalled in embarrassing, if not hazardous, circumstances. Her key is a thousand-one, a thousand-two, GO!

The feature reminds of the discussions on another forum about an automatic safety feature on a double barrel - a.k.a. break-action, shotgun. You don't really want to get used to having it in case you switch to another without.

If there is a good unintended consequence, it is that the driver has to anticipate a little better - watching for the yellow, or the start of the flashing no-crossing pedestrian sign - and anything that increases awareness of traffic flow and what other drivers are doing or not doing is good in my book.

If you pull on the handbrake, does the hill assist release immediately? The comments from dlpruk suggest that hill assist is disabled when the handbrake is used.

AFIK hill-assist releases 2 seconds after the foot brake is released.

So: stop with foot brake>apply hand brake>release foot brake>wait 2 secs>conventional free launch any time after that.

Yes this is my experience. I gave up relying on the HA after many stalls and a few clouds on clutch smoke!
Now I just drive as if no ha is present, so handbrake engaged as I stop on hill and I feather it off as I'm throttling on and clutching off. This is how I've driven manual for 30 years....stalls extremely rare and excellent clutch life on all my previous cars.

I played around with the hill assist some today and realized it releases as soon as you press the accelerator. It made me realize I was hitting the gas a bit too soon in some cases, and it's a lot smoother if you let the clutch out a little bit before hitting the gas.