I've moderated my position on this subject. If you're questioning whether or not you need DSC, you probably do. OTOH, if you read this month's GRM on the latest crop of electronic aids and nod approvingly, you might think otherwise.

I'd echo the previous comment on the intrusiveness of ASC with LSD. If indeed its less intrusive with LSD, its still way too intrusive in IMO.

 

I can vouch for that.

In my case, DSC would have saved me before I ever had to countersteer.

 

[quote=XAlfa]formerAlfanut - Why no more Alfas for you?

Not to go off-topic or anything, but...mostly the cost of repairs just got to me after a while (six in a row).

I'm actually still smitten. Was eyeballing a sad '83 GTV-6 for $2650 at the point my late unlamented Mitsubishi blew a head gasket (my fault) and I decided to redirect the money toward the Mini purchase. It (the Alfa) was not well maintained but did have the 3.0 engine, some suspension mods, and no rust.

But my favorite of all time was my '65 Giulia TI (not Super) sedan. Am still kicking myself for selling.

 

My DCS has kicked in a few times on mountain roads. I don't know if it saved my bacon, but it certainly didn't hurt me. I think there was maybe one time when I thought the DCS was intrusive. I'd get it again.

 

DSC has saved my bacon a few times.

Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder if I didn't have it would I take as many liberties

We'll never know

I would order it again.

 

When it kicks in and drops power, it seems to take FOREVER for the power to come back on. Evry now and then I forget to turn the sucker off, and turn 5 at Thunderhill will "remind" me every time I do forget.

Matt

 

Sounds like you need an Ian module, or MCAW, Matt!

 

I have DSC and GLAD I do

I ran my car in Time Trials at Roebling Road Raceway in Savannnah. Ga ...

IN THE POURING RAIN !!!! I have video to prove it

DSC saved my life, stopped my car from sliding out and hydroplaning at 100+ mph and my times were good .... ORDER IT

 

I may not have lived with it, but I have spent a day with it. My day with it saved me the cost of that darned thing. Very intrusive & to me a waste of money. ASC isn't the same, but it's also included in the DSC package & yep it's very intrusive too.

 

DSC and ASC saved my butt the other day. Without it I would have shunted into a guard rail. Woodside Road was wet and the intervention in a corner was wonderful.

 

I don't know why it was so intrusive for you, the DSC on the 03 and 05 MCS has not been for either of us (and we are rather spirited drivers..). Although the older tech of the ASC is utilized in DSC it does not function the same as ASC alone as it is effected/tempered by how the DSC works. I know you've prob seen this before but just in case anyone is interested here is info on it:

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/dsc.htm

Anyway perhaps more time with it, or on a different car (since I have heard here that there was some programming that might have made some cars act differently) would have changed your .02 on it.

 

One of the things that got me on track in the first place five years ago was buying a 911 with no PSM (Porsche's version of DSC). It scared me. With a car capable sub 5 second 0-60 times, a top end around 170 MPH, with 60% of its weight on the rears and reputation for gobs of oversteer, I wanted PSM, but I got offered such a good deal on a car without it, I couldn't pass it up. Given that a PSM upgrade was essentially undoable, I felt it was prudent to learn a bit more about how to drive.

Since that time, I've tracked that car in sessions in the pouring rain and been passed by no one and taken plenty in the process. Moral: You can go plenty fast and survive without DSC. The best insurance against accidents and incidents isn't on sale at a dealership. It resides between your ear lobes. Go ahead and buy DSC, under some circumstances it certainly can correct for foolishness or poor decision making in the face of the unexpected. But if you've got butt feel and a lick of common sense, you can certainly cope with the realities of the road without it. If you're lacking either, without a doubt buy it. If you'd otherwise become an insurance statistic, heck your saving me money on my premiums too. But whatever you do, don't kid yourself about where safety truly begins and where the real brains in an automobile reside.

 

I have it on my 05 MC and like it. I haven't actually needed it yet, but the flashing light is a nice early warning of wicked conditions in winter. The low temp warning is the first line of defense and the DSC flash is the second, telling me to shift into winter driving mode.

Pete

 

If you EVER drive on compromised surfaces (snow, ice, even rain), get the DSC. You can always turn it off. I suspect not having it will be a liability for resale within a few years since almost all cars above a certain price point will have it.

 

Very well spoken rjmann.

 

You may know how to drive, but surely you must admit that there are a dozen to one, those who THINK they can drive.....(all those people you pass on the track perhaps... ) and the thing that I dont understand is how you guys can carte blanche recomend no DSC to those whom you have no understanding of thier abilities. My points have always been that it bails out the 95% of people who would lose control in the same condition you would pull out of. A parking lot is not trained, 1day at a track is not trained. hundreds of laps in cars that you can lose if you sneeze at a bad time IS trained. IMO...those are the people that can feel the car better than the computer can

 

From some of what I've read here & on other boards many, not all, think that DSC will save them & from the laws of physics. I believe those same people will drive harder than they should in poor conditions with the misguided belief that some computer chips will make it OK. IMHO DSC is at best a placebo.

 

What keeps getting lost here is the orginal question and the fact that DSC is a better technology then ASC, which is what you'd get without the DSC on an MCS. So the fact remains that you can turn either off when you want to, but if you do want to have traction control for those conditions you see fit you will be better off with DSC. Like a radar detector, if it saves you once or twice it has paid for itself.

PS: Considering the recent topics discussed about issues with the warranty it is worth noting that although driving on the track without traction control is a great way to learn, and the place to do it if pushing the edge, it should be mentioned that this can mess with your Mini warranty coverage. It is a great way to learn things about driving for sure, but when people do it they should know the possible rammifications.

 

while I was growing up, my father had the same car... lots of fun. For awhile I had a '87 Milano

 

I'm still not sure if I'm going to need DSC if I'm getting LSD.

I've never had DSC before on a care i've driven, and the few (minis) i test drove with it on it felt like somebody was mashing on the brakes when I least needed it. DSC off was much more fun (albeit a tad more dangerous).

Is DSC something that can be added aftermarket or through the dealer? Or is it OEM only?

Also, do i understand correctly that the MCS comes standard with ACS? If so, what's the difference?

Thanks!

 

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/dsc.htm

Fwiw, as previously stated, we have found DSC to be less abrupt/intrusive then ASC when on, additionaly it is a more advanced system.

 

"It sucks less than the standard system" is a pretty weak argument in favor of plunking down 500 bones, IMHO.

My car (on order) has no DSC, but has an LSD. Coming from motorcycles, I've learned you need to respect your limits. Seems to me knowing an electronic nanny is there to protect you doesn't do much to make you a better driver. In for a penny, in for a pound, I say. You screw up and something more than a flashing light on the IP should be your punishment. Ending up backwards in a ditch is good for the soul.

Off-topic: Ex-Alfa owner here too (GTVs, Spiders, and a '65 Giulia TI). Now I'm down to just a couple of pretty nice Fiats -- unfortunately one "has to" go to make room for the MCS. It's going to be tough...

 

Pretty funny but not what I was saying - I am saying that it interferes less and works better then ASC when you have it on. It doesn't suck at all when it saves your ***, or saves someone elses ***, when otherwise in ego you might overestimate your skills under every circumstance and driving/weather/personal condition (ie tired)... All it takes is one time keeping you out of an accident to make it worthwhile, it doesnt mean you have to have on all the time - calling it silly names that may threaten someone's sense of machismo does nothing to diminish its real usefulness as a tool for safe steet driving when the conditions call for it.

Nope, having good traction control for the appropriate situations does not suck at all - you can keep your 'punishment', with hope you don't punish anyone else in the process of proving yourself on the road.

 

Like I said, respect your limits.

BTW, a track, not the road, is where you test your limits.

 

On my daily driver, DSC has saved me some rubber, AND I think it has made me a better driver-smoother-by "reminding" me to roll onto the gas rather than jump on the accelerator. Since you can turn it off -- and I do now and again -- I think I would order it again, although it would not be the top of my option list.