I don’t know…

But I am sure that with the haphazardness of my setup (not sure if spring heights are the same, never did a corner balance) the detail of seat weight will be lost in my my very, very, very much unlike Max Verstappen driving ability.

I’m just glad all of the wheels are pretty much pointed fore and aft, and the steering wheel is straight when the car is going straight…

 

Max Verstappen at WGI:


In iRacing…

And I am glad to see that he struggles with T8 also.

 

Could the factory have not correctly torqued the bolts holding the front swaybar rubber bushing cap in place?

Since I had the camberplates installed there has been a bit of noise coming from the front of the car. I was figuring it was just the camberplates which are hard mounted. However, I was in the process of prepping Albert for the upcoming trip to VIR and had the car was up in the air, I thought I would check nuts and bolts associated with the front suspension. When I got to those, I found that they all moved with the same amount of torque (according to my calibrated hand) and it didn’t take much to move them. They all easily moved a little less than an 1/8th of turn. Hmmmm Now the bolt head on these is 13mm, which would put them as the same size as those used in the upper mount of the rear shocks on my R56 and they are way tighter.

At any rate, the little bit of tightening that I did seems to have quieted things down. These will need to be checked later to see if they loosen at all.

While putting in the track brake pads I had a real Homer Simpson moment. After 6+ years of owning Albert and changing the brake pads I just realized that the front calipers have a depression right in line with a raised area on the brake pad backing plate, both of which would facilitate compressing the brake caliper pistons >>>


JCW caliper with a depression for compressing the pistons


Pliers with a bit of plastic tube to keep from damaging the coating on the caliper

Ok, not the best picture, but at the bottom of it shows the pliers squeezing the pistons back.

DOH!

The Gen 3 JCW has an auxiliary radiator that vents into the left front wheel well. When I was checking things over, I found tire rubber slag that was imbedded in the louvers. When I looked more closely I found that all of the louvers in that column were damaged. The plastic seems to have protected the radiator, but I am not sure for how long.


Tire rubber slag damage on the vent louvers for the auxiliary radiator.

Well, Albert appears to be ready to do battle on one of the most iconic tracks in the States. Really looking forward to this one.

 

It seems that it is always something with these cars; especially ones that are pushed to the limits out on the track. While one might think they “push” their car out on the street, it is nothing like the “push” they get when out on the track.

I have been pondering something that I saw when I was changing out the brakes for VIR. The adjusting collar on the front shocks looked to be too high. As I was loading up Albert for the trip to VIR, I took a good look at the car from the side. Was the front higher than the rear? Going back through this thread I found that I had set the ride height at 22.75” both front and real. I unloaded the car and measured the rear at 22.25 and the front was 23. The shop had raised the front. Ugh! But why is the rear low.

Took everything out of the car to do the measurements. Smart. So, no reason for the shop to have done anything with the rears. So, the half inch deltas is what? Spring sag? I hope not. So what is the story in the front.

I never liked how the spring collar on the front shocks is locked into place. It is a plastic collar with a set screw. No one does that on any other shock I have seen. They all have a locking collar. As you would have guessed, the set screws on both shocks are stripped. And I found the collars easy to rotate. Very little preload in the springs. Odd, I seem to recall there being more preload than that.

Also, looking closely at the exposed threads on the shocks, it appears that the collars are about 3/4” higher than they were originally. So maybe a 1/2” for sag (or more) in the front springs. I reset the height to 22.75”, which is a little high compared to the rears, but I didn’t want to monkey the rears.

So a bit of disappoint with the JCW Pro suspension. It still feels fine. But the springs are a disappointment if they have sagged that much.

I wonder if the new Dinan setup is any good compared to these? Yes, I have read the thread about them. Or, should I just opt for a set of the Ohlins… at 3x the price. A lot extra to pay to get the adjusters at the bottom of the shocks…

Or just leave it alone?

Off to VIR. Well, that started yesterday…

 

If I remember correctly, the JCW Pro suspension is made by KW? (or was it Eibach...) KW uses those little set screws for collar locking. I never liked that design...

 

Its KW, logo is right under the JCW logo on the shock. They dont sell they system individual parts direct ala carte. Only through MINI. I talked to them and bilsetin did the same with the GP2 stock suspension. Valved to that car and not an exact match of the aftersales version.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/33502361197/





33532289592 is the part number on the spring and you cant get it on kits own.

 

Thanks for the info.

I have the Bilstein B8s on my R56 with the JCW red springs. I feel the Bilsteins ride better than these KW. However, I feel that the JCW Pro on my F56s handles better. Ya, apple/oranges comparison. But I do tend to favor Bilsteins. No real rational for it, though. And I don’t know anything about the spring differences between the two cars. So, I kind of wish MINI had used Bilsteins the Pro setup.

 

As for VIR…

2 days to drive down from upstate NY. Stopped in Martinsburg WV to stay over night. Good place to stop. About 7 hrs there and another 5-1/2 from there to VIR. I take a lot of breaks along the way, stop to eat, gas, etc. As for gas, Albert was more thirsty than I expected.

I have travelled to Matinsburg many times in years past. There was alway traffic, but I was surprised by how much the traffic has increased since that time. And trucks galore! The worst were Fed Ex trucks. Their speedometer must read 2 mph slow. They would always be about that much faster than the other trucks and would get in the passing lane, taking “hours” to pass those other trucks. And road gators along the road side every few feet. I would have thought that with improvements in tire technology over the years, that sort of thing would be a thing of the past. Or at least greatly reduced. Don’t need one of those coming off and through my windshield, like I saw many years ago that happened to a car. Why aren’t TPMS required for all tires on trucks? Those gators are deadly…

Are the speed limits in Virginia like the Pirates Code? More of a guideline rather than a rule? 70mph on the highways, with the general traffic going 80 to 90….

As it was I was on sections of highway that were almost unrideable. Ka-thump, Ka-thump, Ka-thump, Ka-thump, Ka-thump. Albert isn’t a 60s Caddy smooth riding machine …. Other sections, recently paved and smooth. Multiple sections of traffic that would alternate between standstill and 90. Oh, what fun….

Saw the world’s largest short wave radio antenna along side of I78. And the name of the huge brewery just off that highway has changed from Yuengling to Samual Adams. Interesting.

Then there was the unfortunate motorcycle driver sitting in the median and not too far was a mangled cycle… Ugh! People were with him and he was sitting up. So hopefully not too bad off??? Saw the fire trucks coming from the other direction a few minutes later.

This was the never ending journey. Especially the last third or so. Off the main highway and onto Virginia state roads, including a section of the Skyline Parkway (hope I got that right).

The beauty in this County can be breath taking

Beautiful and interesting country side. Scenic, Yes! Get you to where you want to be, quickly? Not so much. After a while I was wondering if I was hearing my kids in the car when I realized I was thinking: Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

I did get there, with time to spare. Splitting up the drive into 2 days was more of an intelligent thing than I thought I was capable of. But, I did…

What I will say about what I found when I got there was an iconic race track that should be on everyone’s bucket list and a supporting set of facilities that are very much undersold in their efforts to advertise the place as a whole.


Looking out my room window at Turn 5 of the track

And there is a charming southern style dinner restaurant, a full service repair shop and race stuff store right on the premises.

More to come…

 

Virginia International Raceway - One of the few iconic, old school race tracks here in the States. You know that when you drive it. It has a flow, a rhythm to it that few other tracks have. It is a natural terrain track that belays the name of “road course”.

Just standing on the porch of the place I was staying at, overlooking T5 of the track, I was thinking I want to be this guy when I grow up and retire:

Early morning mowing at VIR

Oh, wait a minute, I am a driver on this track No mowing lawns, but it is a thought. It is a “park” like setting much like Lime Rock Park. It also has great support facilities in the way of a full service shop, a take out restaurant for breakfast and lunch, a really nice race store, a really nice dinner restaurant and lodging facilities around the track.

In some respects VIR is much like Watkins Glen. In other respects it is nothing like WGI. If you have driven both, you know what I mean. For those who have never driven at VIR, both tracks have a lot of charm. A good driver will make similar lap times. There are frustrating turns on this track, same as there are at WGI. How one makes their time at each track is totally different. And of course the layouts are totally different. But that is the fun of it.

I was afford the opportunity to run in the Friday part of the event. Friday, like how GVC runs their Fridays, is generally closed to everyone except for the signed off Group S drivers and instructors. I was allowed on Friday with an instructor. I spent the day Friday getting the lay of the track. The first time out was as passenger in his new Z06 Corvette. From the passenger seat one gets perspective that I never got from watching videos. There are some turns that one needs that perspective to avoid one’s natural instinct to do something that is wrong because the track doesn’t do what you might think it is going to do. Ok, a bit of a mouthful but hopefully you get my point.

Saturday was a bit of a zoo with a lot of really fast cars. Less than a joyful day of a constant stream of point bys, with little time to my own.

Sunday was much better with the event having thinned out. By the end of the day I was chasing a Porsche GT3 for several laps until the driver realized he should be faster than a MINI Cooper…

How about staying in a place with a view of the race track?

I could have picked a worse place to stay
This was taken from the track while doing a literal track walk, all 3.2 miles on foot.


Dinner elegance at the track
And the food was good too. Great ambiance inside.

The Porsches were rentals. If you have to ask how much, you couldn’t afford it.

Albert hanging out, at first
And they were loud, so Albert moved locations.

I didn’t really find a dominant car type at this track. There were several Gen 1 MINIs, the most I have seen at a track event in a long time.

My instructor’s little red Corvette

I did a literal track walk. A lot to learn from doing that. The track is uphill the whole way around. A constant uphill spiral that goes on forever. Like a merry-go-round it is that way until you get off. Or that is the way it feels driving here. There is a “drop off” at the end of a lap that get you back to the start and climbing uphill again. In some respects, this is much like the way I feel about driving at WGI.


Killer curbs

As you can see, the paved surface is really coarse stone and the curbs are killer harsh. Unless one’s car is specifically setup for this track, these things will throw a car. And don’t think of taking any short cuts as in many places the leading edge of these monsters is exposed and, as at least one driver found out, they will bend a wheel… And going on them and or to the grass side can throw a car in an undesirable direction. Or at least you will lose a filling or 2.


How to keep from flat spotting tires overnight. Hang it from the pop up sun shade



The dry sump oiling system for the BMW V10 in the front of this M3
What? BMW never put their V10 in their M3? Well someone did…

I had a grand time. TarHeels chapter of BMWCCA didn’t let me down. A lot of good and respectful drivers and top notch instruction. I did learn a lot and got a pretty good understanding of what the track is about. I’m glad I made the trip. Would I do it again? 7 days of driving in a row? I would need an incentive.

 

As for Albert on the track at VIR, he did me proud. The camber plates worked well. Not having driven the track without them, I am hard pressed to say that the car handled better with them than without them. However, I suspect that I would have suffered without them, though, with a lot more push. But I will say tire wear was hugely improved from what I have seen in the past. It was pretty even across the tires, most importantly, across the left front which would have been the tire of concern if I had not installed the plates.

In some respects VIR is like LRP in how it treats the tires. It is a clockwise track with several aggressive right turns and one aggressive left turn. VIR T1 is much like Big Bend at LRP, with the car leaning on that front left tire, forever. The difference is this turn at VIR opens up as you drive around it, whereas Big Bend gets tighter. Then there is the T4 - T5 complex which is much like the esses (T3 - T4) at LRP; left then right. Difference is, the left at VIR is a very slow turn that begs to be over driven. The Oak Tree turn at VIR is again very much like Big Bend. Just like Big Bend, it gets tighter as you do the 180 and begs to be over driven in the 2nd half. Then, at the end of the back straight, there is another right that is tight and slow. So, plenty of right turns to brutalize that left front tire. As it was, -2 deg of camber on Albert was adequate to keep from shredding that tire.

On the highway the camberplates made Albert a little darty. Not bad, but noticeable over the stock camber. It got a little better with speed, which there was plenty of.

Another way driving this track is like LRP is how stiff the car needs to be. I have found that the setup of the car for LRP is better when set stiffer than WGI. Albert, with its basically stock suspension, is a little soft for LRP. Similarly, it is a little soft for VIR. This is especially noticeable going up through the Climbing Esses where it feels like it is suspended by a couple of bungee cords in those quick left, right, left, right transitions. While controllable, the car never really settled between each turn, not in the way it settles going through the esses at WGI. With adjustable shocks, I would have added a click or two to the stiffness for VIR over WGI. But, Albert is what he is. Not adjustable.

I mentioned before that lap times are similar between VIR and WGI. Out on the track, I also found top speeds on the back straight and on the front straight to be similar. That was a bit of a “Hmmmmm” observation. Albert does get a little light when cresting the rise on the back straight at VIR and the car then wanders a bit coming down the back side of that rise. A little disconcerting at 125+ mph (speedo; no data). Needs aero mods? A big huge splitter up front might help.

As for the Pagid brake pad - they are awesome! I believe I got 8 days out of the set I started the event with. There were 2 - 3 day events at WGI and 2 days at VIR. On day 3 at VIR, the brakes were starting to give warning signs that they should be replaced. There is still about a 1/3 of the pads left when I took them out, but given how thin the pads are when new (15mm including the 1/8” backing plate), a third left is getting down there. I could have gotten the rest of day 3 out of them, but why bother when they are easy to replace. The used ones will remain as spares. Other than being worn, the pads look great. I would estimate that VIR is about as hard on brakes as is WGI, which is to say, pretty brutal. So having great brake pads is a must.

Over the course of the 3 days I ran with the traction control on and, as I experienced at WGI, it did, over time, start flashing at me. This happen mostly on the front straight. No real interference, unlike what I had the last time at WGI, thankfully. I just let it be. A bit of a safety net. Then coming home on the exit ramp off the Thruway, it stated flashing in the bend. I would say I was going quickly, but not tire-squealingly fast. So that was a I am not sure what is triggering it and it hasn’t happened with my Conti DW street tires on that same exit curve. Now why would the tires make a difference? A bit of a wiggle in the rear of the car from the worn rubber slag pickup on the rear tires? That would be my guess at this point.

And now Albert is sitting in the driveway waiting to be put back into “street mode” for use for a little while until he is put into “winter mode” and hiding in the garage happy to let the Wrangler do those duties.

 

@NC TRACKRAT Hope you get this. Thanks for helping to convince me to go to VIR. If curious about how I made out, I sent you a PM about it and the above several post review my adventure. I do hope to have a video to post. Still going through everything…

 

Glad you had a great time and good weather. VIR can really be a handful in the wet. Sorry I had to miss this one but another hobby of mine took precedence. Hopefully, your excellent review above will encourage others to come run with Tarheel Chapter. Sometimes "Mr. Blah" will instruct with us and there are always a number of other MINI drivers. We have pretty capable mechanic/drivers who are always willing to help should the occasion arise. I've been driving at VIR since it re-opened in 2001. We were the very first club to run an event there and, after all these years, it never gets old.

 

I'm grinning at your accounts of VIR, and delighted at the report on the camber for Albert. Thanks for the tales.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

We just found out Pittrace (old Beaverun), the track were all the local MINI club people started and I tracked 2 times a year is closing end of the year. Its also the host to the MINI Cooper events for the PVGP that i have gone to almost ever year since 2006.

 

I heard about the demise of Pitt Race when I was at VIR. My understanding was that the owners were “tired” and wanted to sell. Bought by a Co that wants to build a data center on the land….

As for me, here is a video from VIR. This is the 3rd day and the track crowd has eased up and I am able to but together some decent lap. I’m still working out shift and braking points, and, in particular a line out of T9 and through T10. Probably the highest consequence area on the track; at least for me. Look for me giving a point by to a white Porsche GT3 and chasing it for several laps.


Sorry about the framing. I still getting use to the quarks of the GoPro.

 

One more video. This is from day 2 of the event, Saturday. The video above was taken on day 3. This session included Advanced and A-Plus (above advanced) students and instructors and had quite a few cars in it. This provided me with a good lesson in traffic management. Remember I am still working on the line, brake points and shift points. The video in the above post was taken in day 3 and I had much more of that sort of thing figured out.

Day 2 with traffic:


The thing that this session really pointed out to me was that it was important to have been able to get into the Friday part of the event with an instructor. Friday had a lot fewer cars and the cars were grouped fast and faster, so it was much easier to manage learning the track and traffic than Saturday would have been. On Saturday it would have been hard to manage learning the track and manage. traffic at the same time.

 

Why Jon! i do believe you done said a wirty dord sir! It cracked me up.

No further comment...

Cheers,

Charlie

 

I think there were 2…

 

If I may be so bold, and so damned curious.

I see you selecting 6th on the front straight - what was your speed entering the T1 braking zone?

And of course, where d'ye reckon for lap times? Do I have to time them myself from the vids? ;-)

Thanks.

Cheers,

Me

 

I have put Albert back into street mode. Changed out the front rotors and pad to the street version of each. Wheels/tires have been changed to the crap-tastic Hankooks AS RFTs on the boat anchor OEM wheels. I’ve got to wear those things out at some point. They are getting there.

A few more observations…
- The Pagid pads have a bit of top to bottom taper to them. Not unexpected. They show what I think are signs that I could have done a better job of bedding them in. I did take them out on the street to do this, but I think that wasn’t enough to get them fully conformed to the rotors. That all aside, they look great.
- The right front tire has a bit of a wedge wear on the inside quarter. Not unexpected. I believe this is a result of having more camber and that inside edge is pretty much the only part of the tire in contact with the pavement in a hard right turn. This is exacerbated by the increased camber and the wheel spin allowed by the eDLC (electronic LSD, piece of crap - no mechanical LSD planned at this point).
- the side loading of the left front tire was enough to compress the rubber bushings and push the top of that tire into the wheel well liner at the top of the wheel arch. Camber should have helped to prevent that. Not sure why it didn’t. Polly bushings for the front? Maybe.

Lastly, when driving out of T4 and the Oak Tree turns (the 2 slowest turns on the track) I thought about downshifting into 2nd, but never tried it though. However, another way to get a little extra torque for this track would be to use 215-40x17 tires. Those would be a lot smaller in diameter than the 215-45 tires I was using and would provide a bit more pull out of those 2 turns in 3rd gear, which I was using. A thought.

 

I didn’t really pay attention to speed on the front straight, but it wasn’t as high as originally I thought. Really didn’t need 6th, but I was trying it to see how it felt. I shifted into 5th sooner (based on the length of the straight) than I would have on the front straight at WGI, so I had a lot of track at VIR to run in that gear. Because of that I thought 6th might be worth a try. It was easier on the engine, for what that is worth.

Sorry no data. I would guess a 2:28 - 2:25 by the end of day 3. Let me know what you get off the video

 

That would have been my guess, as my 5th tops at 130+, and I doubted that was happening - we have power, but we are NOT aerodynamic so those 120+ numbers do take a while.

In the first video at around 13:50 you are following a white BMW, and you have a lap free from interference all the way around, until when you return to the front straight a black BMW passes. That lap was a 2:23 by my shaky timing.

As mentioned elsewhere - boring due to smoothness, NOT slowness! ;-)

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Excellent traffic management. It can really get busy, especially with a lot of fast cars out there. Granted, different cars but that extra shift into 6th isn't worth it. Suggestions: Work on getting your shifts done in straight line braking before entry into the turn. At turn-in before #3, use all the track. Try to get your right tire as close to the green/yellow as possible and commit to apex exactly at the end of the green/yellow. At #7, don't crab in too early, then, after turn-in, stay a little deeper left before committing to the climbing esses. It will give you a straighter shot. I think you did #9 to #10 just fine. Consistency is everything, especially there. The white GT3 is a friend of mine. He just got it, "graduating" from an M2. First experience with a rear engine car.

 

So you are saying I should get an engine tune before thinking of using 6th?

That time is quicker than I expected. I had a target in my mind of hitting the time I have done at WGI. Where did that idea come from, you ask? A guy whom I have seen at WGI and has posted video from both WGI and VIR (screen name gojoe244 if interested). An exceptionally fast driver with sub-2 minute times at both places in a Porsche GT3. His time at VIR was a couple of seconds faster than WGI. I figured, being an excellent driver myself , that I could do a similar difference in times between WGI and VIR. So, goal met.

Thank you..

6th gear - you are right.

Your suggestions - agreed.

My observation about VIR - It is a track with a high reliance on timing all over the place. Braking (eg: going into T3, T4), shifting (eg: going into T10, I’m not counting T1 see above), Turn-in points (eg: T3, T7, Oak Tree T12). Recognize that the “eg” are only examples, but they are particular areas I noticed and was concentrating on. The other thing that I found was that VIR is a track requiring a high confidence factor. There are places on the track that I found that little little to define the edge of the track and the eyes are quickly looking away from those areas (eg: the turn-ins for T3, T5, T12). So, for example, for T3 I was working my way to the right and working on my timing for braking and matching that to the turn-in point.

I will note that Cy was excellent for me to have in the car. After my ride with him we worked out how my first session would go. Basically, he let me go on my own with him just observing for a few lap. Of course this was with the proviso to say something to keep me out of any real trouble. Then after a few laps he started to work on particular areas. I was then on my own to work on the track for a bit, after which he got back in the car to see how i had progressed. This was pretty much how the 3 days went. So, what you are seeing is a work in progress that I felt really good about. And, for sure, I am always looking for more tidbits to work on.

Your friend was quite right in being cautions. I did see his confidence build through the session. Good for him. Not sure I would want to tackle a switch from front engine to rear engine car.

Maybe I’ll have the opportunity to working on your suggestions in the future.

 

Excellent observations! You were indeed fortunate to have Cy sit right seat with you. I've known him for years and he's just plain solid. Not overly talkative or excitable but knows VIR as few do. I know it was a long trip for you but I have a feeling you got your money's worth. Getting VIR down pat in 3 days is a handful and you did it!