Drivetrain Transmission fluid change...how to?
Transmission fluid change...how to?
I would like to switch to Redline MTL but don't know the first thing about changing the tranny fluid in a MCS with LSD. Any help would be appreciated.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
I'll probably be doing it this weekend as well. There are two bolts on the tranny: 1 for draining and 1 for filling. Undo the top (fill) one first just in case you can't get it off. When re-filling, put the bottom (drain) bolt in, fill up until it starts flowing out of the top bolt, and then put the top bolt back on.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,705
Likes: 3
From: Chattanooga, TN
The plugs are easy to find.
Also get about two feet of tubing that is compatable with a funnel. This way you can fill from above under the bonnet. Just slip the tube down through the bay and into the fill hole. Put a drain pan below the fill hole and pour the MTL in. Much easyer than trying to pump the MTL in from below.
Also get about two feet of tubing that is compatable with a funnel. This way you can fill from above under the bonnet. Just slip the tube down through the bay and into the fill hole. Put a drain pan below the fill hole and pour the MTL in. Much easyer than trying to pump the MTL in from below.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,673
Likes: 2
From: Marsala, Sicily
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
I don't have an lsd of cvt. If you have a Cooper, then you need special atf. I'm not sure if Redline MTL has friction modifers for lsd's but I don't have to worry about it. I do believe MT-90 does contain those modifiers though so that will work in MINIs with an lsd.
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 261
Likes: 70
From: Silicon Valley
MTL for LSD?
You could use MT-90, but it would be thicker (and stiffer shifting) than stock.
The "friction modifiers" are definitely required for plate-type LSDs, but there are no clutch plates in the Mini's LSD. I believe the Mini uses a viscous-type LSD.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
Well I got it changed today. Those allen bolts were tight! I snaked a 1/2" ID (5/8 OD ? ) clear tube 3' long through from just left of the airbox. The tube fits perfectly into the fill hole. It took just shy of 2 quarts. I didn't have enough room down there to see so I just filled it up with 2 quarts and let the extra drain after I pulled the tube out.
The old fluid was brownish but not black. It also had a sweet smell, not the sulfur smell of GL-5 oil. The Redline also had the sweet smell and was bright red.
I'm not hard on the syncro's so I wasn't expecting much of a difference but I was pleasantly surprised. It definitely goes into gear noticeably smoother. Downshifting into first is also easier and can be done at a higher speed. Overall, I'm happy with the MTL.
The old fluid was brownish but not black. It also had a sweet smell, not the sulfur smell of GL-5 oil. The Redline also had the sweet smell and was bright red.
I'm not hard on the syncro's so I wasn't expecting much of a difference but I was pleasantly surprised. It definitely goes into gear noticeably smoother. Downshifting into first is also easier and can be done at a higher speed. Overall, I'm happy with the MTL.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
I decided that I'd replace the manual transmission fluid / oil. After much reading on my local board and NAM, I decided to use Redline MTL (I bought from Moss but I spotted it on a Pep Boys or AutoZone shelf the other day). Redline MTL has the correct weight and certification to fit the MINI factory specifications. Calls into Redline say that MTL is the proper oil for cars equipped with LSD as well.
My old looked like light-colored Hershey's syrup (imagine a milk-chocolate version of Hershey's) and didn't smell too bad but I'm happier knowing that fresh fluid is in there and the shifts are smoother. It's also easier to get into reverse.
My instructions are for my '06 MCS, 6-speed manual Getrag transmission w/ LSD.
To prepare for the install I purchased some new tools... any excuse for new tools is a good excuse! I got a set of hex-head drivers for my 3/8 ratchet (I didn't know the size when I started, but you will definatley need an 8mm hex socket for a ratchet... do not try and do this with an allen wrench because the factory torqued the bolts on there way, WAY too tightly and there isn't much clearance in there... the flexability of the ratchet to be used at many different angles (instead of only 6 angles of an allen wrench) was very important. I also purchased a small funnel and a 3 foot length of clear tubing (1/2 outer diameter) and permanently stretched and mounted the tubing to the bottom of the funnel.
Step #1: Fill your kitchen sink with hot water (not boiling, but my water heater is set to high... you want it hot enough that you woudn't want to hold your hand in there for very long). Put 2 bottles of Redline MTL in to warm.
Step #2: To ensure you get as much sludge and old oil out, take the car out for a 5-10 minute drive (not just idling in the driveway) to warm up the engine and the gearbox.
Step #3: Put the car in gear, crank up on the parking brake and put the front-end (both sides) of the car up on jack stands as far as it will go. If you have wheel chocks, using them behind the rear wheels would be good.
Step #4: The gearbox is about 1 foot behind the front lower grill of the car... fairly close to the engine oil drain plug and about 6-10 inches toward the left front wheel. There are 2 allen head screws there... both are 8mm (top hole is the 'fill hole' the bottom one is the 'drain hole'). Use the ratchet with a hex socket on it to loosen the TOP plug. Some oil may dribble out when you loosen this bolt, so be prepared. The bolt was WAY over torqued from the factory, so I put the ratchet on the bolt and got out from underneath the car before applying that much force to get the bolt loose. If I were to shake the car off of the jackstands, the wheels would catch the car before my arm was crushed, but my fat head would probably be too large.
The reason for removing the top bolt first is for safety... If you remove the bottom one and drain the oil, just to find out that the top one won't come loose, you are now looking at having your car towed somewhere to get the bolt loose. If you find out that the top one is stuck before draining the oil, you can drive it somewhere to have the work done... much easier! I'd love to take credit for thinking this one up, but I learned it here on NAM.
Step #5: Remove the lower bolt. If you warmed the transmission properly, the oil will come gushing out. There is 1.7 L of oil in the transmission of the manual MCS, so be prepared with a large catch pan.
Step #6: Wait a good 10-15 minutes to let all of the oil drain properly.
Step #7: Clean the lower plug and the seating surface and reinstall the lower plug. Kapps says that the proper torque setting on these bolts is 43Nm (32 ft-lbtorque), but my torque wrench wasn't going to fit under there. I put the bolt in very firmly with my 8mm hex bit on my 3/8 ratchet.
Step #8: Insert a small dowel into the free end of the hose/funnel assembly so that the free end of the hose is now straight (it makes it easier to feed through the engine compartment). Feed the free end of the hose behind the engine (in the triangle between the oil fill, the coolant tank and the brake fluid resivoir) so that it comes out next to the top hole (the fill hole) of the gearbox. Insert the hose into the top hole... I found that if you start high with the hose pointing toward the ground, it would slip in nicely and hold itself in place.
Step #9: Wedge the funnel into a secure location in the engine bay and get your MTL oil out of the sink where it has been warming. If you decide to use cold oil (it was 50 deg. in my garage when I first tried using a cold bottle of oil) it will take over 1 hour to feed 1 bottle of oil through the 1/2 O.D. hose. If the bottle is warm, it will only take 10 minutes or so per bottle.
Step #10: The transmission is full when oil starts dribbling back out the fill hole. Each bottle of MTL is 0.96 Liters and the MCS needs 1.7L, so you will use all but maybe 1/10 of the oil in each bottle. According to my Haynes Guide, a MC needs a full 2L. Pull out the hose, drain the remaining oil from the hose into your catch pan. Clean the fill plug and the seating area around the fill plug hole and reinstall the plug.
Step #11: Remove the funnel/hose assembly. Clean up any oil on the underside of the car (so you can properly detect drips later, if any) and carefully lower the car back to the ground.
Step #12: Dispose of the oil in an environmentally safe manner.
If my cold oil hadn't taken so long to fill, I could have done the whole thing in 1.5 hours my first time. It took me just over 3 hours to do... just because I was waiting for the oil to drain down the fill hose. It's probably a 45 minute job now that I've done it once and I don't have to waste my time with cold oil or trying to figure out the 'dowel in the end of the hose' thing to get the hose snaked through the engine bay.
I can say that shifts are a smidge smoother... not a huge change, but I can feel the difference. The self-centering mechanism (what pulls the stick from 2nd to the area just under third gear) works more quickly once the car is warm and it's also much easier to shift into reverse.
My old looked like light-colored Hershey's syrup (imagine a milk-chocolate version of Hershey's) and didn't smell too bad but I'm happier knowing that fresh fluid is in there and the shifts are smoother. It's also easier to get into reverse.
My instructions are for my '06 MCS, 6-speed manual Getrag transmission w/ LSD.
To prepare for the install I purchased some new tools... any excuse for new tools is a good excuse! I got a set of hex-head drivers for my 3/8 ratchet (I didn't know the size when I started, but you will definatley need an 8mm hex socket for a ratchet... do not try and do this with an allen wrench because the factory torqued the bolts on there way, WAY too tightly and there isn't much clearance in there... the flexability of the ratchet to be used at many different angles (instead of only 6 angles of an allen wrench) was very important. I also purchased a small funnel and a 3 foot length of clear tubing (1/2 outer diameter) and permanently stretched and mounted the tubing to the bottom of the funnel.
Step #1: Fill your kitchen sink with hot water (not boiling, but my water heater is set to high... you want it hot enough that you woudn't want to hold your hand in there for very long). Put 2 bottles of Redline MTL in to warm.
Step #2: To ensure you get as much sludge and old oil out, take the car out for a 5-10 minute drive (not just idling in the driveway) to warm up the engine and the gearbox.
Step #3: Put the car in gear, crank up on the parking brake and put the front-end (both sides) of the car up on jack stands as far as it will go. If you have wheel chocks, using them behind the rear wheels would be good.
Step #4: The gearbox is about 1 foot behind the front lower grill of the car... fairly close to the engine oil drain plug and about 6-10 inches toward the left front wheel. There are 2 allen head screws there... both are 8mm (top hole is the 'fill hole' the bottom one is the 'drain hole'). Use the ratchet with a hex socket on it to loosen the TOP plug. Some oil may dribble out when you loosen this bolt, so be prepared. The bolt was WAY over torqued from the factory, so I put the ratchet on the bolt and got out from underneath the car before applying that much force to get the bolt loose. If I were to shake the car off of the jackstands, the wheels would catch the car before my arm was crushed, but my fat head would probably be too large.
The reason for removing the top bolt first is for safety... If you remove the bottom one and drain the oil, just to find out that the top one won't come loose, you are now looking at having your car towed somewhere to get the bolt loose. If you find out that the top one is stuck before draining the oil, you can drive it somewhere to have the work done... much easier! I'd love to take credit for thinking this one up, but I learned it here on NAM.
Step #5: Remove the lower bolt. If you warmed the transmission properly, the oil will come gushing out. There is 1.7 L of oil in the transmission of the manual MCS, so be prepared with a large catch pan.
Step #6: Wait a good 10-15 minutes to let all of the oil drain properly.
Step #7: Clean the lower plug and the seating surface and reinstall the lower plug. Kapps says that the proper torque setting on these bolts is 43Nm (32 ft-lbtorque), but my torque wrench wasn't going to fit under there. I put the bolt in very firmly with my 8mm hex bit on my 3/8 ratchet.
Step #8: Insert a small dowel into the free end of the hose/funnel assembly so that the free end of the hose is now straight (it makes it easier to feed through the engine compartment). Feed the free end of the hose behind the engine (in the triangle between the oil fill, the coolant tank and the brake fluid resivoir) so that it comes out next to the top hole (the fill hole) of the gearbox. Insert the hose into the top hole... I found that if you start high with the hose pointing toward the ground, it would slip in nicely and hold itself in place.
Step #9: Wedge the funnel into a secure location in the engine bay and get your MTL oil out of the sink where it has been warming. If you decide to use cold oil (it was 50 deg. in my garage when I first tried using a cold bottle of oil) it will take over 1 hour to feed 1 bottle of oil through the 1/2 O.D. hose. If the bottle is warm, it will only take 10 minutes or so per bottle.
Step #10: The transmission is full when oil starts dribbling back out the fill hole. Each bottle of MTL is 0.96 Liters and the MCS needs 1.7L, so you will use all but maybe 1/10 of the oil in each bottle. According to my Haynes Guide, a MC needs a full 2L. Pull out the hose, drain the remaining oil from the hose into your catch pan. Clean the fill plug and the seating area around the fill plug hole and reinstall the plug.
Step #11: Remove the funnel/hose assembly. Clean up any oil on the underside of the car (so you can properly detect drips later, if any) and carefully lower the car back to the ground.
Step #12: Dispose of the oil in an environmentally safe manner.
I can say that shifts are a smidge smoother... not a huge change, but I can feel the difference. The self-centering mechanism (what pulls the stick from 2nd to the area just under third gear) works more quickly once the car is warm and it's also much easier to shift into reverse.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
I agree with agranger about getting the 8mm allen that fits into a 3/8" socket instead of one of those L-shaped thingy's. I had a heck of a time getting the bolts off with the L. I also recommend breaking them loose before you jack the MINI up for safety reasons. I have a Craftsman 3/8" drive torque wrench that fit perfectly with the allen socket to torque them back down. The tightening torque for both bolts are 43Nm (32 ft-lb).
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
Doh!
I'm gonna go back and edit my post to make sure someone doesn't over-torque the plugs (though they HAVE to be over-torqued from the factory)!
Good catch. Thanks!
Also a great idea. I'm running a set of lowering springs and there is no way I'm getting anywhere near those plugs, however, without the aid of a jack or a lift. Before doing any heavy turning on a car that's in the air, I recommend getting yourself and anyone else out of harm's way as much as is possible. Based on an on-line recommendation, I had originally taken off the driver's side wheel to give me a better look at the transmission, but I put it back on before breaking these plugs free as it would save my arm should the car fall off the jack stands. There's no point in taking needless risk with 2000+ lbs of car above your body unless you have to.
I'm gonna go back and edit my post to make sure someone doesn't over-torque the plugs (though they HAVE to be over-torqued from the factory)!
Good catch. Thanks!
Also a great idea. I'm running a set of lowering springs and there is no way I'm getting anywhere near those plugs, however, without the aid of a jack or a lift. Before doing any heavy turning on a car that's in the air, I recommend getting yourself and anyone else out of harm's way as much as is possible. Based on an on-line recommendation, I had originally taken off the driver's side wheel to give me a better look at the transmission, but I put it back on before breaking these plugs free as it would save my arm should the car fall off the jack stands. There's no point in taking needless risk with 2000+ lbs of car above your body unless you have to.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
) about the noise (apparently a number of LSD-equipped transmissions were changed under warranty before they figured this out). If you experience any noise with the Redline fluid, you could always add their friction modifier.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
Update:
The first hose I had was 3/8 OD (outer diameter)... not a 3/8 ID (inner diameter)... meaning that I was using a much smaller hose. Get the 3/8 ID (aka 1/2 OD). This larger hose will fit into the fill hole nicely and the oil flows much more easily. We were able to run 2 bottles of room-temperature MTL through the hose in 10 minutes. Much better!
Also: The fill and drain plugs for the MCS (the 2 that I've seen - an '05 and an '06) had the allen wrench head on them and they both pointed towards the passenger side of the car.
I did this same change on a MC this weekend and the fill and drain plugs were on the other side of the car (pointed towards the driver's side) and were much more easily seen if you take the driver's side front wheel off first. We didn't even have to snake the hose through the engine bay... we just ran it inside the drivers side front wheel well and into the fill hole. The plugs on the MC were standard bolts (I can't remember the size) that we used a regular 3/8 ratchet and socket on to remove and replace.
The first hose I had was 3/8 OD (outer diameter)... not a 3/8 ID (inner diameter)... meaning that I was using a much smaller hose. Get the 3/8 ID (aka 1/2 OD). This larger hose will fit into the fill hole nicely and the oil flows much more easily. We were able to run 2 bottles of room-temperature MTL through the hose in 10 minutes. Much better!
Also: The fill and drain plugs for the MCS (the 2 that I've seen - an '05 and an '06) had the allen wrench head on them and they both pointed towards the passenger side of the car.
I did this same change on a MC this weekend and the fill and drain plugs were on the other side of the car (pointed towards the driver's side) and were much more easily seen if you take the driver's side front wheel off first. We didn't even have to snake the hose through the engine bay... we just ran it inside the drivers side front wheel well and into the fill hole. The plugs on the MC were standard bolts (I can't remember the size) that we used a regular 3/8 ratchet and socket on to remove and replace.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 459
Likes: 6
From: Renton, Washington
The OEM LSD unit is definitely a friction type, and there are plenty of complaints about groaning noises unless a friction modifier is used. In fact there is a TSB about using the newer, quieter OEM fluid if the customer complains (groans?) about the noise (apparently a number of LSD-equipped transmissions were changed under warranty before they figured this out). If you experience any noise with the Redline fluid, you could always add their friction modifier.
) about the noise (apparently a number of LSD-equipped transmissions were changed under warranty before they figured this out). If you experience any noise with the Redline fluid, you could always add their friction modifier.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
The gearbox is almost directly underneath the intercooler... just on the bottom of the engine instead of the top. It's slightly more on the driver's side of the car (in the US) than in the middle. You can easily see the driveaxel enter it. Look for 2 bolts (the plugs), the drain plug almost at the very bottom, and the fill plug about 6-8 inches up from there.
On my '06 MCS, the plugs are black and accept a 8mm allen wrench (but as I said above, you really need the 8mm hex adaptor for a ratchet). They face the center of the car, so if you lift the front end of the car and slide under the center of front bumper, on your back, (so that you could easily see the oil drain plug), you will easily spot these two plugs.
On the '03 MC that I worked on this weekend, the plugs had a silver/gold tint to them (and had magnetic caps on the threaded ends to capture metal filings). They were on the driver's side of the transmission, so it's much easier to see and work on them if you remove the driver's side wheel. They have a normal metric bolt head on them, so you won't need the special 8mm hex driver.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
And BTW a Quaife is mechanically just a gear-driven Torsen with some clutch plates added for preload, which is why cars that come with Quaifes (like the SRT-4) actually use friction modifier...
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
I got a report back from the '03 MC that we changed fluid on last weekend. She had this done, new brake pads, a brake fluid flush and we upgraded her MC swaybar (non sport suspension) to a MCS swaybar. Of all those changes, she reported that the transmission fluid replacement made the most difference in day-to-day driving... much more slick and fluid.
Her MC had around 60k miles on it and there were little magnetic ends on both the drain and fill plug. There were tons of filings on 'em, but no big particles... They looked fiberous when on the magnet, but they turned to a smooth metal paste when removed from the magnet.