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It's nice to see that MINIUSA has responded to this and is releasing a fix. Now, what I'd like to really see if a fix that impacts more than 1% of the MINI population, I suspect the 05 MCS + JCW is a pretty small subset of your customers. Finally, I just hope this "fix" doesn't introduce 3 new problems.
Actually, I think MINI should release specifics of errata for each version of the S/W so the customer can understand the tradeoffs. This happened for Intel with their processors, they now release all the data, and everyone is happy. For instance, it appears the emissions problem fix introduced the rough idle and the SAFETY ISSUE on hesitation. There are also reports of better gas mileage on the higway -- this is something I called my dealer about it as it was so pronounced for me, more than 5 MPG delta!
Let's hope the fix for the rest of us is in the pipeline and will be released soon, before someone gets hurt in one of these cars.
For instance, it appears the emissions problem fix introduced the rough idle and the SAFETY ISSUE on hesitation. There are also reports of better gas mileage on the higway -- this is something I called my dealer about it as it was so pronounced for me, more than 5 MPG delta!
Does your 5MPG delta come from the indash readout, or do you 'do the math' when you fill your tank? I filled mine today, and the dash said 29.6 MPG, while doing the math yielded a little under 24MPG.
The dash readout has always been high, but it is my impression that the software update just might have increased that gap, too. That does not make sense, but what part of this problem does?
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It was a beautiful day.
The sun beat down.
I had the radio on.
I was driving.
I have 2004 S pre owned, bought it with 4500 miles, have put on 3000 miles
in 4 months using the car at least 4 days a week, and have not had a problem with starting, even if left 4-5 days she starts with 1 turn of the key.
I think this problem could be related to the MCSa going into a limp/safe mode on cold starts. It does the same thing when you pull out and it starts stumbling and sounds like it's going to stall, but then the computer intervenes and shuts everything down. It doesn't stall but the engine runs rough and sputters. It's happening with all MCSa in hot, humid areas. If you restart it again afterwards then everything runs fine. MINIUSA has many unhappy customers with this problem right now. At least in the manual you can force it to continue driving, but in the auto it only lets you go 5mph after it happens.
My '02 MCS is doin this as well only after sitting for at least 4 hours. It realy sucks, I am worried of what kind of wear this is putting on the starter.......
if its just an ECU problem why wont MINIUSA fix it?
You don't get it - it's not a 'problem' - to them at least. Every dealer response has been - nothing we can do...and they are right. The issue is with the latest version of the ECU software. All we can do is wait for the next revision - that will probablybe for some other issue in the first place - and HOPE this will be addressed.
Mine has done it as long as I've owned it. I can deal with the stall while sitting still. I do NOT find it at all acceptable or safe however, that when I try to enter on to my busy arterial street coming out of my neighborhood in the morning, I nearly get rear ended from the on coming traffic as my car bucks and stumbles and misses.
Not cool. Not for a new, modern car. No excuses.
Also... I don't find it acceptable that my car does not always have a stable idle. It even rumbles and misses on random occasions while sitting at traffic lights in the middle of a driving day.
1st 2003 Cooper - Car would shudder upon starting, sometimes stall, usually would eventually level out. Lights would come on during the "shudder'. Told dealer about the issue. They looked at me like I was insane and told me they "could not replicate the issue."
2nd 2003 Cooper (1st was totaled) - Ditto. Car shudders and stalls. Stalls MUCH more than the previous one. Hasn't been updated with current software.
Nothing new to add, I'm just adding myself to the list.
I think my MCSa has a similar issue that you have mentioned. Its a rural pain to start. Mostly from a cold start and many times from a warm one. I took my car to be tinted and it sat for 2 hours and when they went to move it they thought there was a problem as the started ran and ran to turn over the engine. The only thing I find that helps (sometimes) is to turn the key to position 2 for 1-2second (prime fuel pump) and then turn it over.
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MINI owner from APR2004 - DEC2006, now going through a transition in my life.
DC Metro MINIs, MMC #30, Randy Pulley Install #604, MOTORING ID: QUIK060 BlogGoMotoring.com
I do NOT find it at all acceptable or safe however, that when I try to enter on to my busy arterial street coming out of my neighborhood in the morning, I nearly get rear ended from the on coming traffic as my car bucks and stumbles and misses.
Not cool. Not for a new, modern car. No excuses.
Exactly! I replied to OmToast before I'd read this (my bad). Thanks, JCW Driver!
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05MCS | CR/B, LSD, Sport/Prem/ColdWthr Pkgs, CR Int Panels & Shftr Knob, Blk Grille, HK Audio, iPod & Aux Jacks, Cockpit Chrono Pack, Center Armrest, Euro Parcel Shelf, Ian's Auto-up Circuit, S2000 Stubby, 35/20 Tint, LaminX Smoked Tails, Blk Repeaters, B SSW Inferno wheels, Falken/Ziex Ze 512 tires
In the past month, my '03 MCS has started doing this every morning. Crank and it won't catch. Crank again and it catches every time. It also runs a little rough at first as well. A couple years ago, I experienced similar behavior when I went on a trip in Maine in August, 2003. Back then, I had an earlier version of DME firmware (v.32 -vs- v.36) and different mods, etc. The one thing in common between the then and now is that, in Maine, I filled up with Sunoco fuel and my last tank was Sunoco (my commute is short so that tank may have lasted me most of the month). I can't imagine the brand of fuel making such a big difference, but I just filled up with Lukoil 93. I'll see if it has any effect.
BTW, I discovered that it doesn't matter how long I crank it, it won't start on the first try. But, it always starts on the second try. So, I have just gotten into the habit of cranking it very quickly, then turning the key back off, then starting the car. Fix yer cold start behavior, MINI!
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"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
Might as well throw my name on this list too. All started around mid-May, when the summer blend was released.
Although I will now that it' s finally above 55 degrees (hell it's only June) the start-up issue hasn't been as noticible. Last week with rain wind and temps in the 40's the problem was much worse.
Obviously BMW is NOT a software company, but you'd think they would have a vendor who is.
All I get from the dealer is 'summer gas, please stop using premium and use mid grade'. done that it is still there. Not as bad. one local motorer has started using regular. In a MCS, that is terrible.
Not exactly what I want to do. Thanks MINI! You have disappointed me on this one.
I also got some crap about MINI would do a recall if it a genuine issue. My foot they will!
In the past month, my '03 MCS has started doing this every morning. Crank and it won't catch. Crank again and it catches every time. It also runs a little rough at first as well. A couple years ago, I experienced similar behavior when I went on a trip in Maine in August, 2003. Back then, I had an earlier version of DME firmware (v.32 -vs- v.36) and different mods, etc. The one thing in common between the then and now is that, in Maine, I filled up with Sunoco fuel and my last tank was Sunoco (my commute is short so that tank may have lasted me most of the month). I can't imagine the brand of fuel making such a big difference, but I just filled up with Lukoil 93. I'll see if it has any effect.
BTW, I discovered that it doesn't matter how long I crank it, it won't start on the first try. But, it always starts on the second try. So, I have just gotten into the habit of cranking it very quickly, then turning the key back off, then starting the car. Fix yer cold start behavior, MINI!
Andy,
I think your having a bit of a different problem then this thread is discussing. Your problem is cranking it over in the first place, most people in this thread are having problems with stumbling once the car is cranked over on cold start. And some of those people are having problems with their eventually stalling during that start at idle.
Just to add to my previous post, This afternoon i went to my 05' MCS with 1075 mi. on it. Started the car and a a few seconds later the idle dropped and recovered. But when it went to do the second drop in idle the car actually stalled..... I will be setting an appointment soon to have the car checked out by service even though i know there is nothing they can do. But the more complaints they get the more BMW will hear about it and hopefully it'll be fixed.
A little disapointing but the MINI is not the first to do this. Alot of small cars at least these days, especially ones tuned for performance like the MCS have been having ALOT of issues with software tuning.
As i said previously, alot of SVT Focus Owners have been battling years of new ECU updates from Ford with no end in site to little issue's from the company. Just recently though a company called SCT came out with an ECU flash that is basically a godsend. Everybody who has installed it finally has their cars running like it should have from the factory along with better fuel mileage and power! And thats on an NA engine.
I know there are a few other performance cars out there that have been having alot of issue's with ECU programming. It seems like the car companies are having alot of trouble having the computer control SO many different situations all these cars have to live through.
I'm simply trying to point out that the cold start and the stumble are 2 entirely different beasts and should not be referred to interchangeably. I'm also trying to tell you that fixing one may land you the other, so watch what you wish for.
If you have to start your car twice in the morning, that's annoying. I know, because my 03 MCS has had this problem in the past and now in the present thanks to the emissions upgrade, I assume. So, annoying: yes. Dangerous: not at all.
Now if your car is lurching and bucking about, that's also a whole 'nuther bag of nuts. That may be the stumble. That is not only HORRIFICALLY annoying, it's got the added no-cost bonus of being dangerous.
These two are related (in my mind - and in the mids of others) because 2 years ago I was annoyed about having to start my (excellently driveable)car twice every morning. Eventually, a terminal number of people complained about this and MINI released a software fix, of which I happily partook.
I then WOUND UP with the stumble and have spent just about every single day for the past two years wishing that I would have shut my can about starting the car twice in the morning.
I am NOT saying that this is correct. I DO NOT believe that any car, regardless of price, should have such a sniggling difficulty as the cold start issue. What I AM SAYING is thus:
Fix at your own risk, and if it's not affecting the driveablility of your vehicle, perhaps wait a good long time before you jump on any software patches.
It's wrong and shady and wicked of MINI, yes. But I would MUCH rather have my "old", pre-cold-start-fix car back than be right.
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"You got a great car... Yeah what's wrong with it today?"
Can't say I have noticed a huge difference between winter & summer. It happened daily now like it did in the winter. Thinking about it though the problem seems a little more severe (i.e closer to actually stalling out) now then in the winter.
In my area the gas choices are Regular - 87 Octane, Mid-Grade - 89 Octane, and Premium is either 92 or 93 (Citgo vs Marathon station). I rarely find the recommended 91 Octane in Ohio and to be honest do not see a difference between 92 & 93...
The dealers (3 different ones to date - Texas, and 2 in Ohio) have never mentioned the "gas" issue. I agree with earlier posts - its unacceptable to have a car that acts this way. I had a Beretta GT (first model year) when I graduated college and it stalled and revved (sp?) erratically and I took it to lemon law arbitration. Chevy blamed it on detergent additives and recommended detergent free (at that time) Amoco. It did not fix the problem - the dealer ended up taking the car back and getting me into another car at minimal expense. More their decision than Chevy - they had sold 5 or 6 cars to my family....
Makes me wonder if my recent order for a new MCSa was a good decision, even though I love my MC.
As far as MiniUSA is concerned - I bet they do nothing, zip, nada, squat etc.... In my last phone call follow-up to my service visit I gave them a long list of disappointments - both from me and my dad (he owns at '03 MC). They promised a call from someone "up the food chain" to address my concerns - its been months and I am still waiting. This is the second promise of concern and follow-up after unacceptable service results - btw I gave my dealer a and Mini a or .
I think your having a bit of a different problem then this thread is discussing. Your problem is cranking it over in the first place, most people in this thread are having problems with stumbling once the car is cranked over on cold start. And some of those people are having problems with their eventually stalling during that start at idle.
nope, this is exactly what happens to me too.won't start the first time-always starts the second time, always stumbles at first launch.
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nope, this is exactly what happens to me too.won't start the first time-always starts the second time, always stumbles at first launch.
Same here. Not every time though. I do what Andy does quick try and then the 2nd one works all the time. I was wondering if it was a fuel system pressure problem or air in the sytem builds up and need the two time to pressurizez. (just guessing, don't know how the fuel system actually works).
Paul
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Any car is only as fast as the driver. All the HP in the world can't change that.
nope, this is exactly what happens to me too.won't start the first time-always starts the second time, always stumbles at first launch.
But you don't understand that is not the topic of this thread.... The thread is for people who have no problem starting the car the first time but then it suddently stumbles twice before warming up and sometimes stalls.
Not being able to start on the first turn of the key is something different than what this thread is about.
My MINI just came over on the BOHEME. I have not taken delivery yet.
I have emailed my MA.
I will not take delivery of the car with this problem.
Not to worry, nightbirdflyin. It does not happen on all vehicles. I would guess that you have a better than 95% chance that you will have no problem.:smile:
Enjoy it when you get it. There is nothing else like it.
If they start the car at all before you get there to pick it up, you won't know if it does it or not anyway. It only happens after it sits, usualyl overnight, and only does it to me when it's cooler. It never does it leaving work, only in the morning.
My 05 MC Cabrio sat for 2 weeks while I was on vacation & it started without a hitch.
In a MCS, that is terrible.
and Mini a 
Hybrid Mode
