View Poll Results: Who has...
Never had the cold-start problem
91
34.34%
Had cold-start problem and been permanently fixed with tensioner replacement.
52
19.62%
Had cold-start problem and been repeatedly fixed with tensioner replacements.
27
10.19%
Had cold-start problem and been permanently fixed with service bulletin SIM110207
51
19.25%
Had cold-start problem and still experience issues even after full SIM110207 service applied
55
20.75%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 265. You may not vote on this poll
Cold Start issues...
#101
#102
Bought Used MCS 2007 36,000 miles
Noticed death rattle in the morning and took to the dealer
Bought in to have SIM110207 work done.
On the way home from dealer had the Vacuum Pump Seized causing exhaust cam gear to sheer off and caused values to be bent. They removed the cylinder head found that Piston #3 had snapped two of the values, causing damage to the cylinder head and piston. After estimates to replace piston and cylinder head with all necessary parts they replaced the engine at no cost to me. Good to go ever since!
Noticed death rattle in the morning and took to the dealer
Bought in to have SIM110207 work done.
On the way home from dealer had the Vacuum Pump Seized causing exhaust cam gear to sheer off and caused values to be bent. They removed the cylinder head found that Piston #3 had snapped two of the values, causing damage to the cylinder head and piston. After estimates to replace piston and cylinder head with all necessary parts they replaced the engine at no cost to me. Good to go ever since!
#103
In wake of the nasty rattle, I dropped my MINI off at the dealership this past Saturday for the diagnostic: low oil and bad tensioner. They kept it until yesterday and were able to get it back to normal operation. Didn't have the entire bulletin done, just the tensioner and rails. Rattle's gone, but I won't contribute to the poll until I get a few more miles to validate. I'm definitely happy to have my baby again after garaging it for two weeks (couldn't get an appt.).
I'll update in a month or two. Thanks for all the input guys 'n' gals.
I'll update in a month or two. Thanks for all the input guys 'n' gals.
#105
Again, so far so good; she sounds awesome and all seems well. Had to shell out a few hundo for the repair as I'm not under warranty, but it was worth it. Hope that helps.
#107
That's about the length of time the rattle sounded off; maybe 2-3 seconds. Dismissal is futile...probably wanna get it in soon.
#109
I have been itching my head, trying to understand why they the longer tensioner was not there from the beginning...
My explanation: the tensioner has a softer spring than normal, which is backed up by varying oil-pressure. Tension therefore varies with oil-pressurre, depending on the engine load. In the process to transfer the tension from the tensioner to the chain, the guide rails are pressed on the chain, causing parasitic friction which consumes both engine power and fuel.
By varying the pressure excerted on the chain, parasitic friction is minimised leading to reduced fuel consumption. But they either got overzealous with minimizing parasitic losses and/or did not consider chain manufacturing tolerances, which should have been stricter for such a design.
Just my 2 cents....
Last edited by alexs3d2; 10-12-2011 at 01:17 PM. Reason: legibility
#110
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The rattle for the first 2-3 secondas when starting the engine is considered normal. This has to do with the oil-pressure which reinforces the spring in the chain tensioner. With that being set, when I changed my tensioner to the longer one it did make the sound go away (the 2-3 seconds one).
I have been itching my head, trying to understand why they the longer tensioner was not there from the beginning...
My explanation: the tensioner has a softer spring than normal, which is backed up by varying oil-pressure. Tension therefore varies with oil-pressurre, depending on the engine load. In the process to transfer the tension from the tensioner to the chain, the guide rails are pressed on the chain, causing parasitic friction which consumes both engine power and fuel.
By varying the pressure excerted on the chain, parasitic friction is minimised leading to reduced fuel consumption. But they either got overzealous with minimizing parasitic losses and/or did not consider chain manufacturing tolerances, which should have been stricter for such a design.
Just my 2 cents....
I have been itching my head, trying to understand why they the longer tensioner was not there from the beginning...
My explanation: the tensioner has a softer spring than normal, which is backed up by varying oil-pressure. Tension therefore varies with oil-pressurre, depending on the engine load. In the process to transfer the tension from the tensioner to the chain, the guide rails are pressed on the chain, causing parasitic friction which consumes both engine power and fuel.
By varying the pressure excerted on the chain, parasitic friction is minimised leading to reduced fuel consumption. But they either got overzealous with minimizing parasitic losses and/or did not consider chain manufacturing tolerances, which should have been stricter for such a design.
Just my 2 cents....
With this being said, will the dealership tell me its normal?
I would like my tensioner changed before my warranty runs out.
#111
@alexs, yeah that's what I had surmised as well; I pawned it off as normal, but it steadily got louder and more abrasive-sounding over a short period of time insofar as to indicate something was wrong; with all due respect, the sound I was describing, even before it was constant, was not normal. I agree, since the repair (a cool 24 hours now) I've noticed the sound is gone at startup. Good idea on the changes too, as that would explain the lack of the rattle @ startup. Thanks for the info!
@smalls, I've heard there are ways to replicate this for the dealership, perhaps in this or other threads. Until mine was constant it most certainly had to be a cold-start after sitting in the garage overnight.
PS alex, PM me on your thoughts of the FISCON plz and thx!
@smalls, I've heard there are ways to replicate this for the dealership, perhaps in this or other threads. Until mine was constant it most certainly had to be a cold-start after sitting in the garage overnight.
PS alex, PM me on your thoughts of the FISCON plz and thx!
Last edited by HammyR56S; 10-12-2011 at 01:46 PM. Reason: PS...
#112
A one-off short shrill will be heard within the first two seconds of engine operation. This is an
inherent noise caused by the first regulation cycle of the engine oil pump. This is normal operation
and no parts should be replaced.
inherent noise caused by the first regulation cycle of the engine oil pump. This is normal operation
and no parts should be replaced.
#113
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/do...11036-3222.pdf
Mini and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have announced an investigation into certain Cooper S models after reports of engine fires on at least 12 vehicles, five of which resulted in a total loss. Interestingly enough, Bloomberg reports that in eight of those cases, the fires occurred while the vehicles were parked and turned off.
At this point, the investigation covers around 36,000 2007 and 2008 model year Mini Cooper S models. A spokesperson with NHTSA said that the complaints indicate a growing trend and that most of the reports have occurred within the last year.
Neither Mini nor the automaker's parent company, BMW, have commented on the investigation at this time.
It's hot no?
#114
Having lived in Southern California for the first 3 years of my Mini's life, I have not experienced this problem. Now that I moved home to Colorado, this winter I am now hearing this rattle which everybody is talking about. Clearly I would like to dealership in Denver to have a look/see, but I am WAY out of warranty (85,000+). Does anybody know if their fix(es) are warranty only, or will they charge me MINI hourly rates of one arm & leg? :-p
#115
Having lived in Southern California for the first 3 years of my Mini's life, I have not experienced this problem. Now that I moved home to Colorado, this winter I am now hearing this rattle which everybody is talking about. Clearly I would like to dealership in Denver to have a look/see, but I am WAY out of warranty (85,000+). Does anybody know if their fix(es) are warranty only, or will they charge me MINI hourly rates of one arm & leg? :-p
#116
For the last two weeks, on mornings colder than 50 F, my CooperS stalls a few seconds after starting. The engine jumps to about 1500rpm and then decreases to a stall. I can start the car by depressing the accelerator to 2000rpm for a few seconds after which the engine settles at maybe 800rpm. Takes me a few tries and seems to be getting worse. Is this related to the tensioner or is it something else? What would you recommend?
#118
For the last two weeks, on mornings colder than 50 F, my CooperS stalls a few seconds after starting. The engine jumps to about 1500rpm and then decreases to a stall. I can start the car by depressing the accelerator to 2000rpm for a few seconds after which the engine settles at maybe 800rpm. Takes me a few tries and seems to be getting worse. Is this related to the tensioner or is it something else? What would you recommend?
#119
My 2019 MCS was really loud on cold starts for the first minute. Two timing chain bulletin repairs about a year apart reduced but did not eliminate the noise. I just bought a 2012 MCS and it has a rough idle and bogs on a cold start. Three times it's stalled, twice backing out of a parking space and once pulling out into traffic. The dealer says it's a common problem but no known solution...but it'll be winter soon!
On another subject I've sent two e-mails to MiniUSA with no response. They are fun, but I'm starting to wonder if I made a mistake since my car is my daily transportation.
On another subject I've sent two e-mails to MiniUSA with no response. They are fun, but I'm starting to wonder if I made a mistake since my car is my daily transportation.
#120
I like the coolant sensor idea, but wouldn't that flag the check engine light or be read out on the computer. I brought it to a mechanic who read the error codes, the only reported error was a low battery which could have been the result of the hard starts. Could a 4yo battery be responsible? Seems wacky, but several people have recommend that I put in a new battery.
#121
My 07 MCS developed the death rattle finally after 62,600 miles. Dropped it off at Mini of Pensacola Sunday at 11am, they checked it this morning to confirm my belief and YES, it is the chain tensioner issue.
Going to replace everything, chain, guide, sprocket, seals, new tension bolt, etc. Cost of $1700.00 but my SA said he's turning it into Mini for them to pay $1200 and me to pay $500. Car is out of warranty and guess what? I didn't even have to ask if they'd try and get Mini to pay for part, they volunteered it. Great staff at Mini of Pensacola.
Now I'm a very happy camper. Car will be done tomorrow.
Going to replace everything, chain, guide, sprocket, seals, new tension bolt, etc. Cost of $1700.00 but my SA said he's turning it into Mini for them to pay $1200 and me to pay $500. Car is out of warranty and guess what? I didn't even have to ask if they'd try and get Mini to pay for part, they volunteered it. Great staff at Mini of Pensacola.
Now I'm a very happy camper. Car will be done tomorrow.
#122
My 07 MCS developed the death rattle finally after 62,600 miles. Dropped it off at Mini of Pensacola Sunday at 11am, they checked it this morning to confirm my belief and YES, it is the chain tensioner issue.
Going to replace everything, chain, guide, sprocket, seals, new tension bolt, etc. Cost of $1700.00 but my SA said he's turning it into Mini for them to pay $1200 and me to pay $500. Car is out of warranty and guess what? I didn't even have to ask if they'd try and get Mini to pay for part, they volunteered it. Great staff at Mini of Pensacola.
Now I'm a very happy camper. Car will be done tomorrow.
Going to replace everything, chain, guide, sprocket, seals, new tension bolt, etc. Cost of $1700.00 but my SA said he's turning it into Mini for them to pay $1200 and me to pay $500. Car is out of warranty and guess what? I didn't even have to ask if they'd try and get Mini to pay for part, they volunteered it. Great staff at Mini of Pensacola.
Now I'm a very happy camper. Car will be done tomorrow.
#123
My 2019 MCS was really loud on cold starts for the first minute. Two timing chain bulletin repairs about a year apart reduced but did not eliminate the noise. I just bought a 2012 MCS and it has a rough idle and bogs on a cold start. Three times it's stalled, twice backing out of a parking space and once pulling out into traffic. The dealer says it's a common problem but no known solution...but it'll be winter soon!
Edit... saw your earlier post:
For the last two weeks, on mornings colder than 50 F, my CooperS stalls a few seconds after starting. The engine jumps to about 1500rpm and then decreases to a stall. I can start the car by depressing the accelerator to 2000rpm for a few seconds after which the engine settles at maybe 800rpm. Takes me a few tries and seems to be getting worse. Is this related to the tensioner or is it something else? What would you recommend?
Last edited by walk0080; 12-12-2011 at 01:26 PM.
#124
My tensioner issue didn't affect my idle at all. Just noisy like rocks bouncing around in the left part of the upper engine. It did it this past Friday and Saturday morning but not Sunday morning. It did it this morning which was good (I suppose) so that my MA could actually hear it. I suppose if a tensioner gets bad enough or possibly looses some pulley teeth it could affect the idle. My SA said they haven't had any 2010-2011 cars with the tensioner issue. If you're not sure bring it in and have 'em listen to it. If left and chain, pulley, or guide breaks you're gonna suck some valves and whatever else.
#125
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Unbeilable!! The Wife took her '08 S in because of the awful rattling sound. (35k) After speaking to the service advisor he stated that the engine was 1.5qts low and that caused the sound. I am sorry, the car was just in for service 5mo ago, if it was low on oil wouldn't they have mentioned that? He stated that the cars "drink" a lot of oil!? My tuned 135i doesn't drink any thing near that much ...and I am running at 18+psi??? Also, the mini needs brakes, right after the service contract is over. Hmmmmm No biggie I can put some better aftermarket ones on, but really, they could of said something. Purchased 2 cars from them and was soon to be a 3rd.
After watching the youtube videos it sounds like the real problem is the SIM110207 fix. It has never been changed, surprised they did not even mention this. Car is still under warranty so I am going to demand it be replaced. I think they just stated the oil as being low to cover up the real issue. Does any one else have a problem w/ oil?
I would like to see BMW dump Mini, or at least put a BMW motor in the car. If this is a know problem then they should cover the repairs for 100kmi like the BMW HPFP and injectors. We have always been big Mini fans, but after reading this thread not anymore. Ok, so it might not be Mini's fault that the French motor has design flaws, but what is Mini going to do about it? Has the new belt driven design cured the problem?
After watching the youtube videos it sounds like the real problem is the SIM110207 fix. It has never been changed, surprised they did not even mention this. Car is still under warranty so I am going to demand it be replaced. I think they just stated the oil as being low to cover up the real issue. Does any one else have a problem w/ oil?
I would like to see BMW dump Mini, or at least put a BMW motor in the car. If this is a know problem then they should cover the repairs for 100kmi like the BMW HPFP and injectors. We have always been big Mini fans, but after reading this thread not anymore. Ok, so it might not be Mini's fault that the French motor has design flaws, but what is Mini going to do about it? Has the new belt driven design cured the problem?