I have a 2010 MCS convertible with 8,200 that has been nothing but a headache...

It has had a misfiring motor starting in January-service light came on so I took it to the shop.. They blamed me for putting low quality gas in it (not true)! They put fuel additive in it and told me it was fixed-carbon build up-2 days in the shop. After 1/2 the fuel burnt through the car it started misfiring again... I took the car back to the dealership. This time they kept it for 28 days!!! This time they replaced the spark plugs, injectors, Vanos solenoid valve, high pressure pump, intake manifold and pressure hose assm. They also changed the oil and checked the timing chain. After the 28 days I told them I needed my car back!! I thought a month was extreem. When I got the car back It ran well but smelled of gas when I started it. It ran well for 1 week- Again it started misfiring and it is back in the shop again (3rd time since January 17th). The just called me tonight and told that they are changing the timing chain and Vanos chain. I think that this is crazy seeing as the car is so new-I never had this much trouble with my old car-and I payed 1/2 the money for it..

At this point I am tired of my car being at the shop-mini dealership.. any thoughts? I don't think they know what is wrong with the car- and what direction to go in..help...

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...151303&theater

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine

Prince is the codename for a family of modern automobile straight-4 engines developed jointly by BMW and PSA Peugeot Citroën. It is a compact engine family of 1.4–1.6 L in displacement and includes most modern features including gasoline direct injection and variable valve timing.
For BMW, the engines replace the Tritec engine family in the Mini. PSA has started to use the Prince family in place of their TU family — the Peugeot 207 being the first car to receive it.
The engines’ components will be produced by PSA at their Douvrin, France, facility, with Mini engine construction at Hams Hall in Birmingham, England. The joint venture was announced on 23 July 2002 with the first engines produced in 2005. The Prince engine project is not related to the Prince Motor Company.
In late 2006, an extension of the cooperation between the two groups was announced,[1] promising new four cylinder engines, without further details.
On 29 September 2010, it was announced[2][3] that the 1.6T version of the Prince engine would be supplied from 2012 to Saab for use in forthcoming models, primarily the 9-3.
In Geneva auto show 2011 , Saab unveiled their latest concept vehicle Saab PhoeniX with BMW Prince Engine 1.6T 200hp

 

I talked to my SA this morning after having them keep the car overnight so they can check on the loud ruckus the engine makes in the morning.

There is a bulletin from Mini stating on the 2011 this is normal. It states that the wastegate is being held open during cold start for emissions purposes. I had a feeling that it was not the normal cold start issue we keep seeing as it goes away in around 1-2min after start.

 

Yep, and the death rattle is a much different, louder, more obtrusive, and embarrassing noise than the HPFP tapping and the turbo waste gate chatter.

 

Will some post a video what a good running "mini" engine sounds like. This may help others that think they may have the same issue.

 

my tensioner and timing chain broke, ceased up the engine.. it's currently in the shop, working with MINI relations about having this covered even though my car is out of warranty. Any advice would be appreciated because quite honestly I do not have $3500!

 

I have a 2007 Mini Cooper S (Auto). I bought it used with around 47K miles. I guess I never paid much attention to the engine, but it seemed somewhat loud. My brother mentioned that it sounded loud this past weekend, so it got me to thinking and searching around the 'net and found this site. My car seems like I might have the "death rattle". I took it in when it was under warranty because my car would hesitate a bit in the morning. They flushed my system and said it was good to go. Now, I am out of warranty (55K miles) and I'm wondering what to do? My car seems to get LOUDER the MORE I drive. After about a half hour on my way home from work it seemed louder than normal (and I say this sine my brother brought it to my attention and maybe it is me being paranoid to it now). I know the R56 has a loud engine from what most say. Mine seems to have the rattle even at idle when stopped at a stop light.

Any suggestions? Should I take it to the dealer? Does it sound like the "death rattle"?
Is the fix something a non-mini/bmw mechanic can do? I have friends who work at other dealerships and their mechanics are much cheaper.

 

http://www.france-info.com/chronique...13-81-423.html --> It's a famous french radiomedia ( A RADIO FRANCE Channel)

Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre


A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:


Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:

Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes…
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.

Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3

 

Picked up my car today after taking it in for hood scoop and 'death rattle' issues. Dealer fixed both under warranty as usual but I thought it might be helpful for everyone if I listed what they replaced on my invoice in relation to the 'rattle'...here goes:

"Diagnosis found insufficient timing chain tension causing engine rattle noise concern....Performed SIM110207; Performed Steps 1-13 and timing chain measured results @ 69mm. Removed and replaced timing chain, chain guides, chain tensioner, slide rail, chain sprocket and fasteners. Performed vehicle programing update. Verified repairs and results OK."

If anyone wants a list of the part numbers replaced, I have those...just let me know. BTW...I love my dealer (Niello Mini in Sacramento, CA)...excellent communication and excellent service!

 

Tess did you exchange any emails or calls with your dealer prior to the chain completely breaking? Emails are always preferred because there's a written record. What has your dealer said thus far?

 

So, how much would this Timing Chain fix be OUT OF WARRANTY?

My issue is my car seems to get LOUDER after I drive it for a half hour. When I start up, it seems ok. The oil appears to be fine (stupid Mini dipstick). i am at 55K miles, so I'm not sure if it a tune-up thing also (since they recommend at 60K). The dealer wants $125 just to get a diagnostic check.

 

2007 MCs 81,000 miles. Car currently in shop engine quit (was locked up Tuesday morning but turned over but no fire that evening). Hauled to dealer. Mechanic said he thought it was the timing chain. Haven't got bill yet.

 

I voted never but my service rep is recommended that new belt and tensioner be included with this service visit. I'm at 30,000 miles. Very rarely had the cold start symptoms. When it would happen, I did notice that my car had a bit of a stammer for the first 30 seconds coming out of the driveway.

 

Add me to the list boys. 2008 mini 2 hardtop. 43,000. Got the cold start issue after car sat all day at work today. Sigh. Hopefully the dealer wont be a hassle. I always hate dealing with this kind of stuff.

 

I have a question with regard to this problem. My 08 mini cooper s has made the sounds twice during a cold week here a little while back and not since. I took it to the dealer and they couldnt reproduce it so they sent me on my way. after complaining about it and being worried my engine will be shot if this is the problem and it fails. So long story short... I got a hold of the service manager and he is willing to check the timing belt to see if it is out of spec. This does make me feel better but no I am actually a bit concerned that they will actually be honest with this. I would hope they would be. Since all i know on this subject is what I have been reading does this sound like a reasonable step in getting to the end of the noise I heard? If it was the timing problem would I hear it often above 70 deg? It's been about 70-90's here. Thanks for the help. Not sure if I should just search for a dealer who is willing to do the work and get it done. I only have 4k left on warranty.

 

I posted a thread on how I'm able to reproduce the problem. Maybe you can try this at home and if it works for you then have your dealer do the same thing...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t-chatter.html

 

Thanks for the tip. I will try it this weekend. I only noticed it during the cold weather. I'm just worried at this point.

 

The problem is more noticable in cold weather, but it's not caused by cold weather. It has to do with the car not getting up to normal operating temperatures. If you're going to try the test be sure to let it sit over night.

Also post an update as to whether the test was successful at replicating the problem or not

 

+1

"Cold Start" does not necessarily mean a cold weather start. It can mean starting for the first time after the engine has completely cooled down (even if its 100 degrees outside)

 

My car had the cold start problem 800 miles after my warranty expired. I brought it to my local Mini Specialist and they determined it was my tensioner and replaced it for under $400.00 it's only been about 1k after the replacement and no problems yet....

 

Good Lord, the fun never ends....

Thought my Cold Start issue had resurfaced for the third time, but HEY false alarm-- it's the blower motor for my CC system

 

Our '09 JCW Clubbie (~26K) is having the whole timing chain/tensioner replacement performed as I type. When we brought her in for service , a year ago, I told them we were having the cold-start rattle issue, but they couldn't reproduce the problem, so no repair. Now, a year later, the chain was getting so loose it would chatter until the engine was fully warmed up. This time it was easy to reproduce even with the outside temp over 100.

 

I'll try to translate the text below... Forgive any errors - while I do use my french frequently, it is within a very narrow context at work - luckily also technical! (my comments are in italics in brackets)
Enjoy - though it is really just a rehash of what we all know. It's just nice to see it going over the radio...
While I don't EXPECT the problem on my car, I do want to see an extesion to the warranty to cover me just in case - 7Y/100000KM is ok, but not enough!!
Eric.


This is a transcript of a Radio France emission: In France we are starting to get the problem recognised; we are fighting to be heard.

A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:

Gasoline engine Peugeot-Citroën / Mini 1.6l question regarding reliablilty:

This is not an epidenic, nor a sacrifice (not sure of that bit) as with the 1.5l DCI engine from Renault installed on the Scenic and Grand Scenic 2003-2004. None the less there is some repetitivity to the technical fault which affects the functioning of this 1.6l engine.
An engine you will find on some Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4, and also on some Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008, and on all of the Minis.

What's happening to this engine?

A concern over the timing chain. The metal timing chain is an engineering choice made in place of a rubber timing belt, to eliminate the risk of breakage, and is expected to last the life of the car without any signifigant maintenance.
On this modern engine released in 2006, there is in fact a concern over the hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

First you hear a metalic sound. More often in cold weather. At the start the noise goes away as the engine warms up.

At this point one should already be alerting the brand representative (a Mini SA for us)

Otherwise the concerns become worse...?

Exactly. If you don't visit the representative, the noises amplify, with clacking that doesn't go away once the engine has warmed up.

Now you have an engine where the timing chain is not held in place properly. This allows the valves to open out of synch...
In the end you have an engine that doesn't work correctly, with losses in power, and it can go worse.

First, you can have a badly worn timing chain (''stretched'' more precisely?), which will require replacement, but that's not the worst that can happen.

There is a risk of engine failure, a low risk, but it did happen to Frédéric. To his 207.

How are the manufacturers involved responding?

Meaning Citroën, Peugeot and BMW - on their Mini model. First they minimise the extent of the problem. Even if the engine failures aren't frequent, they do happen none the less to some cars, and particularly to those that have a turbo. For example on some Citroën or Peugeot « THP » and the Mini Cooper S.

At the factory, the tensioner in question was modified in 2010.
After sale, the attitudes differ amongst the 3 manufacturers.
Replacement of the tensioner costs between 180-200 €.
Replacing the chain costs between 700 and 950 €, and all these "cures" are only partially covered by the manufacturers. This despite insistant calls to After Sales Services (Warranty department?).
And the responsibility taken, if there is an engine to change, is only partial.

 

I've been reading too much about this...... Now I'm confused what a normal idle sounds like.... Is this normal operating sound?....

http://youtu.be/HjiKIAHA4Ig

 

Bought Used MCS 2007 36,000 miles
Noticed death rattle in the morning and took to the dealer
Bought in to have SIM110207 work done.
On the way home from dealer had the Vacuum Pump Seized causing exhaust cam gear to sheer off and caused values to be bent. They removed the cylinder head found that Piston #3 had snapped two of the values, causing damage to the cylinder head and piston. After estimates to replace piston and cylinder head with all necessary parts they replaced the engine at no cost to me. Good to go ever since!