elsanib and myself have the Eibachs F/R, (there was one other guy too but don't remember his name). My car came close to my expectations of how a mini should handle after I installed the JCW Pro coilovers. (stock was to soft for me). But there was still to much roll at turn in. IMO Eibach did a great job balancing the car with the F/R bars (using soft setting on the rear).

Yes, its stiff!!
Remember, I also have the H&R springs too. They seem to be fairly well matched to the DDC dampers.

J_L - Understood... :nod: Appreciate the clarification.

To be honest, when I changed out my sway bars, I too was surprised as to how much stiffer the whole car became and I only changed out the front and rear bars; the the MINI sports suspension springs and shocks remained. The MINI shocks didn’t last long after that and I replaced them with the Bilstein B8. That was another eye opener as they were far superior to the MINI shocks and the street ride is firm but good enough; the wife still likes it. On the twisties, she likes the car better now with the sway bars and B8s than before as she says the car “seems more stable”. :grin:

My note to the Bilsteins and Konis (shocks I have experience with) was in reference to the MINI shocks, which I had thought you had in the car with the bigger sway bars. My mistake. That wasn’t a comment about the ST/KW shocks; I have heard a lot good things about them.

One comment that I have heard from a person setting up race cars was that when adding larger sway bars you need to soften the springs. I wasn’t able to get a good reason why, though. However, my own experience and maybe yours may say that the ride becomes too stiff, even for a race car. The STs likely have springs that are stiffer than the MINI springs, although I can’t say for sure as I have been unable to locate the sring rates they use. Because this is all interconnected, could it be that the ST springs are much to add that size sway bar to? A big guess here?

Your comment about a bit of “black magic” in suspension tuning is spot on. There are just so many things that come into play for a one-size-fits-all to be good for anyone. Driving style is a big one from what I can tell. There are also the trade offs, as have been mentioned. What I wish manufacturers would do is to list the specifics about their products (spring rates for springs, dampening rates for shocks, etc) so you can do your own mixing and matching. But then you would need a Dr. in suspension design just to do coilover change. No, it is not easy.. Just listen to the announcers of a stock car race; those team are making suspension adjustments on the fly.

If you get to try any of those other products, let us know your thoughts. This is one way for us to learn.

I like the term "Black Magic" as each car is different and responds differently to mod's. The most neutral (sliding into corner) cars to me have been Alfa Romeo's (driven them in Italy). This doesn't mean that they corner faster than a car that has some understeer.
I will reiterate that I am happy with the Eibach setup. Would've been nice if the install labor wasn't so much tho.

An F1 motorcycle champion 30 years ago (Kevin Schwanz) explained his perfect setup:

When I dive into a corner, and feel my front tire sliding (understeer), and I can throttle up to cause my rear tire to slide (oversteer)
that is when it handles best!!!

All of that, and no roll cage!!!!! :eek:
No fear....

Unfortunately, for a FWD cars, throttle-on induces understeer; throttle-off induces oversteer. A little simplistic, but it is the reason that, if the rear of a FWD car starts to slide out, you want to get on the gas to correct it. If you get off the gas, you will likely spin it (massive oversteer).

Thats why just a rear bar makes it dangerous!!

For those following this post about H&R bars, and the issue with the rear bushings.

I have been in contact with H&R in Germany, after some back and forth with them telling me they've never heard of this issue, they've
agreed to look into it. Ive sent them picture etc. Butdragging their feet.

I did find a solution!!! NM 25 mm bracket and bushing works wonderfully!
They sell them without the bar!

H&R Bushing VS NM Bushing and Bracket

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...5ce89e7d68.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...185e0d8371.jpg

Thanks for posting. Nice find.

I’ll apologize in advance for this request... But, would it be possible to post one more picture, taken a little further back to show the sway bar and the bracket? I am sure it is just me, but I am struggling to figure out what I am looking at in these pictures; maybe because I haven’t seen the sway bar assembly. I understand that it is the bracket, bushing and swaybar, Just not seeing it right. Sorry about that. Now that I have a Gen III Cooper, I should take a look.

If you observe the collar between the H&R bushing and NM bushing, there is a wear mark.
The NM bushing allows space between the collar and frame.
Eliminating the need to do this:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...ecb5c6d67a.jpg

Perfect! :thumbsup:
I understand. :nod:
Thanks, again, for posting.

That’s a great solution! Props to NM. Now if they would make their own front bar too... :)

SHHHH!! NM doesn't know I bought those for their competitors bar!!!

Not many MINI owners want to spend money on a front bar install, along with the propaganda that we only need a rear bar, is keeping sales down.

Only majors will spend the money on jigs, NM outsources, so it needs to be a sizable production run has to be a big one. Not worth the investment.

How many people really bought the front and rear H&R besides us??
We both had bushing design issues, and H&R (Germany) is telling me, Im the only complainant.
So 2 people known here, you and me.

I planned on doing all three - rear, front, and tower in all due time.

I installed the NM bracket and bushing,

J_L and I both had it wrong trying to add spacers and washers.
The ride improved dramatically!!
The mov below the pic shows how the bar is supposed to fall under its own weight.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...8c744cb3ce.jpg

Oh, I received an email from H&R in Germany!

The revised bushing is in production!!!

Maybe they read this post.

Meanwhile, the NM is perfect.
I found out NM use the Prothane bushing from the 19-1213 kit using their own custom aluminum billet bracket.

Just as an update to this old thread I am considering buying the H&R kit

how do I avoid “old new stock” is anyone aware of a change in part numbers or thickness of bushes ?

I have DDC, 17”x7.5 rims and 215/45/17 rubber

H&R in Germany sent me new rear bushings and brackets.
In my opinion, they are too tight.
They're in the mindset that the bushings should be like the stock ones and bind to the bar.
That makes the bar way too tight.
My solution as posted above, buy the NM 25mm bushings and brackets.



BTW The front bushings are perfect.

What did you end up buying?

Didn’t pull the trigger in the end
now looking at these far bigger 30 and 24 mm bars but worried this might be a world of pain if thickness was the main issue for the front H&R bars?

https://ukwhitelineperformance.com/c...0mm-heavy-duty

https://ukwhitelineperformance.com/c...ar-vehicle-kit

i have the front and rear super pro bars fitted to my Jcw r59 roadster at 26mm and 20mm although not listed as available they fit and work together well with bilstien B16 PSS10
https://www.superproeurope.com/produ...vehicleid=5622



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...ad912b6dcc.jpg
Track times

They’re probably hollow.
30mm solid front is unthinkable!!!

Whiteline told me solid 30mm. Nice track shot! Nice to see a R59 used on the track.

https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/bmf74/

I don't think I would want to run a 30mm solid front sway bar on a street drive Mini.... Might as well do a solid axel conversion!

I’m struggling to find out the diameter or specs of the electric SE front bar would that be thicker?
just as a bench mark

31301543147

We have a MINI SE here, i will see if he can measure it.