Why I won't buy a MINI - yet
 

I think I am not alone in this regard. I think Minis are neat looking cars and great fun to drive (have done several test drives) and I would really like to buy a Clubman. However, at this point the reliability of 2nd gen Minis (2007 and later) looks to be poor.

All cars have problems. The ones that to me are the most serious are engine related:
1) cold start chatter, which could have engine damage consequences
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-database.html
2) the other cold start issue, for which Mini now is on their second fix
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...available.html
3) the excessive carbon buildup, which may reveal itself more broadly as more Minis gain mileage and hit service intervals.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...in-engine.html

There are others, not as serious, but either annoying or expensive down the road: sunroof problems, window problems, melting hood scoops. Oh yeah, stalling. Several have noted the clutch and flywheel on manual transmissions are poor quality and some have had multiple replacements.

I maintain my cars carefully, but do not think maintenance matters on these issues! I cannot believe so many have had their cars in the shop for weeks; I have never had a car not be repaired within a day or two.

I may buy another car - in which case Mini will have lost a buyer for a long time. I have discussed this with several friends, some of whom were considering a Mini but are no longer. Hopefully, I will be able to see on the forum that Mini has successfully addressed these issues before I do buy another car. I do not expect that to happen in a short time frame, although I am confident they will resolve the issues over time.

So why do I post this? Because I think I am not alone in my opinion. Are you holding off buying because of reliability issues? Do you have a Mini already and have experienced reliability issues such that you would not recommend the car or have or plan to dispose of it? Have you lemon law'd your Mini? Post and let us all know.

I'm in the same boat as you LotusLight. I'm willing and able to buy a new MCS, but some of these long running issues have really given me reason to pause.

Well, here is my experience for whatever is worth:

Been owning MINIs since they came out in 2002:

2002 MC R50 CVT: 45K troublefree miles, sold it 1 year ago to a fellow NAMer in Southern California. Bought it new in August 2002 and sold it February 2008. I still maintain contact with the second owner and he loves the car. Carving the canyons near Los Angeles.

2004 R53 MCS: 17K troublefree miles. Bought it new October 2003 and sold it privately for more money than I had originally paid for it in February 2005.

2005 R53 MCS Hardtop: 53K miles as of today. My daily driver. Love, love the car. Other than 2 clutch replacements under warranty, the car has been rock solid reliable. Bought new March 2005. I plan to put on this baby between 150K-200K miles. I see no problem reaching that goal. I still look forward to drive it everyday.

2008 R55 Clubman S auto. My wife's daily driver, vacation car, family truckster. It will be 1 year old come Feb 27th. ZERO problems to date, solid, reliable, dependable, fast and fun to drive. Bought brand new Feb 2008, 2 weeks after they were released. Ordered it December 2007.

So we have well over 100K miles under our belts and 8 years of MINI ownership and I can tell you that these cars have been more reliable and dependable than all the 6 Honda Accords and 2 Acuras we had before them.

I haven't looked back period. But this is my anecdotal experience. If you read too much into internet posts, you'll come to the conclusion that all cars are pieces of garbage. People with problems tend to be more vocal in the internet. It is good to be informed about potential problem areas, however, it doesn't mean it will happen to you.

There are thousands of happy MINI owners with dependable cars that do not post in the internet or rarely do so. Problem cars do exist but they are a minority. Only 1% of the total MINI population out in the road posts in here. NAM has like what, 15K-25K members? How many MINIs are there on the road? 500K? You get my drift?

All cars have problems in one way or another. Problem free cars do not exist. Even the vaunted quality control champs, Honda and Toyota have suffered reliability setbacks in recent years (Recalls and such).

Also the dealer service experience makes or breaks the ownership experience. If you have a good service dept that can quickly and efficiently fix your car when problems arise, you'll be golden. On the other hand if you are stuck with a dealer with poor reputation for customer service and repairing the car right the first time, you'll quickly sour on the car.

2009 MCSa JCW, 2300 miles, zero problems. couldnt say that about my 2005 MCS. 2009 seems so much better built, and my car has sat unused for a week at below zero temps--and started perfectly fine.

Problem with NAM is that faults and problems are amplified, and that those who post on NAM represent a very small percentage of MINI ownership.

good luck, and dont let the naysayers sway you. :thumbsup:

I suggest you google some other car's you are interested in. Look for forums dedicated to those cars. Search for problems, and I bet you will find problems with just about every car on the market. The internet has made it virtually impossible to hide anything wrong with anything or anyone. Enthusiasts just want to make sure everyone knows about their experiences.

My 350Z had tire wear issues and transmission issues according to the 350z forum. I only experience the tire problem.

My M3 is known to have valve tapping and motor issues after a while. My F150 had an electrical start problem. I almost bought an STI.. Again issues that annoy customers.

all of which i found out by other members of forums dedicated to the cars.

buy a car you want to enjoy. Dont let the internet deny you. Every gadget out there will cause a hassle of some sort. Tv's, phones, GPS...whatever...

Message boards tend to be like hospital wards. All you read about is problems and complaints. Go to a computer forum, gizmo whatever. Same thing.

The internet has made it impossible to hide defects.

The data says that Mini's are not as trouble-free as most Japanese cars, but I wouldn't let the existence of seemingly-chronic problems keep you on the sidelines. Do your research, but realize that a forum on a Honda Civic board is going to have some things that appear to be chronic problems also.

On the cold-start issues, this is definitely a problem area, but I think to infer that we're on the verge of an epidemic of engine damage is going too far. If the problem really is severe, BMW will probably step up to the plate and fix things out of warranty - they have done it on previous occasions.

IOW, be wary, but don't be paranoid.

- Mark

this is the sole reason why I did not abandon the MINI brand after I traded my 05 shop queen-- my dealer's service dept treats me like a VIP. :thumbsup:

BTW despite what U read here, the 2nd gen cars have better overall reliability ratings than the first gen. the first gen car was developed when BMW still owned (Land) Rover, and a lot of parts and technology on the first gen car came from the Rover leftover parts bin (ie the electrohydraulic steering mess.) The 2nd gen car is all BMW, from the ground up, and it shows.

Yeah, you have posted this before! First, my post is addressing 2nd gen only. Second, you have also posted that on you manual transmission (1st gen, but same mfr/components as 2nd gen) you have twice replaced the clutch and flywheel and as a result in no way would you consider purchasing another manual transmission. You also purchased the extended maintenance contract on that vehicle and posted that it paid for itself many times over.

You are missing the point of the thread
 

I have participated in other car forums and am well aware that all car forums are filled with complaints. I also have read that many Mini owners have had no problems. I am not leaping to the conclusion there will be engine damage.

Agree or not, I reached my conclusion as have some others.

You know, if your not comfortable in buying one, then don't. But you'll be missing out. My mini has been far more reliable than any other car I've owned (hondas, toyotas, vw's, fords, gmc's etc.) Will the one you get have problems? Maybe, but any car will.

I currently have just over 191,000 miles on my car, and other than usual maientance (oil, tires, brakes etc) has cost very little in repairs. Most money goes to mods - then tires in that order.

I am getting ready to replace the supercharger, but its only rated to 100k miles (85k w/ a 15% pulley), and I have almost double that. So I'm not gonna complain.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

There never will be a perfect car.

Nik

Read my lips - 2nd gen!

I pity the sales manager when I go to haggle for the Clubbie. Threads like that make it much easier for me to walk out if the salesweasels are stubborn.

LL, what other cars are you looking at? I'm at a loss, honestly. You can find a ton of good cars for $30K, but which are comparable on the "fun" factor?..

I have no urgency, so will probably start looking at the auto show in a few months.

:roll: Wow - welcome to NAM

Fine - 2nd gen. There is a lady here who has a 2007 s commutes 260 miles per day - for almost two years straight- currently has well over 100k miles, and has only paid for tires, brakes, and oil changes.

Nik

Having saved hard for several years now, and being close to making a purchase decision, I test drove some R53 and R56 models lately. I've been reading about the cold start noise with some concern, but without knowing whether it has affected less than 0.1% or as many as 5% of the cars. So I went to some local non-MINI dealers who had used MINIs on their lots. Maybe it was just my bad luck, but when I started up the 07 MCS, it sounded just like a diesel... a fairly loud diesel. I've been trying to keep an open mind about the whole thing, but that was not an encouraging experience. I live in hope that BMW/MINI will finally get this problem sorted. In the mean time, I'm likely to go with a low mileage 06. It's true that the Internet amplifies every little problem that people experience in a context like this. My aging Accord has had its issues from time to time, so I'm not expecting perfection in any vehicle. But until this particular issue is at the very least accurately diagnosed and then rectified, it's hard to get excited about taking a chance with the money it has taken me so long to save. Good luck to all in making the right decision :)

Cold start problem? Is it a cold start issue in cold weather? If so then I have nothing to worry about!!

i've had remarkable reliability, and I'm coming from a Volkswagen Jetta that was a total nightmare, and before that a BMW 535is that I drove to 242,000 miles with no problems. I've seen both sides of the coin and the MINI has proven to be more reliable than my Dad's Acura MDX, my stepmothers Mazda RX-8 and my mom's Civic Si. Japanese cars aren't always the benchmark, anymore, guys.

I mostly agree with you, but not totally. Both 1st and 2nd Gen have a long litany of issues that have received more than their share of negative press on the online forums. Things do tend to get extra attention; however, because of it we have become much more knowledgeable MINI owners. I know I am now able to be on the lookout for the common problems in my '05. When the coolant tank leaked and when the passenger side motor mount failed I was all over it because I was already on the lookout for these things. It helps one to be proactive with preventative maintenance.

Now just because problems tend to be magnified in prevalence doesn't mean one should simply ignore the ones that could end catastrophically. Knowing what we know now from NAM, who in their right mind would recommend someone acquire an early, high mileage 1st Gen with a CVT? Who wouldn't recommend replacement of the '02 -'04 PS pump fan with the newly designed unit? Regardless of over-magnification of the problems, it only takes a few $10K repair bills or life threatening fires to make the risk not worth taking. I'll bet if the Internet had been around and there was an online Ford Pinto forum in 1986, people would likely have been posting that the fuel tank design flaw was being blown out of proportion too.

And it is exactly for this reason that I am on the list of those who are financially able to consider a new R57 S but refuse to do so until there is a proven root cause and fix for the cold start death rattle. Given that the posts on this issue now runs literally in the thousands if you count all of the online forums, it is clearly NOT a rare occurrence. BMW MINI is obviously still struggling to understand what is going on and offer a mitigating re-design. The jury is still out on the spring loaded cam chain tensioner; I have yet to hear from anyone that the replacement works as advertised. I cannot risk $30K on this car only to learn post-warranty that the problem is recognized as serious (and at that point, totally mine).

When I visit Bill Jacobs in Naperville this weekend, I plan to tell them exactly this.

Don't buy one. I've had almost 30 cars over the years and none of them gave me enough problems to swear off the brand forever. I'm on MINI number three (one R53, two R56's) and love em. Probably a third of my cars have been higher priced including BMW's, Audi's, and a Porsche, and my current JCW is hands down the best all arounder I've ever had.

Mine works great, but you probably should consider a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.

Apparently, you never owned a Dodge :lol:

Re-read my post, geez!:roll: :popcorn:

2008 R55 Clubman S auto, 8K miles ZERO problems. That qualifies as second gen, doesn't it?:sly:

Since you are hell bent in thinking that these cars are garbage, well then don't buy one. Save yourself the hassle and the headaches. Absolutely not worth it!:popcorn:

PS: I am sorry to say, but first hand experience from us long timer 1st gen owners does count as well. READ MY LIPS!!!!:lol:

The Ford Pinto was not around in 1968:lol: :roll:

There is nothing wrong with becoming an educated consumer. I spend the time reading online forums as well as reviews of products that I am interested in. Becoming well familiarized with problems is part of that process. However, obsessing with them and thinking that every freaking reported disaster is going to happen to you, even long before you decide to buy the product in question, is a fairly unhealthy way to approach the problem.

Case in point: The cracking MINI windshields. Back in 2002-2003, the cracking windshield problem reached epidemic proportions in this and other MINI forums:lol: I have never had to touch the factory windshield on any of the 4 MINIs I have owned. The 2002 was sold with the original glass, intact. Ditto for the 2004. My 2005 still has the original factory windshield.

However, many people have gone through 10 windshield replacements:popcorn:

It is all relative. Your experience, may vary.:wink: