Forums like this is where people come to b1tch.

Beware of the vocal majority. They are usually in the minority.

Third MINI here. No problems worse than any of my previous cars but a heck of lot more fun.

Careful. The OP does not think 1st gens have any right to opine in this subject. Make sure to read his lips.

Ooops...I think I meant to say '86. :o Dyslexia, ya know...

I can read and do read. That comment was not directed at you. However, folks attribute things to posters that are not there as you do in the quoted post. Oh well.

+1
:nod::nod::lol::lol::thumbsup::thumbsup:

You know, I respect that you have lots of experience with Minis. I found some of your posts in other threads quite helpful. I find some of your posts to be quite flippant, however. Since I expressed in my first post that the things that concerned me most were engine related, and that the 2nd gen Minis have a different engine than the 1st gen, I think it only appropriate that the thread address 2nd gen. If you don't, well God bless.

Fine. No problem. I have very thick skin.

No worries..

I guess I'm at a loss for what the OP is looking for here? If you're looking for someone to talk you into buying a MINI looks like you're getting plenty of support here. If you're trying to talk yourself out of buying, seems like you've already pretty much made up your mind. What baffles me a bit is your handle implying Lotus ownership? Since when are Loti known as bastions of reliability?

Yes, I agree that it's easy for well-intentioned folks to overreact to every conveyed instance of a problem.

You know, essentially it all boils down to good old systems engineering risk management. Some people are simply willing or able to accept and carry more risk, and it's tough to quantify the risk based on the data we have available to us. When does the inflation start to have meaningful reality? The trick seems to be taking the data segment represented by published materials, the online communities, personal knowledge, word of mouth, etc. and correctly translating it to the whole population of MINI owners so that meaningful conclusions can be drawn. A large number of different people from different venues complaining about the same thing must have some correlation. Lots of first-time posters who state that they "had the problem, did a search, and found this thread..." is another clue that the problem might affect a wider group. Testimonials in widely circulated online or paper periodicals (e.g., MotoringFile) is another clue. Reluctant willingness by the manufacturer to publicly accept that there is an issue and state that they're working to mitigate it is another sign. Someone could probably make a career out of studying this.

If you're in a good financial situation (i.e., can easily afford unexpected, costly repairs), not planning to keep your MINI past the warranty period, have a relatively problem-free MINI history, and don't have any first-hand knowledge of these problems happening to people within your social circle you're less likely to worry about the severity of the known Peugeot engine issues (particularly the cold start death rattle which is garnering the most press coverage and falls into all of the categories stated in the previous paragraph.) On the other hand, if the MINI is a financial stretch for you, if you're wanting to keep your MINI for the long term, have been burned in the past, and have personal knowledge of MINI motoring mates with the problems, you're probably more likely to think twice about it. As ClubmanS states, it's relative.

I think I have spent less than $300 on mine in the last 5 years :thumbsup:. And it has been out of warranty for, umm, decades. I don't put a lot of miles on it but it is in a condition that I could. Not too good for hauling stuff though! You are generally right about Lotus and all British cars for that matter. Lucas' dying words were, "Don't drive at night."

I was neither asking for folks positive experiences nor trying to get others to talk me into buying a Mini or not buying a Mini. I had already concluded I want to wait to see progress in a few problem areas. I know there are plenty of good experiences and I know how forums work.

I just wondered how many folks were holding off, or were so fed up they had gotten rid of their Minis or decided they would. I knew there would be few of those posters since many folks at that point drop off boards, but I wanted to see.

I was not trying to shoot anybody's baby. I truly think they are neat and unique cars.

Cheers! Thanks for asking what I was trying to get at.

Hey I owned a dodge pickup for 11 years and sold it when gas prices skyrocketed.

Over 170k miles with no problems.

But then again my neighbor has had one for a year with nothing but problems.

So tothe OP leave us and buy something else that will have just as many non issue problems as any other car.

The one thing you MUST remember is that although this is a large community here on NAM we are really less than 1% of the total owners out there. Now if only 10% of the 1% have a cold start issue then we are talking about what maybe .01% of the cars built. With that kind of a record even Honda can't do that.

Yes, but your logic is flawed. You assume that NONE of the other 99% of non-NAM affiliated owners have experienced, or are experiencing, the issue. What if the percentage exactly translates? If so, then 10% of all Peugeot engines sold is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Good point. I do understand forum membership and statistics. In 2007 and 2008 Mini USA sold about 96,000 Minis. Most folks are not forum members and most don't go to forums even when they have problems. Someone posted taking their car in for the cold start (not clatter) issue and the dealer had 20 something cars in the shop for that very problem. Yet there were not 20 members from the same locale posting. It works both ways.

Since I live in Florida it is likely I'll never experience the cold start engine problem in the Clubman. But it doesn't mean the problem is not there. It is just that the environment variables are not lined up in place to trigger the condition.

Look, I think MINI has some un excusable QC gaffes. I am not sure if this is caused by product development philosophy, trying to assemble too many cars, going cheap on the suppliers, I am not sure. But I would be the first one to admit that yes there are issues reported with the cars.

However, it doesn't mean that those issues will be a given in your particular car/situation. My experience has been generally very positive and 2 of the MINIs (2002 R50 and 2008 Clubman) have been 1st year models with minor to no issues to speak of.

Car manufacturers rarely, if ever, go out in the open and admit to QC problems with their products. Unless there is a voluntary recall or forced NHTSA recall, you'll never see any admission of wrong doing. You have seen stories of falling VW power windows, engine sludge in Toyota/Lexus engines, failed automatic transmissions in Honda and Acura cars.

Speaking of which, have you guys seen how many recalls are coming from Toyota lately? Even the "kings" of product quality have fallen to the ills that affect the car industry in general.

My sister owns a 2008 Chevy Impala sedan. The basic no frills 3.5L V6 LS model. Most people think of Chevy as garbage, cheaply built, unreliable. That car has been amazingly solid. No a single unschedule dealer visit. It is not an enthusiasts car. But for a comfy/safe/well made set of family wheels, that car can't be beat. I have driven it. I don't care for the steering feel and body roll, but it is a competent car for what it is. Rides quietly, it is good on gas, has a torquey engine, no a single rattle or squeak, nicely finished with very decent materials, comfortable seats. Even standard XM radio that you have to pay extra on a MINI.

I am sure those Impalas have problem areas and people experiencing all kinds of reliability problems. But like I said all is relative.

It seems to me that buying any new car in the market today is a luck of the draw.

The reason I joined this forum was my interest in MINIs, not to gripe. As matter of fact, I joined before my MINI was ordered.

I have had my MINI for about 3.5 months and am starting to experience small problems. I just started to notice a clicking sound from my passenger side front wheel. In addition, my front passenger seat would not slide forward or backward for several weeks. I know they will probably fix the problem, but what a hassle for only having my MINI for a few months.

From my experience, Japanese cars are more reliable (not necessarily more fun) than british built cars.

I apologize to the enthusiasts, I guess I am just frustrated.

The MINI is built in the UK but it is far from being a truly British car. It has more in common to a BMW E46 than a Rover Mini from yesteryear.

Sorry to hear about your issues. It sucks to have a new car and already worrying about warranty repairs.

You're probably correct, but wouldn't you say that Japanese cars are more reliable than Beemers and less expensive to fix?

Don't get me wrong, I really like the MINI, it is the fastest and best handling automobile that I have owned, but I will not keep it past the warranty period.

I have owned my fair share of Hondas. Japanese cars post-warranty are not exactly cheap to repair. I had a '89 Accord LX bought new, built in Japan, that started to literally fall apart in year #4 of ownership. Thin paint, the A/C died twice, lots of brake problems, etc. The US Built Accords I had were much better behaved, go figure. After the Hondas I had 2 Japan built Acuras (Integra and 1st gen TL). The TL had a horrid automatic gearbox and odd rear brake problems.

But none of them ever left me stranded on the side of the road. They just nickled and dimed me with little things gone wrong here and there after warranty. Oh and don't get me started with the pricey $$$$ Honda required maintenace with timing belts requiring replacement at 60K miles, etc.

I didn't mean to focus that at you but jjust to say in a more general sense that most people don't come here (or any forum) and say, "I love my MINI, never had a problem."

Those people are usually out MOTORIN'!

You just have to remember that the people here represent a small yet enthusiastic percentage of all MINI owners.

If he wants to buy a MINI, great - welcome to the club.

If not, who cares? I sure don't own shares in BMW!

You missed the whole point of this thread -- Post #35 might help you...

I agree wholeheartedly. To me, it was a given that as Toyota (and Honda, but to a lesser extent) would have more quality problems given their continuing growth. Reputations live beyond reality. You know, Dell was the low priced computer. Schwab was the discount broker. Volvo made cars that lasted forever. That was their reputation long after they were no longer those things. In reality, Japanese car quality has been declining and not all American cars are junk. Junk Korean cars? I have read that Hyndai quality is pretty good.

I have experienced both of the "cold" problems, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying my MINI 99% of the time :thumbsup:

LotusLight, interesting moniker! :lol: Issues are going to come up no matter what you buy. Our MINI has been performing nicely - no problems yet! I suspect some will pop up, but I'm not going to worry about it too much. Besides MINI has a nice loaner program which I have not been able to take advantage of! :mad: I think previous posters have pointed out the mathematics of these issues so I won't add more to it. If you enjoy the car - get one, if you're not really into it - don't. I don't think holding off will make any difference in the long run. If you're worried about future costs, get rid of it before the warranty expires! :thumbsup: That said, MINIs probably are not for everyone, so if you're questioning the choice already maybe you should reconsider your selections. Our's is a 2009, bought last summer. :thumbsup: Good luck, and don't over work the problems - enjoy life! :nod:

I am reading this and wondering if people actually have time to drive since they're always on this forum complaining about their precious cars.

I have almost 20K on my 2007 MCS and had no issues whatsoever except leaking washer jets. Yes, the engine makes noise like any other engine. That "diesel" engine sound many refer to is actually cool and I like it. The tapping noise in the morning goes away in 5 minutes, big deal. I choose to drive the car and not listen to it instead.

The problem is with this forum is that people treat their Minis as toys and always are so scared that something may go wrong with their babies (I mean Minis) or this or that will cause something to go wrong in the future. To me it's just waisting time.

The minute you start treating your Minis as cars and stop listening to what this noise or that noise would mean I promise your problems and endless trips to the dealership will end.

That's just my opinion.:thumbsup: