Supercharger/ water pump gear failure? What's the fastest it's happened?
 

I have an 03 JCW, w 47,000 miles and now noticed the death rattle coming from the water pump gears. :mad:

No engine mods beyond JCW, and out of warranty because of time rather than mileage. :roll: (In service month of 04/03)

I don't flog the car too hard either.

What's the fastest you've seen a JCW or stock S/C/ waterpump gear fail?

From the anecdotal evidence on these here boards, it's all over the map. some blow out early within the warranty period; while others are hitting 120k miles, before deciding to replace.

Eaton's the 800 lb gorilla in this playground; scuttlebutt is they want the hapless owners (us) to fork over retail cash for an entire unit - S/C and water pump. No gears a la carte for us. :(

Well, reading thru several of these forums, new and old (2006), it seems this is my problem also. I have the rattle/noise, with 110k miles and 15% pulley since 10-15k.
So, what is the verdict? Can the supercharger gears (that failed) be replaced? or do I have to buy a new unit?

Thanks
Webb

Put an electric waterpump in it. works better. Talk to longboard about it....

Well, a group of our local club members pulled 3 S/C's off of 3 different cars this weekend to inspect the water pump gear issue, and some interesting things were found.

The cars checked so far:

A 03/03 build JCW w/ 48K mi (mine) JCW Kit 456,

A 10/02 build 2003 JCW (51K miles, but maintained like a professional race car) JCW Kit 491

A 09/04 build 2004 MCS w/ 69K miles + intake/ exhaust mod).

The 03/03 build, 2003 JCW car had nominal shaft play in the waterpump gear, particularly the drive gear attached to the gear case. Enough to cause minimal noise. There was less than an ounce of gear oil left (2oz is recommended, IIRC). Best guess is that the oil is either leaking past the case seal or past the shaft seal ring in tiny amounts over time. The S/C itself looked good. Teflon coating was fully intact and there were no other issues. Refilling the oil and reassembling mitigated the noise I was concerned about. Phew.

The 2004 MCS was a bit different. The waterpump gears looked perfect. Oil was as low however (also about an ounce left). The supercharger itself did have some damage to the ceramic coating on the vanes. It's beginning to come off. Not good and not encouraging. But not ready for replacement just yet.

The 10/02 - 2003 JCW / build was a different deal altogether. This MINI is cared for in a way that I've never seen (having 40 years of racing and /ech experience, and your own shop with a 2 post lift helps, which he does.....) . The car is cleaned from head to toe, top and bottom, and treated like a race car. The underside looks like any ALMS car before a race weekend. Perfect. So when the car came apart we were stunned to find that the water pump gears were absoluley perfect... but the supercharger (JCW "spec" w/ teflon) is in rough shape. The teflon has nearly totally delaminated from the s/c vanes! There was bits of it everywhere, and much of it was obviously blown through the motor. Teflon is very abrasive when its in flakes and it certainly isn't good for piston rings. Time for a new S/C.

As far as the gears go, it's our understanding that Eaton will not sell them separately. All manner of searching leads us to believe that the only option is a replacement unit.(GRRR...) Rebuilt or new, at a cost of as little as $1,200 and as high as $2,200 depending on where it's sourced from.

Pics and video of the delaminated unit are coming. I may start a separate thread.

Wow. All over the board. Thanks for the feedback. Now I'll have to spend a weekend pulling the s/c on mine. sigh.

Is there any way to access the fill holes on the supercharger without removing parts so we can check/drain/refill the oil? Can some type of tool be made to access it and thus check and refill the supercharger oil?

Bronson, who's cars were these?

I did find a used SC (less than 20k miles) from HELIX. I'll let everyone know how the install goes (should be today). Also, let everyone know how the 75w-90 and anerobic sealant worked out in the new one.

Mine, J.R.'s and Laura's. Pics and video are coming.... just have to get them uploaded.

thanks for sharing your findings on the eaton wear and tear
 

thanks very much for this thread - I've linked it into the "should we start a subforum for high mileage" thread.

with my Works '04 MCS at 101k miles I take careful note of this information!

cheers,

charlie

:thumbsup:

I think
 

the earliest total failure I remember is from about 40k miles or so.

Flaking of the coatings is due to high IATs in the SC. Remeber, there are two types or coatings, and I think both wear to fit, so there will be some marring no matter what.

Basic rebuilds are only about $500. If you want the SC worked over and improved, it goes up from there.

If you're really worried about this, get a take off or a used one from eBay, get it reworked at your convienience, and park it on the shelf.

It's pretty easy to get to the front plugs, but the rear are more of a PITA.

But keep this in mind. The leaking is the failure, not the low level. If you top off, you have to keep checking as it shouldn't be loosing fluid. If it is and it's through a shaft seal, you're just buying time.

Matt

:no:

One person spoke of drilling an access hole to add oil to the WP gears, but haven't heard of anyone whose actually done it.

how much oil?
 

so how much oil is needed for a supercharger oil change - there are 2 plugs on the supercharger aren't there?

I did some searching on here, and one person talked about changing the oil while the water pump is on. I think he said you could possibly access the allen head screw beneath the water pump using a long allen wrench, and top off the oil with something that way. I may try that route....

To date, no. The fill hole is on the side of the case rather than the top.

That's something a couple of the guys have been working on here, but it's gonna be tricky if it can be done at all. Even if it's possible, you'll still have to take off the intercooler at the least. The full dissasembly means pulling everything from the bumper cover, bumper, radiator connections, intercooler, fuel rail, etc. Not really a driveway job.

Based on what was seen on these three cars. The gear case really should be taken off, gears and shaft checked, and mated surfaces sealed with the anerobic sealer if everything looks good. Much of the noise apparenly comes from fore/aft play in the pump gear shaft that is attached to the case. It wears and all three cars had varied play in the shaft.

I should add that one other car was dissasembled about 2 months ago and it had NO oil in the case. The pump gears were toast.

If I am not mistaken, the hole is below the level that you need to fill the oil to, when the s/c is mounted.

Pics and Video of the 2003 JCW (was teflon coated). This s/c was used for 40,000 miles and the water pump gears were fine:



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/...ff773393_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/...bc1e47a5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/...6045980d_b.jpg


VIDEO:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7338752@N03/2611158626/


I didn't even think to get the camera out until we found this, so I will take pics of the last one that wtadye is doing, likely this saturday. including the water pump gear inspection, etc.

On my '04 MCS the s/c totally failed while under warranty at about 15K.

old thread, but it hits on some issues related to the water pump... :thumbsup:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=74674

Thanks for posting. Interesting to note that much degradation of the coating on the JCW unit with relatively moderate mileage.

Any details on the 'anerobic sealer'??

Details? Failure mode? Post mortem?
I'd love to know what 'totally failed' means.

Symptoms: For a few thousand miles before 'total failure' the s/c was making a progressively more obnoxious squealing sound. Then I noticed a build-up of what looked to be lubricant on the end of the s/c (sorry, I do not remember which end, but I think it was the pulley end.) On a Saturday morning I drove to the dealer and based on the sound alone they diagnosed s/c failure, ordered a new one, and told me it was OK to drive until the replacement arrived. 5 miles down the road the s/c seized and the car would not run. Towed to dealer. Diagnosis: 'foreign body ingestion.' I asked that I be allowed to inspect the s/c before it was returned to MINI but the dealer 'forgot' and sent it back. No problems in the 60K since.

Thanks for the info. Sucks when you do everything right and you STILL don't get the info you're looking for. :sly:
Sounds like you had a front bearing/seal issue. Not common, AFAIK.