I wouldn't install Konis on anyone's car, but that me. Bilsteins every day.

Camber doesn't eat tires, but wrong toe in/out will wear them faster than you think. A poor alignment will destroy tires very quickly. ALWAYS get an alignment after performing suspension replacement work.

 

My opinion, but if you are going to run springs with dropped height over stock I suggest you get adj camber plates over fixed. This will allow you to match the camber side to side, and give adjustability if you decide to go further at some point.

 

^^^ OTOH, if he does choose JCW "reds" with drop of just 10mm from OEM per BMW, likely no need for adjustable plates. Without those plates, getting wheel alignment done routinely by a competent shops should avoid what I went through on that aspect.

 

^^^^ not knowing the condition of his car, but going with fixed plates doesn't always guarantee both sides will display the same amount of camber. I guess it all depends on his location and whether he has a solid MINI or performance shop he trusts to do the work.

Good discussion nonetheless....

 

That is a general description that spans the applicantions from Abarth through Z4’s…

For the R53… I’m pretty sure that Koni still specifies no lowering springs including the JCW ‘red’

Other than looks … for the street, lowering the car detracts from overall performance as there is not one set of lowered dampers that retains at least stock available travel.

Any brand of non adjustable damper has its valving optimized for the springs that you are using… and the jounce bumper is part of the ‘spring’ … lowered cars ride on the jounce bumpers more often which absolutely tortures the rebound valving and fluid in the shocks … one of the reason that so many people burn theough their ‘shoddy quality stock shocks’ … they were never designed to take those condos of shaft speeds/frequency.

Koni invested a lot of time into refining thr FSD package in these shocks that work as a better performing system when used as designed and tested … it’s no wonder that many people who wanted to use their own random combos of springs with the FSD/SA’s had poor results and equated that to ‘bad shocks’.

The SA’s for the R5X Minis is a very well refined performance upgrade that was designed to function optimally with a one particular spring…. Second guessing their ‘systems approach’ would, IMO, be spending money to decrease performance and reliability

 

Here is my email asking Koni about JCW springs and Special active shocks and the response directly from Koni:

4/12/2022 My message: Do your koni red special active struts and shocks work with the 10mm John Cooper Works Lowering Springs on my 2005 Mini Cooper S JCW? Thank you.

4/13/2022 Konis answer:Yes, the Special ACTIVEs will work with the factory OE lower JCW lowering springs.Mason O’Hara Technical Sales Representative KONI - an ITT company

 

+1
I agree with analte.
IMO- Whether Koni, Bilstien, lowering or not; After changing to Koni in addition to (pounding flat the strut towers), adding CS lower and M7 upper strut mount reinforcement plates in the front; I wound up with slightly different negative camber left/right.
Now that I understand from experience AND from what others here have recommended with adjustable camber plates - I will definitely be switching out my lower CS plates to adjustables.
Just my opinion - as well.

 

I picked up a set of "BC RACING COILOVER KIT DS-DH" for my 06 JCW (7kg front springs and 5kg rear) as well as a 20mm SuperPro adjustable sway bar, Superpro adjustable end links (I sprayed them Gold & clear coated them before fitting), I also have adjustable upper and lower rear control arms that I haven't installed yet. I also replaced my 17 inch runflats with 18 inch Yokahamas and R95 wheels that I had refurbished. I also have Cusco carbon front strut bar and rear carbon chassis brace (behind the rear seat).

Really surprised with the difference it has made. I have been doing a lot of country driving ie: 2,000km road trips regularly on very poor Australian roads (including gravel roads). I have limited knowledge of suspension set ups but the BC's almost "feel" like the original sports plus mini suspension with the 17" run flats (compared to my 18" non flat Yokohamas). A lot better turn in on corners and the BC's seem to react better (faster?) to our battered roads.

Keep in mind I have yet to have my set up adjusted by someone who knows what they are doing yet. The place I am getting it done has a month long wait list and this is just so I can get it inspected as I want the bushings and joints checked as well (250,000km's of wear on them). Then I have to wait again to get a booking to have the work done and adjustments made.

 

I spoke to Koni by phone.

Yes, it seems that the SA’s for the Gen1 MINI ‘Can’ be used with some of the lowering springs out there. They still say that the jounce bumpers (aka ‘bump stops’) can cause issues with the shock because of huge spikes in internal pressure from frequent bottoming, or near bottoming events. Too much force on the rebound valving and the long-term thermal capacity of the fluid (the fluid wears out too fast)

Yes, shorter or softer stops can alleviate some of the symptoms… but there will still be more frequent bottoming events with lowered suspension on the car vs one that has full travel available to it. With a trimmed jounce bumper… that bottoming, when it happens, will be more harsh and wearing to the shock. No free lunch there.

They have improved the seals on the red SA’s to be more customer resistant to different choices of springs vs the gold color FSD’s (same valving and fluid used in both iterations)

And…

They still assert that the SA’s are optimized for the stock ride height and stock rate and curve spring set.

Koni said that if you wanted to change to different rates … sure, possible … but no where near optimal and it throws much of the ‘systems approach’ in the engineering of this shock to the wind.

They are in the business of selling things … so if a customer is ‘hell bent’ on reinventing the huge amount of engineering that went into the package… they can’t stop them … the only thing they can do is to make their package more resistant to the abuse.

For me, ‘working’ and ‘optimizing performance’ are two different things…

sure you could get something to ‘work’ on a 53…we see it all the time with people that pay money to lower the performance of an ‘upgrade’… but will it work better… hmm 🤔

If you want to go with a lowered suspension on the car (the OP said he did not) … then I’d highly recommend a damper package that has matched spring engineering and testing behind it … or a well designed, quality built coil over package like the Öhlins, KW, AST that take a systems approach to designing the package together as a ‘unit’, springs and damper.... (Spring-Rate/lenght/damper/valving/travel/jounce-rate/jounce-tip-in/ackerman/etc etc).

Last point…lowering a car, in and of itself, does not equal better performance handling…. especially in the real world on real roads.





good food for thought

this is my opinion as an engineer, owner and user of the product in question…

In the end, it is just an opinion … and there are lots of them in the world

Motor on and have fun while you do it!!!

.

 

I took advantage of the Koni sale and got a set of Special Actives. I probably won't install them until early June due to work and travel.

What should I expect from the rubber spring pads? Mine are 20 years old so I would think they aren't in great shape but I know others have reused them. I can't get a really good look at them until I remove the current shocks but I'd like to have the new parts on hand before disassembly.

 

Replace them. Even if they look good visually, they are degraded due to age and won't allow the new shocks to perform at their best.

 

Thanks, replacing hardware etc. is typically my default position. But friends sometimes tell me that I replace items that I don't need to. That's why I asked. In general, my thinking is that this is a hobby so I'm not going to worry about the few bucks if I want to be a completist.

 

With today's tech ??
of course airride... the availability of parts and how much more affordable they've become..
It's hard too to say what suspension is the best. We all have different preferences and drive our cars differently.. i LOVE how my car feels and handles but there people that hate it because they dont wanna feel any bumps and don't mind some body sway ect... so best bet is decide what your specifically needing out of your suspension and then go from there.
imo as far as comfort nothing going to beat air ride and then oem stock non sport plus suspension imo comes next fir comfort..

 

To Old Speedwell and all the other in this post:
I have been reading NAM for years and I wanted to first say thank you to all for all your insight, knowledge and honest opinions over the years. NAM is a wealth of knowledge and it's guys like you that make it so helpful to guys like me. I bookmarked this page long ago and I'm back....I am seriously considering the Fortune 500 coilovers and looking for some feedback from a current owner so Old Speedwell if you have some feedback on the Fortune 500 set, I would appreciate it. ****And for anybody els with feedback on their coilover set up... I'll take it!!!

1) How do you like the set up over all? Track? Street?
2) You ended up with Swift springs 6k and 6K? Any specific reason you wanted the Hyperco with the Fortune 500 setup?
3) How do you like the spring rates now that you've had them a while? Would you change?
4) Did the Dirgressive Damping vs Linear Damping have any bearing on your choosing Fortune and if so how do you like or dislike the digressive damping?
5) What sway bar are you using and did you change when you put the Fortune 500 coilovers on?
6) How often do you change the rebound? Did you add extensions to the rear adjuster?

 

I did my suspension back a couple of years ago with Feal coilovers. I was naive and listened to RMW advice. Feal has been great to work with as the coilovers weren't right. The fronts were were so low that they still rubbed when maxed out on height. They helped fix the issues with new coilover bodies. Getting the Feal setup at least gives similar adjustability to the other options out there. Springs are swift and can be adjusted for rate and height iirc. I ended up with custom sleeves so the the perches worked better for me .

I had plans to do some track days with the car, but retired to Montana before that ever happened. Now I have some regrets. My coilovers handle well, but are stiff. On track they'd likely be great. On the street they're a little harsh. Not awful but harder than I'd like honestly and I've set everything to full soft.

I wish I'd gone with Ohlins. I don't hear of them much anymore on here, but I recall they got great reviews as street/track combo with the emphasis on street. Does anyone have experience with them that can chime in. I might even be willing to swap out my current Feal setup at some point to try them. Otherwise I'll likely be swapping springs to soften things up a bit.

 

Thanks for bring this thread to back to life 2out2sea; I'd not read through it. I'm sure a lot of what's on this thread are excellent choices as well but I frickin' LOVE my Bilstein PSS10s with IE fixed camber plates. I've never had a car so compliant and easy to toss around, and it sticks like crazy. I keep it dialed to a 3/10 for street driving and the ride is firm and controlled, but not at all jarry or boucy. I set them to about an inch and a half lower than stock with no clearance issues on my 17x7.5s with 215 rubber.

Downside is they cost a bunch but I found a bargain. Should they ever need replacing I'll come back to this thread for more budget friendly ideas.

 

My 2003 Cooper did very well with
Koni yellows and stock ride height.
My 2009 JCW Clubman has them
now with no complaints.
I adjust the front rebound a little
softer in the winter.

 

On my '04 JCW, I have Koni Yellows with H&R springs (about 30mm lower -1 inch) and rides great. Have had this set up going on 7 years or so.

 

White and blue is a nice combo!

 

I have the Bilstein PSS (non adjustable damping compared to the PSS10) coilovers on my R53 with full poly suspension bushings and a Hotchkis adjustable rear sway bar set on the softest setting. My car rides firm and corners flat. I daily drive it and do a couple or so track days every year. I have my front struts adjusted almost all the up and my front end is still much lower than stock but I don't have any rubbing - even with 15mm spacers all around. I find it odd that I would not be able to achieve stock ride height on the front with these coilovers but I probably could set it at stock height on the rear.

I cannot remember what my R53 felt like stock when the suspension was good as I drove it a long time with worn struts. I thought it rode awful like that. I replaced my entire suspension about a year ago and my current set up is more compliant than my worn, stock suspension but the ride is definitely track oriented.



My rear suspension:


The Hotchkis swaybar next to the stock rear swaybar and the Hotchkis adjustable lower rear control arms with stock upper rear control arms.



My car when I finished the suspension refresh:

 

I had similar issues getting proper ride height on the front with my Feal co. I bypassed RMW and dealt directly with Feal. They sent a set of revised front bodies with different perch heights and I was able to dial in 1/2-3/4" drop from stock and be in the middle of the co body. Original co from RMW was slammed and rubbing even when maxed out.

 

Fwiw you can see the small diameter of swift springs in the pic. Certainly helps with clearance. I forgot that was one of the reasons I steered away from ohlins originally. Tire rub is certainly more is an issue with larger diameter springs. Ymmv

 

This thread is full of good info and great photos.
The OE susp was killer/bone jarring on the roads I drove daily. I installed Koni FSD's with oe springs and greatly improved the road quality. The FSD's softened the jarring and impact noise.
2 things have transpired for me in the last 2 weeks causing me to do a rear suspension rebuild with new front struts.
I got caught stuck this summer on a 3 mile section of gravel road that was pure wash board :-( During and permanently after, I've had a rattle/clunk in the rear suspension that's gotten worse *(lifted the back end and found the right rear strut bushings gone).
At the same time, I've had the chance to purchase a set of aluminum trailing arms.
Since it's all coming a part, and the springs and shocks have excessive rust, I decided it's time to upgrade the struts.
Reading reviews, my ultimate choice would be a set of KW Club Sports, but its out of my price range. Then learning that ST's are KW coil overs, but more affordable. I've chosen the ST XTA's as they come with the front camber plates.