Everything is controllable as stock because it ALL goes through the stock head unit. You can adjust the front/rear fade.

I don't know if there is a L/R balance (as I've not wanted to adjust that), but if it's already there on your headunit, swapping the speakers and adding an amp using this system will not change that control.

 

Has anyone tried the Integral Soundstage kit without the subwoofer?

For someone who does not require deep, loud base, would it be a mistake to think I might be satisfied with just Soundstage?

Or if I did decide to add a subwoofer later - something smaller and cheaper than the Integral sub - would it be as easy as hooking it up the Integral amp?

 

That would be NO! The IA sound stage system without the sub would come with a 2 channel amp and with the the sub you get a 4 channel amp. So you would not only need a sub you would need an amp too. Having said that you would also need to get a signal from the HU to the sub amp. So for The $799 that the sub addition costs you not only get a sub you get a amp a box all the hardware all the wire and connectors and the false floor to conceal the sub. Not to mention that this sub is perfectly tuned for the Mini's cabin without distortion, crisp and clean! IMO if you plan to add a sub the IA sub would be the only way to go!

 

You can't do it in two stages as rccyber has said. You'll be stuck without a sub unless you want to redo the install.

I've run my system without the sub while installing a spare tire, and I can tell you that the bass is great, but it is NOT rear-window-rattling great. You need the sub for that.

Almost all of the rock music I listen to does not hit low enough levels to activate the sub in a big way, so if all you listen to is rock, you'll be happy with the soundstage, but if you like pop (or God forbid if you think rap is any good), then you'll want the sub.

 

Thought I'd chime in here...it now IS possible to easily add either the Subwoofer to the Soundstage or vice versa. This is something that is being addressed with our new signal wiring harness that will start shipping in a couple weeks. Folks will also now have the option to pay a small premium for the four channel amp (instead of the 2ch) so that they are ready to install the Subwoofer (or Soundstage) whenever ready.

This new harness is pretty amazing - all the wiring for the entire signal side of the system - the X9331 connection, all the low level signal wiring, the wiring for the subwoofer remote level control, and all the speaker wiring - ALL of that is now in one pre-cut, pre-terminated, pre-labeled, and pre-assembled single harness assembly (for those of you who have older versions of the system, the power wiring was converted to a fully pre-terminated/cut/assembled harness last year). To give you a sense of the scale of this harness, there is over 260 feet of wiring in it! All of the specific circuitry required to allow working with the MINI headunit is already built into the harness.

Every bit of the installation is now plug-n-play. The harness looks - and IS - just like the factory wiring looms that run through out the rest of the vehicle. It dramatically shortens and simplifies the installation, which those of you who have done the installation can understand. The vast majority of the installation time is now simply the removal and replacement of panels and trim, something that is very easy with our instructions.

It's really nice to read reviews and feedback like this, just wanted to thank you Ian, as well as everyone else, for taking the time to share it! Thank you!

 

I do not want to rattle my windows, and would be very reluctant to pay $800 to engage in that activity.

 

Then you have your answer my friend! If you DO get the sub, don't expect it to be too noticeable outside the car. Maybe it's because I don't turn it up TOO high, but people don't know I have a sub until they ride with me. It's a 10" though, not dual 12", so... not sure where your expectations at. What style music do you listen to?

 

OK, I'm confused. Do you mean it "... now IS possible to easily add either the Subwoofer to the Soundstage or vice versa ..." OR are you saying it WILL be possible when the new wiring harness starts shipping in a couple of weeks? And by "easily" do you mean "easy-if-you-don't-mind-spending-a-lot-of-extra-money-for-a second-amp" or "easy, as in, you don't have to replace the amp and wiring"?

The description for the Soundstage on Integral's website says this, under the heading Soundstage Overview: "ARC Audio KS125.4 MINI Amplifier delivering 250 Watts to the Sub and 75 Watts to each Soundstage channel" That sounds like a 4 channel amp ready for a subwoofer to me. A few paragraphs down it says: "...for a complete system - see the subwoofer page for details on that system." From that sentence, I infer the 4-channel amp, subwoofer-ready, as described, comes with the Soundstage -- and not only if you get "the complete system" (described elsewhere).

I would be very unhappy if I had just parted with $1500 for what is described on the website, but got a 2-channel amp instead.

Kevin Bennett cleared this up for me in reply to an email in which he confirmed what Ian Landesman and rccyber said - the 2-channel is substituted for the 4-channel if you don't buy the subwoofer at the same time - but that is not at all clear from the website.

I am a lot less interested now that I've discovered the Soundstage kit is not really subwoofer-ready. Maybe after the new wiring harness is ready - and, depending on what, exactly, is meant by: "... the option to pay a small premium for the four channel amp (instead of the 2ch)..." - then I may consider Integral Audio in the future, but for now I'm still searching for a more affordable solution.

It makes no sense to me to pay more for the audio system in my car than the one I have in my house. The added distractions of driving, and the added noise of the road are always going to make the car a less-than-perfect environment for listening to music, so I am less willing to pay for a perfect car stereo until after I've achieved that goal in my living room.

 

Oh runswithsizzers...

My poor poor friend...

If you want to be happy with your sound system, you are going to pay BIG... with either one of two things (or both if you decide to DIY).

$ or time.

There is no CHEAP solution here. You COULD buy speakers, but EVERYTHING on our cars is TINY. The space where the speakers go are not deep enough to accommodate a lot of bass speakers for example. Kevin is offering you something that's MUCH MUCH MUCH more valuable than the $2300 (or $1500 if you go soundstage only) that he is asking. He is saving you TIME and EFFORT.

If you don't believe me, just drive to your nearby audio specialist store. NOT a big box that will lie to you and make you pay out the nose later to fix everything, but a small word-of-mouth type operation. I made an appt, and told the guy I had $2000 was interested in buying the IA system, but wasn't sure about the install. I told him I didn't want to waste his time if he couldn't help me be happy and be a little easier on my wallet. We spent about 5-10 minutes talking, he spent about 10 minutes pulling up kits and telling me about similar jobs, and when I asked for a ballpark figure he told me $3000-5000 installed. Now that is HEADACHE free, and with Kevin's kit, you've got a BIG (but doable) project installing it, but it will WORK, you'll be HAPPY, and your wallet will of COURSE be lighter.

I hope I don't come off as rude or justifying my own expensive purchase. I just want to make sure you have reasonable expectations. To be happy (really happy) with your sound, you're going to spend big cash. There are some REALLY good threads Kevin has contributed in (find them that way) of MINI guys putting MONSTER systems in their cars. They've spent years working the bugs out (time & effort) and spent many many thousands of dollars. If you can't spend the cash right now, start saving. You'll regret putting any money into the car's sound system if it still sounds like trash to your ears.

 

Mostly rock, but eclectic, including a fair amount of world: right now it's Dengue Fever, Atahualpa, Ecuador Manta, Eurythmics, Portishead, just discovered Cake, and a smattering of older stuff from Pink Floyd, ELO, Queen, etc. Occasional classical (espc. baroque), but not much.

Two systems in the house - stereo for music and a basic 3-box system on the TV (left-center-right). No subwoofer on either. The AR-15s on the home stereo have 8" woofers and are down 3 dB at 48 Hz (per mfg). I'm satisfied with that. Seems like 10" within the confines of a MINI Cooper is overkill, especially if I have to trade my spare tire for it.

 

You got the "poor" part right.

Yeah, I think I've done enough research to see how the land lays. The elegant options are few, and expensive, and then there are the other options - much less elegant, and only slightly less expensive. But I've learned there are two ways to get what I want out of life: I can get more - or want less.

 

Cake is an awesome band! I like having the sub for comfort eagle ESPECIALLY, but it's a modest premium.

You don't lose your spare with the sub. I'm driving performance summer tires (ditched the run flats, but to be honest, the ride is only a TAD better) and have an OEM spare tire kit in the wheel well. The sub fits over it and allows the stock insert (came with my spare, different than the original styrofoam tray) allows full clearance of the 10".

You would probably be happy without the sub. You'll always wonder, "What if...?" though.

One of the BIGGEST reasons I despised the stock speakers were the rattles. I had to chase those out after getting the IA system too. If you are driving a clubman, take off the panelling on the club door and silicone the crap out of that speaker grill. You'll be very happy with that. Also turn the fader to ~ 75% front speakers. You'll be very happy with that also!

When you crave more, call Kevin. Might be worth waiting for his new equipment. I was one of the first to order the clubman setup and I did NOT feel like a beta tester. Great customer support!

 

I did not know that! From the (small) photos in the install instructions, I assumed the spare had to come out. Can everything which is now in that compartment stay there? Guess I should be asking Kevin or another R56 owner - mine may be different from your Clubman?

So the platform or boot floor is elevated after the woofer install, compared to stock? About how much? When we load the R56 for 2 weeks of car camping, we need every square inch we can get. (Already have removed the back seat.) Is the surface above the sub durable and weight bearing?

Yeah, I believe I'd be happy without the sub, BUT, in case it turns out I'm wrong and I decide to add one later, I'd like to have the wiring in place. And if the sub-ready amp is not too much more money than the 2-channel, I'd rather put that in up-front, too.

 

EDIT* photos of my boot added to replace confusing description.

Do the photos help?

I wouldn't stand on it, but it is sturdy, and anything you put on the 'floor' before, should be fine to put there after since the support railings are not removed. It's easy to take the sub out and in fact, you'd have to in order to change a flat.

I had asked Kevin about doing a two stage also, but I'm glad I didn't. Sometimes things happen... small businesses fold (hopefully won't happen to Kevin, but it's a reality), or in this case, it sounds like Kevin is changing the parts he uses and PERHAPS if you wait too long, the stage II portion of your install won't be possible later due to the amp being discontinued? Kevin would make sure it'd work for you if you had trouble, but the whole point of his product is it just WORKS, so... take advantage of that.

If you think you want the sub, just buy it. I felt like the install was doable, but if my friend down the street asked me to help him, I would be in a 'supervisor' role ONLY. I would NOT want to run wires to the boot again. You won't mark the wires well enough. You'll tell yourself you will, and you won't, and then when you go to install the sub, you'll have to rip the carpet up (again) to figure out which wires are which. ONE INSTALL. Trust me.

 

I DID do the install twice. I started out with the subwoofer only. The Soundstage didnt exist at that time. I was happy with the addition of the sub to the HK system that I had for a while and then realized that the Sub could only do so much for the shortcomings of the low powered HK system.
I then purchased and installed the Soundstage, having to replace the 2 channel amp with the 4 channel, and re-doing the wiring. Kevin helped via phone whenever I had a question. I have never regretted spending the money on this system. When you consider how much MINI charges for accessories, this system is not out of line for what you get. I have a $30,000 MINI with a sound system that is better than my wife's $47,000 BMW.

 

Thanks for the photos, but no, the photos don't really help me, as an R56 owner. Your Clubman is obviously way different from my R56 Justa.

I just looked under my boot floor (for the first time since I bought the car 3 years ago), and I see I've been making false assumptions based on my misconception about what is really going on under there. I don't believe the subwoofer install would affect my spare at all, but I've emailed Kevin to be sure. The styro insert and tool kit may be a different story, but from the small photo in the install instructions, I believe there is room for that, too.

I still need to learn how much higher the boot floor is after the subwoofer, compared to stock.

 

I have a $20,000 MINI and I'm trying to prevent it from turning into a $30,000 MINI

 

I have a 40K Mini and soon becoming a 50K mini and i've only done a few mods. The upgrades cost a lot but in the end its worth it because it's your Mini!
Runnswith sizzers, I have a R56 with the sound stage+woofer system so
i did an experiment for you yesterday, i had a 3 hour round trip trip to take so on the first 1.5 i unplugged the sub woofer and played Dave Mathews on my ipod. It sounded pretty good i can't lie. But on my way home i plugged the sub back in and played the same ipod and the same Dave Mathews songs and let me be clear, it was like i was at the concert watching them. The sub just added what was missing,depth, the fill, the bass lines, the drum kick, the double drum kick.
How can i explain it, lets say that the sound stage system is a ice cream sunday, the front channel is the ice cream, the sub woofer is the whipped cream, the chocolate sauce, the nuts, and the cherry on top.
So i guess i'm saying if you can afford it now or at a later date, the sub woofer is the way to go! Cheers!

 

Wow! Thanks for the experiment - and the metaphor!

 

Sorry for the delayed response. The new harness works like this: The Soundstage, Subwoofer, and Soundstage+Subwoofer systems all now ship with the same harness (it will be an option on the subwoofer-only system). That harness has all the connections for each system already built in. So adding the Subwoofer to the Soundstage is now just a matter of installing the subwoofer and connecting it. You will have the option of purchasing the 4ch amp with the Soundstage by paying the $100 difference in cost between the two systems.

The old harnesses are all gone, so any new orders are shipping with the new harness. Here's a tip: I haven't updated the site to the new price - a $100 increase - so orders placed between now and then get the new harness at the old price.

My apologies for not having better, clearer information here - was just trying to let you know what was coming down the pipe before it is actually available. I also apologize for the website - it needs work, and we are working on it. Product development and customer service always take priority though, and there have been other complicating factors, so progress has been slow. Let me know if I can clarify anything else.

 

Some clarification regarding the false floors and amount of space taken up by the subwoofer system:

-the R55 and R56 have completely different systems. The R55 system is completely underneath the factory false floor, which is weight-bearing. The R55's false floor that we ship is simply a cosmetic panel that covers the small area of the spare tire well that would otherwise be exposed. It is sturdy, and will hold anything you could likely fit down there, but it is only seen/exposed when the factory floor is removed. With the R55 system you retain about 2/3 of the area underneath the factory false floor, and 100% of the spare tire. There is no impact to the spare tire, tool carrier, or any other factory system.

-the R56 false floor covers the entire area of the boot floor and is always visible. It is supported in 6 places and you could jump up and down on it if you like. Our design-goal was that it needed to be able to withstand having two cases of beer dropped from a 1 ft height with no problems (other than the inability to open said dropped beer). With the R56 system the false floor sits 5" above the floor of the boot, however, you still have some of this space available for some very useful storage space for those little items that would otherwise be rolling around the boot. You also gain a level load floor with the seats down. And the entire subwoofer is removable in 30 seconds if you need the space. Really. All-in-all, even though you lose a small amount of space, useful storage is actually generally improved by adding the subwoofer. I've added a few pics below....



This image is from an actual customer, all packed up for a camping trip...

 

It may not for you, that is something only you can decide. But the opposite is generally true for most of the US population. The majority of people spend far more time listening to music in their vehicles than anywhere else. The trend has leveled a bit, but even so is still increasing. And while I can address road noise and other vehicle shortcomings, no home audio manufacturer can child or spouse-proof a listening room. Yo Gabba Gabba and Dora the Explorer may be great, but I don't think you are going to appreciate them more over a better sound system. That's not to say you shouldn't have a great home setup - I certainly do. I'm just saying that if you are evaluating the value of one over the other, most people will get more listening value from the system they actually listen to the most.

One of the reasons people are so universally happy with our system is that they find it is transformative. Their driving/commuting experience becomes something it never was before with the addition of truly fantastic sounding music. A place where they spend so much of their time - their vehicle - becomes tremendously more enjoyable.

 

Kevin, thanks so much for clearing that up! The photos really helped. Looks like a nice install! Is that Baltic birch used for the false floor?

But your customer must have just got started packing; here is what a MINI looks like loaded for camping...

But I don't suppose putting all that stuff on top of the subwoofer is going to improve the sound any.

 

Yes - the false floor is CNC machined 10mm Baltic Birch. The perforated metal grille is 14 ga powder coated steel. It is a solid assembly.

Improve, no. But you can cram pack the entire boot full with no worries. You'll notice if you look at the false floor supports that there is more space there than would be required for simple clearance of the woofer excursion. That was done for a reason - to allow more than enough air space for the sub to function properly even with the boot FULLY loaded. The more you fill the boot (and the more solid the objects in the boot**), the more you will notice a reduction in bass volume. This is one of the times the remote level control **** for the subwoofer comes in handy. The reduction in bass volume is a bit frequency-dependent (higher sub bass freqs are reduced disproportionately more) so your frequency response is altered a bit, but hey, you can't have everything.

**Sound doesn't travel through anything - not even something extremely lightweight like paper. What happens is that the air being vibrated by the sound wave vibrates the object, which vibrates the air on the other side of the object, creating a new sound wave. Sound prefers to simply travel around an object - through other air. So as you load up the boot, generally there is still plenty of air and the reduction in sound volume is minimal. The more you load up the boot, and the more you load it with solid objects (eliminating more of the air path), the greater the reduction in volume. If you were to take a hypothetical worst-case scenario and pour the boot full of cement, you'd still have a relatively significant gap below the front edge of the false floor, with a relatively decent air path through the foam at the bottom of the rear seats, as well as some direct air path at the edges. You'd notice a dramatic decrease in volume, but you'd have bigger problems anyway, what with your boot being full of cement and all.

These are the kinds of details we spend tremendous amounts of time thinking about and finding solutions for, things that wouldn't even occur to other manufacturers. Using the above as an example, look at every other commercially available subwoofer enclosure for the MINI - they virtually all have the woofer in a side-mounted enclosure in the boot. Ignoring their acoustic short-comings, just look at the function: the usability of the boot is greatly impaired, they don't remove easily, and if you were to pack the boot full you'd a) have no usable volume, and b) eventually damage the woofer (all woofers rely on cone movement to move air to cool the voice coil, and no air space means no or reduced cone movement and dramatically reduced power-handling). And that's just one part of just the form aspects of just the subwoofer enclosure.

 

Kevin,
Thanks for the second picture you posted. I never thought of using the areas on each side of the sub box for storage. You just saved me some room in the boot!