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Roll bar
I'm putting a roll bar in my GP and would like some advice on which roll bar would be best. I use the car on the street and track and will be doing around 18 track days a year. I'm going to use a Sparco competition seat that I will install for track days. I was using the quickfit shroth harnesses and a harness bar, can anyone suggest good harnesses for the new set-up, I also use a Hans device.
I have a local place that carries the safety devices roll bar and can order the auto power. Are either of these what I should be looking at? Thanks in advance Gary |
honestly if you want the best fit possible you'll have to have one built for you (any local race shop should be able to do it), most of your bolt in kits can be a little hit or miss and you can expect to modify them a bit to get them to fit properly (I put a kirk 4 pt in my E30 so ask me how I know! :razz:). I'm not saying the kit bars will fit like garbage, just be prepared to spend some time with it if you want a super clean install. For belts its a matter of preference, I have Sabelt's in my car a really like them and I've use Schroth's in an instructors car as like them as well. The Schroth's seemed like they had a few more "bell and whistles" to help in comfort but I didn't notice any major difference in a 30 min session to be honest, and I really like the cam mechanism for the Sabelt's. Just make sure you at least step up to a 5 pt (your junk will thank you in an accident if go with a 6pt).
Where in NJ are you? Driving impressions (www.teamdi.com) is right in dover if you're in the morris county area, Bob and Aaron are great people to deal with and will make sure you get the right stuff. Also if your cool with mail order I've met the HMS guys at events and they are excellent to deal with as well. Also were you at the may GVC event at the glen? Saw a GP there curious if it was your's. |
Safety Devices has a very nice roll bar with an optional harness bar available. The harness bar does not have guides for the belts, they would need to be added.
As to belts find a set you like. All of the top brands, Sparco, TeamTech, Impact, Simpson, Sabelt and I'm sure I am forgetting some, are all very good. Get at least a 5pt belt but a 6pt would be even better. My MINI is equipped with the Safety Devices Bar and Team Tech Belts. I can post pics if desired. |
I have a used Auto Power that I will sell for a reasonble price. I removed it from my spec racer when I converted the car to Grand Am Specs. (#198)
Easy bolt in with removable side bars for street use. Randy |
Get a six point belt. They are the minimum requirement by most all race organizations. Five points are not allowed any longer.
Any SFI of FIA belt is fine. I use a Schroth and it's very expensive. I'd trade it for a good 'ol G Force which is one of the least expensive. I used to run one and think I like it better then the Schroth. Make sure you seat will have that sub belt hole or else it's worthless. Note, most HPDE groups require the passenger seat to be the same typ as the driver seat. Keep that in mind. |
i have an appointment w/ Race Car Builders of South Florida for a custom built cage. they quoted me a price on a par w/ most off the shelf bolt in bars. four point roll/harness bar w/ diagonal brace and rear x-brace. well under $1000 installed including mounting points for my 6-pt harnesses. this is a well respected shop in my area. check your local cage builders before ordering such an important piece of safety equipment on-line....my .o2
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Thanks Guy's for all your input, I'm definitely going to go with the 6 point harness. I'm getting a price for a custom roll bar, otherwise I will be using the safety devices.
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Originally Posted by onasled
(Post 2264633)
Make sure you seat will have that sub belt hole or else it's worthless. Note, most HPDE groups require the passenger seat to be the same typ as the driver seat. Keep that in mind. |
Originally Posted by gnatster
(Post 2264368)
My MINI is equipped with the Safety Devices Bar and Team Tech Belts. I can post pics if desired. |
Originally Posted by rpob5t
(Post 2264340)
Where in NJ are you? Driving impressions (www.teamdi.com) is right in dover if you're in the morris county area, Bob and Aaron are great people to deal with and will make sure you get the right stuff. Also if your cool with mail order I've met the HMS guys at events and they are excellent to deal with as well. Also were you at the may GVC event at the glen? Saw a GP there curious if it was your's. I live in Cresskill (Bergen County), I was at driving impressions last year picking up a helmet, nice people. I was at the Glen with Chin and Trackmasters in May, I believe the GP you saw may have been Newbs49, you would know mine by the 3 lions crest roof decal. |
Here's something I would think about before you start dumping boat loads of money making it a "good" track car, is this the right car to start with?
After having done lots of track days and with a MINI that had more money in it than I want know my answer would be no. I just spent over $2000.00 on brakes, wheels bearings it never ends. My rotors cost $150.00 ea and last 4 or 5 events the ZO 6 guys spend $30.00 and they'll blow me off the track. Ask Don what me thinks, you can get something that would make a good track car for a whole lot less that it will cost you too make the MINI a fair one. I'm in the upper run group now and I spend too much of my time giving point byes. It makes the events less fun when you know your going to be one of the slower cars on track. If only I had listened. Listen to Don he knows. How many front wheel drive hatch back race cars do you see? |
Originally Posted by emmathecheesedog
(Post 2265446)
Here's something I would think about before you start dumping boat loads of money making it a "good" track car, is this the right car to start with?
After having done lots of track days and with a MINI that had more money in it than I want know my answer would be no. I just spent over $2000.00 on brakes, wheels bearings it never ends. My rotors cost $150.00 ea and last 4 or 5 events the ZO 6 guys spend $30.00 and they'll blow me off the track. Ask Don what me thinks, you can get something that would make a good track car for a whole lot less that it will cost you too make the MINI a fair one. I'm in the upper run group now and I spend too much of my time giving point byes. It makes the events less fun when you know your going to be one of the slower cars on track. If only I had listened. Listen to Don he knows. How many front wheel drive hatch back race cars do you see? Thanks for good advice, I've been talking to Don for while about this. My plan is to become a good track driver in the mini, once this is accomplished I plan to buy a Exige cup car (my favourite car). However I know what you mean about spending money on the mini :roll:, that being said I have a wife who is now insisting on more safety especially as I have 5 kid's to think of. She gave me a ear full about the roll bar after my friend rolled his mini at WGI when we were there in May, fortunately no one was injured. |
Originally Posted by garylimey
(Post 2265394)
Thanks for tip:thumbsup: , I will look into a compatible passenger seat.
you may want to hold off on that! if you are close to being SOLO qualified, then you are about to spend extra cash on something that no one is going to use! |
I've got a friend who has an Exige cup car that is going to be for sale soon, had lots of work done on it by HyperSport.
That's my plan also but I now have a MINI that I could not give away it's an endless circle. I don't have any answers I'm thinking that the thing to have done was once you found out DE's were something you wanted to do that's the time to get a real track car, learn to drive in that car. An Exige or a ZO6 or an M3 is still going to have a learning curve after a MINI. |
Harness - TeamTech
http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSIf...0/DSC_0468.JPG Some features I really like about these is the built in padding. Check out the TeamTech site http://www.teamtechmotorsports.com/index.html The Energy Pads spread the load over a wider area than normal belts of this type. There is some debate over the sternum strap. The strap connects the two shoulder belts at chest level preventing them from spreading in the event of an incident. Some say this hinders rescue first responders since it's something else they need to look for in order to extricate a non-responsive driver. Others counter that preventing the belts from spreading saves lives. You'll also note my seats do not have a pass thru in bottom cushion. For me the way I sit and with my physique this is not an issue. It's not ideal when I have a string bean of an instructor with me as there is a chance they could slide forward in a frontal impact. I'm looking at new seats. Sternum Strap and sewn in padding. It's hard to see the Sternum Energy Pad in the picture as they are black and so is the seat. http://lh5.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSJP...0/DSC_0470.JPG Price wise there were a little less than a full set of Schroth or Sparco belts. Price was a secondary consideration, comfort and ease of use were more important in my decision. The shop I purchased them from and that did the install sells multiple brands. They also were very contentious when mounting. Two of the staff climbed over and around me taking all kinds of measurements making sure the angles were all proper. I can't stress enough that proper installation is the key to comfort and safety. If you don't know what you are doing when installing let the pros do it! Harness guides. One of the issues with a MINI that often the harness bar will have a curve and the outer belt could possibly move in an incident. Guides such as these will prevent that possibility. http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSGf...0/DSC_0463.JPG Roll Bar Safety Devices brand from the UK. http://lh4.ggpht.com/gnatster/Rjf5G1...0/DSCN0262.JPG If I was to do it again I would go to a local race shop and have one built. This bar is designed for use with a non-sunroof car, we had to modify the legs to make it fit in my sunroof car. The design is really the back part of the full cage and had tabs to mount the halo and door bars. These had to be cut off as they would have protruded into the passenger area. Rear Mounting Points http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/Rjf5EV...0/DSCN0257.JPG I like where the rear section connects to the body with this bar more than I did with the Autopower bar. It does reduce the usable interior space more than the Autopower bar does but I think it mounts to a stronger area of the body. Hope that helps... |
Originally Posted by LgEnf
(Post 2265571)
you may want to hold off on that!
if you are close to being SOLO qualified, then you are about to spend extra cash on something that no one is going to use! |
Originally Posted by LgEnf
(Post 2265571)
you may want to hold off on that!
if you are close to being SOLO qualified, then you are about to spend extra cash on something that no one is going to use! One does have to question prepping a MINI to this level when for the same costs you can obtain a "better" track car. It's one of those things that snowballs. One does an event and gets hooked. The cycle starts, first it's little seemingly inexpensive items. You get better and better and look to add more, next thing you know you've slowly dumped serious money into a MINI. Heck I could have a brand new Z06 Vette for what I have in my MINI. I'll never make it the most advanced run group with PCA in my MINI, the speed differences are too great. I'll also never get back what I have invested, but I sure do have fun and isn't that what it's really all about? |
Originally Posted by gnatster
(Post 2265590)
Harness - TeamTech
http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSIf...0/DSC_0468.JPG Some features I really like about these is the built in padding. Check out the TeamTech site http://www.teamtechmotorsports.com/index.html The Energy Pads spread the load over a wider area than normal belts of this type. There is some debate over the sternum strap. The strap connects the two shoulder belts at chest level preventing them from spreading in the event of an incident. Some say this hinders rescue first responders since it's something else they need to look for in order to extricate a non-responsive driver. Others counter that preventing the belts from spreading saves lives. You'll also note my seats do not have a pass thru in bottom cushion. For me the way I sit and with my physique this is not an issue. It's not ideal when I have a string bean of an instructor with me as there is a chance they could slide forward in a frontal impact. I'm looking at new seats. Sternum Strap and sewn in padding. It's hard to see the Sternum Energy Pad in the picture as they are black and so is the seat. http://lh5.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSJP...0/DSC_0470.JPG Price wise there were a little less than a full set of Schroth or Sparco belts. Price was a secondary consideration, comfort and ease of use were more important in my decision. The shop I purchased them from and that did the install sells multiple brands. They also were very contentious when mounting. Two of the staff climbed over and around me taking all kinds of measurements making sure the angles were all proper. I can't stress enough that proper installation is the key to comfort and safety. If you don't know what you are doing when installing let the pros do it! Harness guides. One of the issues with a MINI that often the harness bar will have a curve and the outer belt could possibly move in an incident. Guides such as these will prevent that possibility. http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/RvmSGf...0/DSC_0463.JPG Roll Bar Safety Devices brand from the UK. http://lh4.ggpht.com/gnatster/Rjf5G1...0/DSCN0262.JPG If I was to do it again I would go to a local race shop and have one built. This bar is designed for use with a non-sunroof car, we had to modify the legs to make it fit in my sunroof car. The design is really the back part of the full cage and had tabs to mount the halo and door bars. These had to be cut off as they would have protruded into the passenger area. Rear Mounting Points http://lh6.ggpht.com/gnatster/Rjf5EV...0/DSCN0257.JPG I like where the rear section connects to the body with this bar more than I did with the Autopower bar. It does reduce the usable interior space more than the Autopower bar does but I think it mounts to a stronger area of the body. Hope that helps... |
Couple of thoughts on the posted pics of Nates interior.
First thought is that it just looks like the harness bar is way too low and possibly too far away from the seats. This has been discussed before, by me, and usually targets me as someone who has nothing good to say. If you are building a track car then make sure you do everything the best way possible. I will tell you that there are some techs, mostly in SCCA and BMWCCA that will not pass that setup. With the death of a Mini driver just last week in an HPDE you can bet that these cars will be scrutinized severely. No joke, you can die if this stuff is not right. I've always warned of this from day one. Make a plan. Know what seats, bar, belts you want to get. Make sure they all work together. Nate, get those belts looped correctly! :wink: |
Yeah, those belts were being adjusted when the pics were taken, since then they have been passed thru again and are properly installed. I should have noted that so folks didn't think it was correct and have issues.
Example of proper belt install. http://lh3.ggpht.com/gnatster/SEB5E9...0/DSCN0968.JPG As to the location of the harness bar. It might be the angle the pic was shot at. When we installed the belts we measured to make sure the belt angles were all within spec. Now this is a problem with an out of the box bar since we are all different sized people. At the HPDE I attended over Memorial Day weekend with the PCA I asked one of the National Club Race tech inspectors to take a look at my setup. While it would never begin to pass for full race he was quite happy with the current setup for DE's. |
I should add...
It would behoove me to add a bar from the harness bar to the seat to stabilize and prevent the seat from folding back in a incident. http://www.bkauto.com/universal/images/R-9019.jpg http://www.bkauto.com/universal/r9019.php |
Originally Posted by onasled
(Post 2266760)
Couple of thoughts on the posted pics of Nates interior.
First thought is that it just looks like the harness bar is way too low and possibly too far away from the seats. This has been discussed before, by me, and usually targets me as someone who has nothing good to say. If you are building a track car then make sure you do everything the best way possible. I will tell you that there are some techs, mostly in SCCA and BMWCCA that will not pass that setup. With the death of a Mini driver just last week in an HPDE you can bet that these cars will be scrutinized severely. No joke, you can die if this stuff is not right. I've always warned of this from day one. Make a plan. Know what seats, bar, belts you want to get. Make sure they all work together. Nate, get those belts looped correctly! :wink: Thanks for your help, I'll thinking about the Sparco pro adv seat for me, it fitted me really well with good shoulder harness slot heights, the passenger seat I'm not sure yet. when I go to stable energies on Tuesday we well see if seat fits the mini ok. The harnesses will be 6 point, still undecided on which ones. The roll bar install will be finished at Precision, they are going to add in any necessary extra bars/supports and set it up properly with the seats and harnesses |
Originally Posted by gnatster
(Post 2265629)
One does have to question prepping a MINI to this level when for the same costs you can obtain a "better" track car. It's one of those things that snowballs. One does an event and gets hooked. The cycle starts, first it's little seemingly inexpensive items. You get better and better and look to add more, next thing you know you've slowly dumped serious money into a MINI. Heck I could have a brand new Z06 Vette for what I have in my MINI. I'll never make it the most advanced run group with PCA in my MINI, the speed differences are too great. I'll also never get back what I have invested, but I sure do have fun and isn't that what it's really all about?
my appointment w/ Race Car Builders of South Florida is for July 7th. they will have the car for three days to fab the roll/harness bar and install harnesses. |
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Originally Posted by emmathecheesedog
(Post 2267866)
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