R59 vs Z4
Hello all, has anyone driven both the R59 and the Z4 (1st or 2nd gen) roadsters? Thoughts on which one you like better?
My R59 is fantastic but just wondering when in a few years it gets too old. Or if that tree in the office parking lot lands on my R59... or... something else requires me to replace it, the Z4 comes to mind. The Boxster is nice but I don't know if I want the maintenance issues. So any MINI fans have thoughts on the Z4? Thanks! |
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Had a z4, loved it but needed something bigger for family. No R59 experience! Wish I still had the Z.
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Test drove a Z4 for a day.
The Z4 is bigger, better performance, and RWD, yet feels more cramped in the cabin and it has half the trunk space; and in my eyes the Z4 has a tenth the charm of the R59. I only get used cars, at the same price point you get an older Z4 with twice the mileage. I actually preferred the Z3 era M Roadster I test drove. If I didn't already own the R59 I might have picked up the M, but again the tiny boot would be a concern. My wife and I go on 3-5 day road trips and weekly Costco runs; we need a car than can fit a couple of suitcases in the trunk. Both the Z3 and Z4, and most 2 seater convertibles, have trunks that are too small. |
I've autocrossed both and greatly prefer the R59's nimble handling. If I was buying for the long term I'd go with a Miata MX5.
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Don, HSA, thanks for the good information. I would imagine that the base Z4 and S/JCW R59 would have similar lap times. The R59 better possibly because of the strong and precise handling. The top six cylinder Z4 is better but priced at mid range Porsche money which makes it only for the true BMW fan boys. ☺
I will likely test drive one but you are right on the trunk space - it would be missed. Here is a 1800w generator, chain saw, fuel tanks, power tools, etc in my R59 while working on my cabin in the mountains. 👍 https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...089c1d90e8.jpg |
Originally Posted by Audiophile_Mark
(Post 4137687)
I will likely test drive one but you are right on the trunk space - it would be missed. Here is a 1800w generator, chain saw, fuel tanks, power tools, etc in my R59 while working on my cabin in the mountains. 👍 https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...089c1d90e8.jpg |
They are very different cars. The Z4 looks and feels higher quality with a better sounding and feeling engine (unless you select the N20 motor from the latest models), and performs better in several categories, like highway speed and fast corner handling. The 59 will be a funner drive, with better slow corner handling and have a slightly roomier interior.
I've settled on kind of a compromise as my daily driver, albeit not quite so modern: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=56C8FA6E |
Yea the Z3 is closer to it then the Z4. The Z3 M coupe is a whole different child. But it would be great to drive Z3 M vs JCW Coupe' back to back.
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If I had about double the price of a Roadster I might be looking at this:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-...R015_307FC.jpg 230HP, mid engined, looks like a mini-Ferrari, no power steering, minimal luxuries. What's not to like? |
^Yeap^.
I want to drive it. On paper it looks like a super sweet, modern, light, raw sports car. The only thing that confounds me is that the car journalists that I like and trust are a little bit tepid about it. Compare Chris Harris' take on it vs. his take on the Cayman GTS or GT4. |
Alpha's are being sold through the Fiat dealer network.
Not to be too snobbish, but how is that going to work :wink: The 4C is a sexy car though, and the roadster version looks even better. What do the Top Gear guys say? Every one needs to own an Alpha at least once in their life? |
Originally Posted by dongood
(Post 4140629)
Alpha's are being sold through the Fiat dealer network.
Not to be too snobbish, but how is that going to work :wink: The 4C is a sexy car though, and the roadster version looks even better. What do the Top Gear guys say? Every one needs to own an Alpha at least once in their life? On the other side, in the UK MINIs are sold at or alongside BMW in many places, and I don't think that made the BMW owners very happy. I know from experience here when I went to Herb Chambers BMW/MINI in Boston to try to buy my 2003 the BMW side of the house didn't seem very happy about having ordinary people buying cheap little cars sullying their pristine dealership. Alfa get the Guilia over here next year I think, so when they get another model or two and get some sales I'm sure they'll figure out how to sell them. |
Originally Posted by dongood
(Post 4140629)
Every one needs to own an Alpha at least once in their life?
Though I thought the C4 was a little underpowered for its $$ I could be wrong, It's been a while I have not checked it out. But all these cars start to dilute the point imo. If I wanted a true sport roadster I would have looked at a used one elsewhere, and the list would probably be pretty decent. That's not why we picked the MINI. Personally, smallish, affordable, some quality interior to some level, some style, and with a dash of actual everyday and traveling practicality (including front or all wheel drive) is what I would still look for because the rest is mostly nice as a third car when you have extra cash to waste. Don't miss understand me. I love these cars. It's just not in the realm of reason for us right now :) And, yes I've always have had a big soft spot for Alfas :grin: edit: Correction, I guess the C4 is that light it doesn't need much power to achieve its 0-60 in 4.1s |
I like the looks of the Alpha too. I wonder about reliability? More than likely I will keep the R59 and get a used Boxster. The Z4 is kind of disappointing. It looks so good on the outside but slides around test tracks like an old Buick.
As for selling MINI alongside BMW, the dealership that I purchased my R59 at also sells the Rolls-Royce line. Of course you must pass the Rolls and 7 series parked up front to get to the 3, 5, and MINI lines in the back. I guess they figure old farts can't walk that far and should keep these models up front? I haven't heard anyone complain but if you look at the engineering between the two core brands it overlaps (radio, seat warmers, mirrors, etc.) so they are all premium vehicles. Some are just more premium than others. |
" As for selling MINI alongside BMW, the dealership that I purchased my R59 at also sells the Rolls-Royce line. "
Some original MINI dealership from 2002 are still like this and the service bay is MINI , MINI, couple BMW and a Drophead Coupe all in the same bay. Funny last time I was at a service like this my MINI Convertible ( warranty work ) was by a Bespoke Dropehead Coupe. :) |
Originally Posted by ECSTuning
(Post 4142613)
" As for selling MINI alongside BMW, the dealership that I purchased my R59 at also sells the Rolls-Royce line. "
Some original MINI dealership from 2002 are still like this and the service bay is MINI , MINI, couple BMW and a Drophead Coupe all in the same bay. Funny last time I was at a service like this my MINI Convertible ( warranty work ) was by a Bespoke Dropehead Coupe. :) |
Yea, I should have. But I was on my way out. Also the owner was there, and he might have not liked that. I am around rare cars all day. :)
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In Maine, rare cars are few to just about none. That owner would have been pleased that someone was taking a picture of the cars... a compliment, too, next to a Mini no less! :thumbsup:
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You think he would have by RR owners are a different crew. I should have waited till he left, but I was going out the service door.
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The Z4 is a pretty nice ride. We just got Z4M roadsters in ourselves.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...8cc48f206b.jpg |
Nice picture. No details! One of the few Bimmers I actually like.
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Thanks! It's going to be a fun project for our tech library. Here are some more for your viewing pleasure:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...3f9adcdf60.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...55e511ac75.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...47e071cb06.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...b04925537c.jpg |
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Vendors seem to have mucho dinero for buying M cars!
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The M cars shown cost less than a R59. Check the used market.
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Wow! No fun what so ever! :wink:
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Yep, my JCW Coupe was more then our M Coupe right now.
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Originally Posted by ECSTuning
(Post 4144371)
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Thanks ;) we know. And it super clean.
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Originally Posted by ECSTuning
(Post 4144371)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...eebca0a5f6.jpg Two of the 41 Evergreen Clownshoes ever manufactured are vendors on this forum. |
Good taste :)
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If you can buy it, just do it! Someone has to own these cars. Extremely nice.
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I've had my fathers 03 Z4 Roadster 3.0 w/36k on it now for a few years. He was unable to drive it anymore so I somewhat inherited it. If I end up owning it, I would most likely sell it. It's not my really my thing, I prefer my R53. But that's just me. Not too mention I can't afford to maintain both.
It is a fun car to drive though the ride on the run flats in sport mode is brutal. It gets up and scoots pretty good too. It looks exactly like this one. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psbytop3i1.jpg |
Originally Posted by R53Minicoop
(Post 4188082)
I've had my fathers 03 Z4 Roadster 3.0 w/36k on it now for a few years. He was unable to drive it anymore so I somewhat inherited it. If I end up owning it, I would most likely sell it. It's not my really my thing, I prefer my R53. But that's just me. Not too mention I can't afford to maintain both.
It is a fun car to drive though the ride on the run flats in sport mode is brutal. It gets up and scoots pretty good too. It looks exactly like this one. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psbytop3i1.jpg |
Originally Posted by MiniRoadstah
(Post 4188145)
You have some really nice roads to drive from Cooperstown through the Finger Lakes area and more, depending which direction you head and that Z4 is a nice car to drive on them. Is it expensive to maintain?
Several years ago my father had an issue with the rag top that cost him about 10 grand to fix.:eek: I think that was Prestige BMW in Jersey. Water damage from a leaking issue from the top into the trunk area caused some electrical issues somehow to boot. He had to replace the roof as part of that if I remember correctly. At the moment it sits in my driveway for the last year now under a cover with a blown out runflat and a bad 02 sensor. Haven't messed with the car much yet this year as it may have to go back to his now widowed 3rd wife. He passed after Christmas last year. Aside from the roof issue which I don' believe is common, I don't think it was that troublesome otherwise. Up until this last year I drove it (daily driver) for 2 Summers prior without any issue. It was fun. It is a drivers car for sure. |
Remember driving a owners Z3 M convertible in white back in my E30 / E34 ownership days. It was fun, and it only had like 19K miles and was stored all the time, never driven.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...a3b9f7c2e0.jpg |
I looked at a Z3 a few years ago... and actually took a Z4 out for a brief drive. The blue '08(? may have been a '07) Z4 didn't have 15k miles on it and felt very well behaved on the road. The owner must have been meticulous, the car was perfect, engine compartment looked showroom. Always a cool car to look at as well, with the body creases in all angles and curves.
The second gen Z4 grew too much in size to interest me and at the time I looked at these cars, Mini was showing final concepts of it's Roadster, so I decided to wait to see what the Mini would look like. Miata is a superb driver, and I almost got one, several times from the first gen on, but it just lacked character. So I'm very glad I waited. I'm way happier with the smaller Mini Roadster. Really tough to beat this car and to me it's was an instant classic, reminiscent of the old MGBs and that type of car in the looks department. A lot of driving fun at every turn. Just feels more immediate and connected than just about anything else I've driven that's a convertible, plus it's really fuel efficient, so I'm not horribly guilt ridden when I head out in it. It's not perfect, but for me it's darned close. |
E89
So I bought an E89 Z4 and traded in the R59. My thoughts for those who may be find this thread and want to know more about the two cars further.....
R59: autocross champion. Fun car to drive at any speed! Some torque steer on uneven surfaces but easily the best FWD sports car I have ever driven. E89: faster, luxury interior reminiscent of a 7 series, but heavier and not as sharp. The E89 still gives you a seat of the pants sports car driving experience but not as sharp as the R59. IMO, best looking car under $100k. I quess after reading all the E89 reviews I was expecting a SUV/minivan type driving experience with the steering. The steering and handling is precise and very BMW like. No, it is not a Boxster/R59/etc, but still very fun to drive sitting back over the rear axle. So, probably common sense to most, but my advice is to read the enthusiasts reviews but nothing beats test driving a car for yourself. |
Had a 2001 Z3 10 years ago. Really liked that car and would buy a new one if BMW still made one. Never was excited about the looks of the z4. New Miata or Fiat 124 Spider are nice but I cannot fit in them. Not sure what I would buy if my R59 was gone. When you are a bigger guy your choices are limited. Nissan 370Z?
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