Won't start, then complete electronics failure
 

I'm looking to document an issue I'm experiencing. If anyone has input, I'm happy to hear it. The fact is, these forums have been so much help to me, I'm hoping this will help someone else. I'll continue updating until there is a resolution.

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- 2007 MCS
- Manual Transmission
- 60,000 miles
- 2nd owner

I had a leaky water pump replaced at a local shop (not a dealership). The next day, I couldn't start the car. The starter didn't even try. The lights didn't dim and the battery had been replaced about 6 months ago and was later tested and deemed in excellent condition. I could hear the car responding to the press of the start button, but never the starter. After trying to start the car multiple times, I had it towed back to the shop.

They hit the lock/unlock buttons on the key fob a couple of times, then they were able to start it up. "Probably the security system," but I don't have one. I've owned the car for 18 months with nothing like this occurring at all. I always use the convenience button on the door handle instead of the fob. Whatever, they were confident it wasn't anything other than a bad "read" from the lock/unlock process. So I drive it home.

That night I try to go to the store. It won't start. I press the lock/unlock buttons on the fob... it won't start. I open and close the doors a couple of times... it fires up like nothing was wrong.

I drive it around a couple of quiet streets to see if I can detect *anything* about the car. I hear buzzes and the sound of relays opening and closing... noisy, unusual stuff. Then I smell burnt wiring, and just as quickly it goes away, but the noises continue.

I get back home and decide to drive it back to the shop the next morning. But it won't start again. Multiple tries fail and I decide to jump start it. It fires up like a champ. The noises are gone and it's running fine. So I start driving the 24 miles to the shop.

Five miles from the shop, I smell burnt wires again. Immediately, the radio starts turning off an on. Then the air bag warning light. Then the ABS warning light. Then the "Service" light. Everything else lights up, flickers and finally goes out. Three miles from the shop. On the freeway. At morning rush hour. I still seem to have power steering and brakes, but the engine is off. I coast to the shoulder, call for a tow and arrive at the shop.

That's where I am right now in the story. An elective water pump replacement, followed by an inability to start the car, the smell of burning electronics, and ending in complete shut down of the electronics.

Again, insight and condolences are welcome. Mostly hoping I learn something that can be shared to help someone else later on.

That all sounds like something shorted out that was not protected by a fuse. It drained the battery and fried some wiring or some other electrical bits. It probably was the cause of the earlier no-start, somehow, and then got worse with continued use and more heat from the shorting.

That's a guess, but it would appear to fit the symptoms.

Now, what is it that shorted out? That's going to take some work to figure out...

Battery terminal touching the chassis? Look inside the cover at the battery, what does it look like and are there any added aftermarket wires for stuff like driving lights that have been removed by the PO?

Slave to Felines: The battery was tested the first time it was towed… it was strong.
RockAZ: It's stock all the way (not for lack of want).

Thanks for playing.

UPDATE-- Mechanics: 2, Luck: 0
 

The mechanics spent two days looking into my problem. At the end of the second day, they wanted to charge me more to keep troubleshooting. I asked them what they knew at the moment...

Them: "Well, we got a code, but we can't figure out what it means."
Me: "What do you mean you 'can't figure it out?'... don't you have documentation for trouble codes?"
T: "Well, we can't get on the web site."
M: (WTF?) "What does a web site have to do with repairing my car?"
T: "Well, we don't have stuff for european cars."
M: "But I asked you if you work on MINIs, you said yes."
T: "We'll figure it out next week when we can get on the web site."
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I should have taken my car right then and there, but I was convinced that they damaged my car and that they were responsible for making it right. I didn't want to pay $140 for a tow, then another $150 for an additional diagnostic at the dealership (who botch a repair and outright lied about a "critical" walnut shell blasting for $1,000).
---
M: "You need to fix this. I have another ride. Just fix it."

Then comes Monday at closing time:

"We can't figure our what the problem is. We recommend that you take it to the dealer. Of course, we won't be charging you." All credibility is gone. They didn't have the right tools. They couldn't figure out the problem. How can I possibly not eliminate them as the cause?

So I call they guy that saved me from the dealership's hard sell on the walnut shell blasting (Why didn't I go to him originally? He's far away and takes a long time because he's busy). I get a tow and it's been there for the last three days.

Known:

- Alternator = OK
- Starter = OK
- Battery = OK

Hopefully I'll have another update soon. I'm eagerly waiting to see if my MINI is just prone to failure (thermostat, timing chain, HPFP, 2 water pumps), or if the failure was mine this time in selecting an incompetent mechanic.

On Saturday me and my wife drove 6 hours away and bought a 07 S with 66000 miles, 6speed. Sunday morning when I went to leave the car would not turn over or anything. Called the dealer(Not a MINI dealer) that I bought it from, they sent a mechanic to me replaced the battery and still nothing. Stayed an extra night and had the starter replaced. Started my journey home and about 2 hours away from home I had the same issue that you described. Towed it 125 miles to my house and now have it at a local MINI dealer now, just curious what the outcome and damage($$) was. I really like the car and Im trying to decide if I should give it back to the dealer or keep it. The dealership by the way has been nothing but awesome about comping me for repairs and an extra night in town.

Thanks

Wkern: Sorry to hear about your MINI. I haven't updated because there still hasn't been a definitive solution.

Known: Damaged wiring harness from starter to alternator was replaced and now there is current between the two. This wiring harness passes over the water pump that was just replaced.

The MINI will not accept a reprogramming. The mechanic was supposed to get the latest program from the manufacturer yesterday, but no word. If the new program is unsuccessful, it means that the computer (ECU or DME?) is fried and needs to be replaced. The computer alone is $2K plus the time to program it, plus the new wiring harness, plus the time to troubleshoot. My estimate (not his) would put this at around $3500. That's on top of the $700 water pump (second one in 60K miles) that started this whole mess.

Unknown: Is the computer fried? What caused the damage to the wiring harness? Did the first mechanic cause all of this? Why does a modern car in excellent condition with 60K miles need:

- 2 water pumps
- 1 HPFP
- 1 timing chain
- 1 thermostat
- 1 wiring harness
- potentially 1 new computer?

My only thought is that this was one of the first mid-year 2007s after the switch from supercharger to turbo. It's a blast to drive, but I may be looking at spending 50% more on repairs than I did on the car itself… in 18 months.

CmdZ: Thanks for the update and sorry to hear about your luck. This is my first MINI Ive been waiting a while to get one. Your right, Its a blast to drive and I have only driven it 200 miles. I hope this isnt going to be a "problem child" for me. I will wait to hear what the MINI dealership says, but I may have to return the car and keep looking.

UPDATE: The computer is fried. According to my mechanic, there appears to be damage to the starter/alternator wiring harness. According to MINI (mfg, not dealer), this was not the cause of the computer failure. It was, however, the final straw for a computer that was at near-failure. MINI claims that they have seen this before. The computer is on the verge of failure, and the mere act of disconnecting the battery is a sufficient catalyst for complete failure.

Both MINI and my mechanic are trying to help me out. MINI will perform the reprogramming for no charge with free overnight shipping. My mechanic is selling me the computer for his cost (~$1400). Add on top of that the new wiring harness and labor to track down the problem, another $700. Add tax, sub-total is $2,300. Now include the cost of the water pump and labor that started all of this... $3,000.

Still not certain if the new computer will fix everything. At 60,000 miles, I'm more than a little concerned that I'll never make 100K miles. I was worried about these kinds of problems back in August of last year (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...i-keep-it.html)... Hindsight is 20/20.

Should have the new computer installed on Monday. I'll update after I hear back from my mechanic.

wow...I am sorry to hear this and I hope this is not the problem I am having. Here are some details of my problem.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d-failure.html

These are the codes I got:
P15FE
P1551
P110F
P1409
P1433
P0503

Same issues happened with my 11 Countryman ALL4 S
 

I own a 2011 Countryman ALL4 S. Current mileage 110,500+. On Thursday, May 4, 2018 I had an appointment at dealership for them to replace the FRM on my car. I already knew what the problem was from my local mechanic and some research on here. Fortunately, BMW extended the warranty on this and I didn't have to pay out of pocket for this repair. While waiting for them to replace the FRM, our service advisor mentioned the water pump recall and asked if we wanted that done. Since we were there and it's a 6 hr drive round trip for us, I didn't want to waste a whole other day up in Latham, NY just for that, so we said yes.

FRM replaced, water pump replaced, and we start heading home. My husband had followed my daughter and I there as I had no working blinkers due to the FRM failure. Anyway, my daughter and I driving home, my husband following us, and 30 miles from the dealership my radio craps out, followed by multiple warnings lamps lighting up: air bag, passenger seat belt, ABS, traction control, brakes, battery light, steering wheel in which I lost all power steering. As this is happening I call my husband. I'm telling him what's going on and I smell burnt plastic, pulled off at the next exit, and coasted into gas station parking lot. I was concerned about a fire from the smell of burnt plastic so shut the car off. All of this happened in probably a 2 minute span of time. I took pics with my phone of the warning lights while coasting and as soon as we were stopped I had my daughter write down everything that happened. The car refused to start after that. I called the dealership, explained the situation where 30 miles from leaving there my car essentially died. The woman I spoke to said the call roadside assistance and have towed back. I said the warranty is up so we aren't covered by roadside assistance. Are we going to have to pay for a tow because as I see it we never had these issues until we left your shop. She said I dont have an answer for you and the manager left. I said I don't care, call your manager. She said he already left, I dont have authorization, blah blah blah. I told her that is no excuse. That right there is poor customer service and we would just deal with it ourselves. I hung up and called our insurance to see if they covered. We didnt have coverage, but while on the phone with insurance I got a call back from MINI dealer and the gal I spoke to talked to the manager (real hard to pick up the damn phone to make a call for a customer whi just left the dealership right?) and she said they would cover the towing and made arrangements to have tow service come. Tow truck finslly came 2 hours later and loaded up my car to take back to the dealership.

Friday morning(yesterday) I called to be sure that my car was actually there. Yes it had made it. It was already in the shop being looked at and they would call once they had more info. 4 hours later I get a call from our service advisor and they don't yet know what the problem is. What? 4 hours and nothing? He says they probably won't know til Monday and it stuff needed to be ordered it wouldnt be til Monday. I told him we wanted to to know what was actually wrong before parts are being ordered and what it's going to cost and who is going to pay for it. He agreed. So here I am now.

How long did it take them to diagnose that it was the conouter on your car? How is your car running now? Have they tried to take advantage of you at the dealership(ex. wanting to do unneccesary work)? I am a woman, I took one year of auto mechanics back in high school (20 yrs ago) so I am knowledgable to a point (limited by 20 years of auto advancement and computers) and I do my research when I have issues. Twice I have been to the dealership and they have tried to over charge me. Both times I called them out on it and they dropped the final cost.

Anyone else out there had the same computer issues? If so, were you able to get some compensation from your dealer? In my mind, these issues were non-existent until MINIs service department touched my car and interestingly this all happened just after the water pump was replaced. Any insight/suggestions would be appreciated!