Learning stick
 

Hi I am starting to learn how to drive stick in a 2002 mini cooper s. I wanted to know how far can I stop in a gear before it stalls without pushing the clutch.

It depends on the gear, but usually it is easier to look at RPMs. You are safe to 1700 or so no matter, but need it out of gear by the time the engine starts to idle again (instead of coast). Just use feel. It will buck a bit if you are going too far. Look at the RPMs and don't go that low again.

I'm learning in an MCS as well! For me, I generally wait til about 1500, then push in the clutch. Basically, just turn your music down and go by sound. If you have to, look at the tach and try to match the sounds to the rpms. Even if you keep resorting to looking at the tach, just do a quick glance here and there; the longer your eyes are off the road, the more of a threat you and every other car around you becomes.

Good luck :thumbsup:! Stick is easy, learned it within an hour, granted I'm still learning to drive it properly... By the way, it is true what they say: mastering it takes a lifetime...

+1 for the feel/sound of the engine


As you become "one" with your MINI you will know when you need to put the clutch in, it will eventually become second nature.

You can get pretty low in the RPMs with MINIs, so I agree with the previous numbers of 1,500-1,700.

Like others have stated, you'll learn to hear/feel it.

If your real question is how much can I compression brake the vehicle, using the clutch to rapidly slow the vehicle down instead of the brakes, that's a little different. Realize that if you do this you are betting a $3K clutch job against a $500.00 brake job.

Take care of the clutch. Keep it in the sweet spot going up and down and it will have a longer life.

I can coast to a red light in 2nd gear to just above 1000rpm, around 1,200 or so. Learning manual is frustrating at times but very rewarding. You'll pick it up quick, and it gets easier every time.

good fedback.. learn the range of your gears and dont coast through corners in neutral - try to be in the right gear and then accelerate 1/2 way through.. i see too many people coasting around in neutral all the time.. if you stay in gear whenever you are rolling and learn how to heel+toe you will drive much smoother, safer and do less wear & tear to the car (aka long clutch life)

it's an art.. dance with the car!

phil.

lerning to drive stick in a Mini .....Brilliant !!!! I had to learn on a old 3 speed column shift truck...now that was a bit to remember ......But any way good luck and watch it when you stop on an incline, can get a bit sketchy at times if some knucklehead is a foot from your boot......:eek2:

oops!:lol:

Often overlooked in North America is the hand brake! If on a hill, use the hand brake to stop roll back. When ready to advance, have the car in gear and as you let out the clutch, release the brake. Its a quickly learned skill that will save you sweaty palms, dents in your rear bumper and avoid the embarrassing stall!!!!:eek2:

My Mazda B4000 has the the emergency brake foot activated, never did like that fact. I guess that's why so many people have rusted and unusable cables. They're of little use. :no:

Good luck in your shifting future, once mastered you can drive just about anything! :thumbsup:

i have a question along the lines of this topic...say, when you want to coast in Neutral to a stop...Do you just pop the shifter into Neutral without pressing the clutch? or u have to use the clutch to put it in N. i know it will go in either way, but i only assume that just pulling it out w/o using clutch is less wear on the clutch...

I have been driving a stick now for over 40 years. All sorts of cars, big and small, with all sorts of power. And I have never looked at the tach when slowing down. You should be looking at the road. Way out front.

Slow down in gear and disengage the clutch at the very last minute. In the beginning you will make some mistakes. If your Mini shutters, you waited too long. After a while it will be second nature. And stalling your Mini won't hurt anything other than your pride which is cheap and easy to repair.

Rich

use the clutch...

Kind regards,

Charlie

Use either way.

I did not know that you could shift into neutral without the clutch, but I do not think it is good to get into that habit.

Your first reaction when you intend to shift should be to press the clutch. If you start yanking the car out of gear instead, I imagine you are opening yourself up to grinding the gears accidentally. I would also think that it could cause problems in certain situations, like semi-emergency braking.

You use the transmission to help you slow down, so you should not automatically go into neutral (unless you are just talking about 2nd to neutral). I know some people say it is cheaper to buy brake pads than a transmission, but the transmission is built for this purpose.

The concept just seems backwards to me. I say always use the clutch.

The only time I use my clutch in normal driving is at take off. You can smoothly upshift or downshift with no clutch at all, course there may be an issue with blocker rings later but its no worse on the transmission than normal use. Try it! Its awesome!!

God bless you, and good luck to you.

Kind regards,

Charlie

You need to rev match to do that and I don't really see the point. I would much rather double clutch or heal-toe (while also utilizing the clutch) when rev matching.

I also wouldn't just tell him to 'try it' since he should research the technique. You can't just slam it in or you definitely will cause damage.

I always clutch and have never had any clutch or transmission related problems. I honestly cannot say whether not-clutching all of the time will actually screw up your car, but I stay on the safe side.

Really all of this is to avoid lifting your left foot, and I don't think anyone should be that lazy. I guess it could be useful to gain tenths of a second, and for left foot braking, but that is not something you should worry about for normal driving.

Why would you DOUBLE clutch? I never understood what people thought they accomplished with that.

There are three components involved in a gear change.
1. the crank, and flywheel - controlled with the throttle
2. the output shaft, and the gears assemblies splined to that shaft, and the axles and wheels via the differential, and
3. the input shaft, pressure plate, and the gear assemblies splined thereon - this is the component that double clutching affects.

If one changes from 3rd to 2nd, quickly, then the rpm of the output shaft does not vary as it is geared via the diff to the wheels.

However to engage 2nd, the input shaft rpm must increase by somewhere between 800-1100 rpm depending on the speed of the car.

The energy required to accelerate the input shaft must come from somewhere, and there are two potential sources.

1. the synchros,
2. the crankshaft

Double clutching is a technique whereby the crankshaft rpm is increased by the required delta using a throttle blip, and the clutch is momentarily engaged while the transmission is in neutral. The result is that the input shaft is accelerated to match the rpm required for the lower gear.

Once the two shafts are spinning at the same speed, depressing the clutch and selecting the 2nd gear occurs without requiring the synchros to provide any energy to the shaft.

Some folks think it's kinder to the tranny.

i do it, and I have a flawless transmission with 157,000 miles on it - but that does not in itself prove anything.

In a modern tranny, the whole point of the synchros is to remove the requirement for double clutching from the driver's list of responsibilities - so most folks do not bother.

Those of us that learned on un-synchronized transmissions may have retained the habit out of mental inertia.

Trucks are a different story - the few tractor trailers I have driven were shifted without use of the clutch, by rev matching alone (with the exception of a dead stop, or starting from rest). Those transmissions are designed for this application however, and the internal components are shaped to avoid premature wear from the occasional grind - not so our relatively delicate Getrags...

Cheers,

Charlie

I understand the concept but that is exactly why they put blockers "synchros" in transmissions. I guess if you're used to it its not a bad habit to have lol I still like no clutch tho :-D

double clutching is not necessary with synchro's but on the other hand heel and toe isn't either.

proper execution of both/either leads to less wear on the transmission parts

or in simple terms: learn how to downshift. Something that is becoming a lost art.

how far can I stop in a gear before it stalls without pushing the clutch.

I'm sorry, I don't even know what this is asking . . .

Memories of me learning how to drive stick on a 2001 Celica GT-S 6 speed in San Francisco. I remember stalling down a full hill at midnight by myself...could not catch that crappy low torque beast =(

I've been learning stick over the last week since I just got my mini Tuesday. Just today I learned about gearing way down for steep hills. That was an interesting experience, none the less.

I learned to drive a stick when I was about 13 and have taught several people how to drive a stick since then including my wife (and yes, we are still married!)

I much prefer it to the auto, except on evenings like tonight when in traffic in DFW when I have to press the clutch in about 10000 times on a 30-minute drive! Aaaaaaargh:mad:

I do like the hill assist feature. First car I've had with that.....:thumbsup: