Used E46 (2002-03) sedan or Mazda3 Wagon (New with leather)
both ~$20K+ ..that has been the question for me.

Im planning to jump the gun and return my 04 pos Civic sedan before
my full 36month term is over (at 24months). It just bugs the hell out of
me that I have to drive such a pos to work when i can't carpool with
the wife's 06 Legacy.:impatient

honestly, i originally liked the car for the super low lease and it's a
very dependable car. But latetly i changed departments at work and
my current position requires me to travel quite often. it's been getting
on my nerves for the civic not having any features... like, no map
lights, even...and i want a car that i can 'come home' to as i have
so little time during the week to enjoy my MCS or my other car.

Im planning to use the replacing car as my primary vehicle to do
daily tasks. I want a car with a nice interior and sort-of sporty,
must be AT.

so... which is it? a used E46 sedan, or Maz3 wagon..? maybe
wait for the new Golf's? i don't want to spend any more than $20k+

(im keeping my other cars).

 

Depending on the mileage and records, I'd go with the BMW. Very rarely has anyone ever been sorry they bought a beemer.

Steve

 

A couple of years ago I actually found a lightly used 3 series wagon (2wd) with sport package and manual transmission. It has been a blast to drive and a joy to own for almost three years. I can't recommend enough looking at an E46 wagon if you can find the right one. The downside obviously is that they are incredibly rare - especially with the manual/sport pack options. However if you're looking for an auto things should be a bit easier. Naturally the sedan is also a great choice.

 

Good luck and check out the E46 boards for info on issues - remember they are BMWs and they do have their share of typical problems and weaknesses (ie many subframes have shown problems, window regulators, well lots of things). You can end up with a problem free car or not like any automobile, but it does seem that bimmers are prone to certain issues and are expensive to maintain and get parts/service for.

If it were me and I needed a really reliable car that I don't want to have to take in for service much I'd look elsewhere then a used BMW - of course its all balanced on how enjoyable the cars in question are and what options are available, but given that its all equal I'd go for the new car.

(On the other hand if you're lucky you'll end up with a used car who's owner has already suffered through the many issues and multiple thrilling visits to the dealer like I did, however it doesn't guarantee that others things won't crop up. By th way, do check out TSBs for the car beforehand and see if they were covered since the dealers do not cover them post warranty)

 

Thanks, Gabe. I haven't seen too many E46 wagons myself, but that
would have the utility i would want. but yeh, it has to be an AT.

 

I like the new Civic Coupe...40MPG!!!

 

Yeh, im hearing more and more about this subframe issue. In a nutshell,
wat is it? Is the subframe coming apart from the cross members or
something? or corrosion?


Reliability is something i will definitely need...so this is one item i really
need to do research on if i was to get a E46. it's just like our MINI's..
people that have problems get it all the time, and the lucky ones rarely
ever do.

still got until summer to decide, but i wanted to begin my research.
i might also look at used A4's as well.

 

Just wanted to point out that Civics and Corollas have been getting 40+ mpg for the past 20+ years; it's just that no one bothered to notice until recently.

 

For some reason many BMWs have had a weak rear subframe and even after model redos it persists (from the E30 thru the E46 for example). I didn't experience it myself in the E46 but it could be that I didn't own the car long enough or simply luck of the draw like any issue. That said I can't tell you every way it makes itself known (I haven't been hanging on the E46 boards in awhile) but there are probably cracks, popped rivets/welds, issues with the RSMs and more. A fix for subframe issues can be costly as I understand as it requires fabrication and additional reenforcement. Other things to look out for include wheel bearings, control arms, the guibo I think (sp?) - well anyway, I'm sure that I can't cover it all - check out roadfly, e46fanatics, bimmerfest & bimmerforums and alldata for some TSBs.

I love the E46, drives well in all incarnations and think its better looking then the E90, but I'm just wary of inherent BMW service/issue-wise and potential used car stuff that makes even new BMWs less then reliable and problem free (ie BMW manuals also had software issues like the Minis, the steptronics were okay though as far as I recall to the date I was involved, but check for any specific year you are interested in).

 

Wifey drives an 04 E46 sedan and loves it. 30k miles and just regular maitenance and extra mid-service oil changes.

I'll throw another in the mix . . . new or used Honda CRV. We bought one in 99, gave it to the kid last year and it's been a great vehicle. Regular maint and a timing belt at 100K. Interior still looks great, too. With regular fluid changes, Hondas run forever.

 

All goood points. I personally wouldn't worry about sub-frames unless the car has been tracked hard. I may be wrong but I've never heard of issues with non-tracked cars. Otherwise you will have front ball-joint issues at anywhere from 30k to 90k depending on how and where you drive. Same with the front suspension. Window regulators were a common issue on early E46s - watch for that as well. At 70k mine has been devoid or most of those issues but it's worth knowing about them. I've had two E46s and both have been great. Generally better built than the E36 that proceeded them as well.

All things considered I don't think they're any more trouble than most cars (sans a Civic or something like that) but they give you so much more daily joy. If you love to drive, you'll probably like the trade-offs. If you don't, I'd look elsewhere.

 

I respect your take on it Gabe, but as I recall some people were seeing issues without tracking or autocrossing. I can tell you that some Z cars (including Z8s as I've heard, check the boards to be certain) are showing rear subframe issues without track time as I am currently more involved in those forums. Its the BMW line, by the way, to say that the cars must have been driven hard (which is funny considering BMW commercials with the the 'ultimate driving machine whipping around) or blame it on mods if they can, but real people have gone through stuff without being beasts to the car - ie one guy with a 1.9 Z3 that I remember having major subframe issues. Maybe bad roads? Who knows, but the weakness in design/manufacture in that area seems consistant - perhaps an independant bimmer mechanic can help with info. Again, another thing to keep in mind about a post warranty car is that parts and repairs on BMWs can be more costly then other makes.

 

I'm just going on the info I've read in the Roundel and online. And I totally agree BMW gets their act in gear and make sure this doesn't happen to future models. These cars need to be track ready from the show-room floor and the fact that some people are nervous about such an important component isn't a great thing for the brand that bills itself as the ultimate driving machine.

 

I had a 2003 330I ZHP for about 7 months, then a 2003 M3 coupe for almost 3 years. I frequented bimmerfest and bimmer.org heavily during those days and I don't recall seeing anything about subframe issues on E46's. Lots of talk about it on Z3 and Z and M Coupes. Most common problems mentioned were window regulators and some software issues on certain models. SMG transmissions on M's had their share of weird issues, and there was some mention of stalling associated with Steptronics. I had pretty good luck with both of my cars. The ZHP never saw the dealer except for its first oil service, the M3 had the oil services, and Inspections I and II. It had two unscheduled visits, one to repair the sunroof shade (fairly common) and another complaint about premature paint wear on the front facia. The regional service manager authorized a respray of the bumper/dam for that, looked like new again after that and I promptly covered it with ClearBra afterwards. You should be able to get a pretty good example of a 325 or 330 in your price range, spend a bit more and you might find a ZHP which I think was the pinnacle of the E46 sedan range. If you find one that hasn't used up its maintenance plan yet, you could buy the extension fairly reasonably.

 

Welp, I was mostly on E46fanatics and some elsewhere and around and read about it (popping back over the last year or more I have seen the subframe coming up). Way back when in 2002 or so I even had a tech mention it to me when on a test drive with him and he mentioned to stay away from coilovers for that reason (it was the senior guy at Sonnen at the time fyi). Also, ZHP manuals that I recall had software stalling issues and bad mileage - some lemoned them, likely it was solved later on. As I said, a current search and participation will garner the information and help that is needed - some people are lucky and fairly problem free and others have their cars in the shop all the time - having one circumstance happen to you personally does not invalidate the other - you can only determine for yourself what you see the risks are and if you want to take them.

Fwiw combined we've had a 328ci and an E46 M3 and had more problems then you did for sure, as have others- the 328ci for over 5 years (which will of course show more issues then a 7 month stint) and the M3 for over a year (edit).

 

guys, thanks for your inputs. I think i better get either a new one or just get something else. with my schedule i don't have time to babysit these issues for a daily driver.

 

Well having owned five 3 series I can honestly say I've never felt like I'm baby-sitting them. The thing you have to remember about these cars is that people care about them a great deal. So you hear endlessly about their little faults. But that doesn't mean they aren't a reliable long term transportion. My old '86 325es, is now driven daily by my sister has has 200,000 miles on it. In the past 10 years she's probably spent no more than $1500 on various repairs.

Anyway best of luck...

 

Kenchan,

I think you're making the right choice as far as your daily driver is concerned. This is your "appliance" car. It must be one thing above all else, reliable. A nine year old car just plain isn't. Bells and whistles be damned, go for Maytag reliability over Miele design.