Hi all, new here. I posted this on Mini2, but I was also curious about experiences on NAM. I'm looking to order an 06 MCS later this year or early next year. One of the options I really want is the Xenon headlights. But, I have a question about them.

One other car I have been looking at is the Mazda 3 (Axela abroad). It is also available with Xenon lights. I test drove one recently and found that the beam pattern of the lights did not appear stable; over rough roads the cutoff of the illumination appeared to bounce up and down even though the suspension of the car didn't seem to be that upset by the disturbance.

I asked about the issue on the Mazda3 forums and others have said they noticed this issue. I'm not sure what would cause it, but I would like to know that this isn't inherent in other vehicles with HID/Xenon headlights, because I've never owned any vehicle that had them. I figure, if I'm going to pay a few hundred dollars extra for premium lights, I think the least they could do is provide stable illumination.

Unfortunately because the sun stays out longer during the summer, I haven't been able to test drive a Xenon-equipped MCS at night to see if the beam pattern is stable like I hope it is, or unstable like the Mazda. If anyone can let me know what your experience with the MCS factory Xenon beam pattern is, I'd be grateful. Thanks!

 

Remember that all Xenon headlamps are equipped with auto-leveling. That's probably what you are seeing. Yes, it does look a bit different from the driver's seat.

 

Ditto on that

 

I've got an '05 with xenon headlights. They bounce, seemingly independent of the suspension. I' guessing it's the self-leveling, but I didn't think they worked real-time. I thought they just do a start-up test and stay. It is somewhat difficult to notice.

 

I don't know if auto-leveling is contributing to the "bounce". Auto-leveling is more of a factor for different loading of the car. As the car has to carry more of a load (passengers, luggage, goodies, etc.), the Xenons adjust where the beam is projected. The objective is to avoid having the beam from the Xenons in a fully-loaded car blind on-comming traffic.

The bounce occurs as I travel over bumps on all of the Xenon-equipped cars that I own: 2 Volvos and now, the MCSa. I have been told that the bounce is not indicative of a mechanical failure of any sort; it is just the way the Xenon unit (it is really not a bulb in the traditional sense) responds to vibrations.

 

GET THEM, i have them on my 05 MCS and the Xenon lights are nothing short of fantastic. I drove a rented Cooper without them and there is a noticeable difference, especially on dark stretches of road. They've already saved me from hitting a re-tread that was laying in the middle of the road on one of the new rubberized asphalt surfaces.

 

I would agree with yzdj - the Xenon headlights are very helpful in night driving. The pattern of light as well as the contrast that is provided by the Xenon light helps to illuminate objects on the road that could otherwise be missed with the traditional quartz headlights.

 

One big thing to remember, becuase of the super bright nature of xenon's (ever try looking DIRECTLY into them. I did once, ouch!) most properly engineered reflectors have a built in obstruction that cuts off the beam at a certain hieght. This is to protect other drivers from the lights. Notice that halogen reflectors, even high grade projector lenses DO NOT have this sort of a mechanical beam cutoff. When looking at the beam pattern from in the car this results in xenons having a hard straight cutoff at the top of the beam while halogens have a smoother transition as the light fades at the extreme ends of the beam. The result of this is every little bump, whether you notice it or not gets translated into a movement of that hard line that is much easier to notice than a smooth fade bouncing around. This is probably a lot of what you are seeing. However, the auto-level function IS active while you drive. The initial drop-rise at startup is a self-check and also allows the lights to level themselves for whatever load is in the car but the lights will continue to level themselves based on bumps and hills in the road. If you doubt this try (on an empty road) accellerating hard through first and second. Don't try and be smooth on the shifts, accel hard, clutch in and let the nose of the car drop, then 2nd, drop the clutch and gun it. The rapid dive, climb of the nose will be complimented by a climb, dive of the lights as you do this. Its a little hard to do in a MINI cause the suspension doesnt allow for a whole lot of body motion from acceleration but you should be able to see it. Its actually kinda cool.

 

The halogen lights in the pre-'05 MINIs have a hard horizontal cut-off that cuts up on the right to illuminate street signs, just like the xenons. I don't have xenons, but the road illumination is much brighter than with American vehicles equipped with halogens.

 

Exactly! I say they are totally worth it.

 

What he said!!

When I drive my G35 with Xenons, I see the green highway signs glowing from almost a mile away. The bumps in the road will drop the lights off of the sign and then back up to it. It is kind of cool looking realizing that it is your lights that are lighting up the sign that is SOOOOO far away.

 

My experience tells me this is common with all HID cars with a good cutoff.

The car has to move VERY little to change a cutoff line way down the road. You notice it if you watch the line, but when you're actually driving you're paying attention to other things and don't see it.

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

All Xenon headlights are not auto-leveling. The Mazda does not have auto-leveling headlights. The leveling is controlled by the driver from inside the vehicle. I'm pretty sure the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo's lights are leveled in a similar manner, as well as some older vehicles with Xenon lights.

I don't think the bouncing has as much to do with the leveling system as the nature of the HID light, as someone mentioned. I was just curious to know if this characteristic was typical in other HID-equipped cars like the Mini.

Like I had noticed in the Mazda, the road disturbance might not have been significant enough to upset the suspension much, but the beam pattern of the headlights would "bounce" up and down. The lights were not trying to level themselves, they were shocked by what seemed like mild bumpiness in the road.

It seems that Xenon lights are more affected in this way than halogen lights. Generally, projector lights, be they halogen or HID, tend to have much more pronounced cutoffs in their illumination. I have driven cars with halogen projector lights that had razor sharp cutoffs and even combined with stiff suspension, I never noticed the fluctuation in the beam pattern like I have when driving a car with HID. There must be something in the nature of the Xenon light source that causes it to fluctuate when shocked.

I suppose as long as this is normal for cars with HID lights, then it won't bother me too much. Thanks again, everyone.

 

I never noticed a "bounce" on my 05 MCS. The car hits bumps, the beam moves as the result. The lights are great. With all due respect, you'll "find" what you're looking for.

 

What is that supposed to mean? I wasn't looking for a problem when I drove the Mazda, it was just something that struck me as weird considering I had never noticed anything similar in a halogen-equipped car. I am merely trying to find out if this characteristic is shared by other cars with HID headlights. I never said I wasn't going to buy the car because of this; just asking a question.

 

I think that things got a little off-track with the various posts. If you check my post #5, I mentioned that the bounce occurred in all the Xenon-equipped cars that I own (3). What causes the bounce is another matter, and that is where things got a bit off-track.

 

Yes, I saw your post. Thanks for the info. I spoke with someone who is more familiar than myself with the engineering of HID lighting and said the phenomenon is likely caused by the thinner cutoff shields used in some systems. Like you said, it isn't really a mechanical issue, so I'm not worried about it.

The Mini (with Xenon lights) is still at the top of my list for a new car. Now I need only decide if I want the Cooper or the S!

Thanks again everyone.

 

What are your decision criteria (for deciding between the Cooper or the S)? For a while I was thinking about the Cooper, but ended up going with the S and don't regret the decision.

 

Well, a lot of things actually. I like that with the Cooper I could get more options (Navigation and the HK audio mainly) and pay less than I would for the S. But I drove both models at a local dealer recently and the power of the S made it a tossup again. I'm still debating whether or not it is worth it to sacrifice some features for the extra power in the S.

The Cooper gets better mileage and would probably be a little easier on insurance, but I'd always wonder what it would have been like to have the supercharger. If I got the S, I'd wish I had the extra features I could have had if I went with the Cooper.

Any advice you may have I'd be grateful for, seeing as how you were in the same predicament that I am.

 

I agree.. its the extreme cutoff of the xenon lights that allow you to see the car bounce. The halogens are diffused and you don't see the border of the beam pattern.. Has nothing to do with the auto levelers.

 

Thanks. Halogen lights with well-designed projector lenses have very pronounced cutoffs as well. And as I said before, I have never seen anything like that in a car with halogen lights.

 

I love mine, but I know what you are talking about. My friend's Mazda Rx8 has a very sharp division. Another's Nissan 350z is less and more similar to my Mini.

Since the division between illuminated and not is small/quick you can notice it and all three of these cars bounce. Most noticeable when driving near a side barrier.

I guess this is required so oncoming traffic is not blinded.

They provide a nice bright light and do great and lighting my way. Plus they look cool and enjoy watching them auto-level each time.

Cheers.

 

All I meant was that if you become focused on a characteristic its effects seem more pronounced; nothing more.

 

If funds are limited, then as you note, you can get more features (such as Navigation and HK stereo) for less money by going the Cooper route. Personally, I was underwhelmed by the MINI's Navigation system. So, if the Navigation system is not as critical for you, you are a little closer to the S if you pass on the Navigation system. I am more performance-oriented, and so, the S got the nod.

 

Sorry if it appeared like I overreacted there. It seemed to me like you were saying I went into driving the car expecting to find something wrong with it, which I wasn't.

I wouldn't say funds are limited, but I am attempting to keep things in check and not go overboard. With everything I want, including the Navigation and HK stereo, I can get a Cooper for just under $22K. That is already a bit more than the $20K I was planning to spend.

If I get the S, I pretty much have to drop the Navigation and HK. With the mods I have deemed must-haves for either model (xenon and the sunroof) plus the chrono pack to move the speedo, it comes in over $23K.

What didn't you like about the nav system? I test drove one MCC with it but the MA said it didn't have the disc, so I wasn't really able to test it out. But I like the idea of having it in case I get lost, as well as having the onboard computer readouts on the screen. I'm one of those people that hates not knowing where I am, so I tend not to go places I don't already know very well; even if I can access directions beforehand. I think with the nav system, I wouldn't be so hesitant to do so.

The lady at the dealership (who also owns an MCS) told me she had a few customers that were disappointed in the nav system, but I've read good things about it online. I wasn't sure if she was just telling me that because she wanted me to spend more money on the S. Your input regarding your experience with the system would be helpful. Thanks!