R50/53 Is a Dealer willing to help provide a list or matrix of what
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3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: Palatine, Illinois
All,
I keep thinking about the nasty shocks some are getting with their mods and their warranty work. I'd like to look at it from a more pro-active point of view and find out ahead of time what combinations are or are not going to give us trouble with the dealer.
Maybe something along the lines of a points system of what would move someone out of a stock class into a modified class for autocrossing.
I.e., tires and wheels are wide open -- 0 points.
exhaust tip -- 0 points
K&N filter insert only -- 0.5 points (I'm presuming)
But, K&N, cat back and intake put you over the limit
19% pully -- 1,000,000 points
upgraded plugs -- 0.5 points
upgraded wires -- 0.5 points
but maybe together they are too much
something long this line
anybody game?
HunterBoss
I keep thinking about the nasty shocks some are getting with their mods and their warranty work. I'd like to look at it from a more pro-active point of view and find out ahead of time what combinations are or are not going to give us trouble with the dealer.
Maybe something along the lines of a points system of what would move someone out of a stock class into a modified class for autocrossing.
I.e., tires and wheels are wide open -- 0 points.
exhaust tip -- 0 points
K&N filter insert only -- 0.5 points (I'm presuming)
But, K&N, cat back and intake put you over the limit
19% pully -- 1,000,000 points
upgraded plugs -- 0.5 points
upgraded wires -- 0.5 points
but maybe together they are too much
something long this line
anybody game?
HunterBoss
GASP! 
No, please stop - you're making SENSE, and we all know the MINI dealerships aren't used to that...
Though honestly, I think the point system might not quite work, but you're on the right track. The dealership (better yet, MINIUSA) should compile an active matrix on what aftermarket mods do and do not void parts of the warranty. Clearly, several dealership (like Motor City MINI) cannot think for themselves, and will blanket all mods regardless of their function as a total warranty void. This blanket approach is a simple recipe for customer disaster, and as Motor City MINI's Customer Service Index (CSI) can attest to (it's the lowest in the country), their approach is wrong. To start, being less condescending to customers with modded MINI's will help. Not everyone wants a JCW, and if the dealership isn't willing to act as an installer for aftermarket parts (even if they don't sell them), they must accept the potential for lost revenue!
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it,
Ryan
No, please stop - you're making SENSE, and we all know the MINI dealerships aren't used to that...
Though honestly, I think the point system might not quite work, but you're on the right track. The dealership (better yet, MINIUSA) should compile an active matrix on what aftermarket mods do and do not void parts of the warranty. Clearly, several dealership (like Motor City MINI) cannot think for themselves, and will blanket all mods regardless of their function as a total warranty void. This blanket approach is a simple recipe for customer disaster, and as Motor City MINI's Customer Service Index (CSI) can attest to (it's the lowest in the country), their approach is wrong. To start, being less condescending to customers with modded MINI's will help. Not everyone wants a JCW, and if the dealership isn't willing to act as an installer for aftermarket parts (even if they don't sell them), they must accept the potential for lost revenue!
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it,
Ryan
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
Some dealers allow many aftermarket upgrades which are installed at the dealership. Are those covered or not? Often JCW kits are installed on MCS and they also get exhaust headers, cold air intakes and even aftermarket rims and tires. Should those things be covered?
From a strict sense, anything which is pulled out and altered by aftermarket upgrades is now not under warranty. Any stock part which is left stock but fails and is not directly altered by an aftermarket upgrade should be covered under warranty.
The problem is some upgrades may affect much more than their intended purpose as there may be interaction with other systems. Any electronic upgrade for example may alter the wiring for the MINI and lead to problems of an electronic nature. That's difficult to sort out and tends to be complex.
MINI can be like Lotus and not allow any upgrades. How boring.
That's why I don't own a Lotus. Well that's not the only reason.
From a strict sense, anything which is pulled out and altered by aftermarket upgrades is now not under warranty. Any stock part which is left stock but fails and is not directly altered by an aftermarket upgrade should be covered under warranty.
The problem is some upgrades may affect much more than their intended purpose as there may be interaction with other systems. Any electronic upgrade for example may alter the wiring for the MINI and lead to problems of an electronic nature. That's difficult to sort out and tends to be complex.
MINI can be like Lotus and not allow any upgrades. How boring.
That's why I don't own a Lotus. Well that's not the only reason.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,604
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I would posit that the only people who get shocked by the dealers are those that never read their owners's manuals and the warranty clauses therein....at least when it comes to mods......it is all in clear concise, black and white plain English. I'd quote the page and paragraph but I am too lazy to go to the car....
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Brookline, MA
My dealer sells intakes and exhausts through their accessory dept. and also installs them. Yet I think that based on the manual, those products could void the warranty...
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
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Your dealer *might* cover related failures. Other dealers will likely not. Also, try to remember, that a modification only voids a warranty on failures that can be related to you situation.
And to use an example from above, wheels and tires are not necessarily free. Say you decide to put on wheels that are very heavy (not likely to find wheels heavier than S'lites', but I digress) and then blow a shock absorber. It could be attributed to excess wheel weight. Or wheels with an incorrect offset, which could place unusual loads on suspension components, and cause them to fail. However, I would not see a way that wheels would void, for example, the powertrain warranty.
This is precisely the reason we have the Magnussen - Moss act. I think everyone should have an understanding of Magnussen - Moss before they modify a car that is under warranty.
Me, I want a Quaife LSD so bad I can taste it, but I know that it will void pretty much everything from the engine through the transmission, and I'm not willing to take that risk.
And to use an example from above, wheels and tires are not necessarily free. Say you decide to put on wheels that are very heavy (not likely to find wheels heavier than S'lites', but I digress) and then blow a shock absorber. It could be attributed to excess wheel weight. Or wheels with an incorrect offset, which could place unusual loads on suspension components, and cause them to fail. However, I would not see a way that wheels would void, for example, the powertrain warranty.
This is precisely the reason we have the Magnussen - Moss act. I think everyone should have an understanding of Magnussen - Moss before they modify a car that is under warranty.
Me, I want a Quaife LSD so bad I can taste it, but I know that it will void pretty much everything from the engine through the transmission, and I'm not willing to take that risk.
Another more literal point of view: your warranty isn't in question until something breaks, and if you have aftermarket parts that alter the operation of the failed part, then it's not covered under warranty.
Most of this warranty issue stuff is quite obvious to interpret, even if it's a derivative implication via the owner’s manual. What seems to be most of the issue is the dealerships lack structure and consistency in giving the customer a fair shake when it comes time to investigate the issue.
When you take delivery, there should be a listing that clearly states what items are and are not covered under warranty (i.e. wear items (brakes, clutch, tires, wiper blades, upholstery) are not). When you did take delivery there was (or still is) a little sticker in the upper left corner of your windshield. It basically says aftermarket parts MAY void the warranty. Use your brain here (you too dealership Service): if you run skateboarded wheels and then get a worn wheel bearing, it wasn't a faulty part, it was the wheels huge offset that caused undue non-axial load. If you install different springs and then your rear calipers seize up, it's not the damn springs, it's a faulty caliper (regardless of brake pad being run)! If you install a set of Koni dampers and then magically have a new rattle in your dash, don't go complaining to your dealership, bring it to a stereo shop and have new/more sound deadening installed! Take responsibility for your aftermarket decisions, but also know when it's the dealership's responsibility to fix your car per the Warranty.
Most of this warranty issue stuff is quite obvious to interpret, even if it's a derivative implication via the owner’s manual. What seems to be most of the issue is the dealerships lack structure and consistency in giving the customer a fair shake when it comes time to investigate the issue.
When you take delivery, there should be a listing that clearly states what items are and are not covered under warranty (i.e. wear items (brakes, clutch, tires, wiper blades, upholstery) are not). When you did take delivery there was (or still is) a little sticker in the upper left corner of your windshield. It basically says aftermarket parts MAY void the warranty. Use your brain here (you too dealership Service): if you run skateboarded wheels and then get a worn wheel bearing, it wasn't a faulty part, it was the wheels huge offset that caused undue non-axial load. If you install different springs and then your rear calipers seize up, it's not the damn springs, it's a faulty caliper (regardless of brake pad being run)! If you install a set of Koni dampers and then magically have a new rattle in your dash, don't go complaining to your dealership, bring it to a stereo shop and have new/more sound deadening installed! Take responsibility for your aftermarket decisions, but also know when it's the dealership's responsibility to fix your car per the Warranty.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,293
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
>>
>>I owned a Lotus Esprit Turbo S4 years ago and there was no need to modify it. It would fall apart on it's own.
>>
Ditto here, although mine was an Elan +2S / 130. Some of the more unusual failures included: 1) the bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft failing; 2) a perforated diaphram in the power brake booster which "magically through the power of vacuum" sucked all the brake fluid out of the brake system and deposited it in my intake manifold. The car looked like a bloody mosquito fogger going down the road, as I pumped furiously at, well nothing. Thank God for a cable operated e-brake. 3) A differential that begged to differ; 4) electric gremlins that could have won an oscar if playing opposite Phoebe Cates; and various other sundries that had a tendency to fall off the vehicle.
But still I loved that Lotus. I'd definately get an Elise if I had $40K burning a hole in my wallet (But I'd get a Noble if I had $75K doing the same thing).
>>I owned a Lotus Esprit Turbo S4 years ago and there was no need to modify it. It would fall apart on it's own.
>>
Ditto here, although mine was an Elan +2S / 130. Some of the more unusual failures included: 1) the bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft failing; 2) a perforated diaphram in the power brake booster which "magically through the power of vacuum" sucked all the brake fluid out of the brake system and deposited it in my intake manifold. The car looked like a bloody mosquito fogger going down the road, as I pumped furiously at, well nothing. Thank God for a cable operated e-brake. 3) A differential that begged to differ; 4) electric gremlins that could have won an oscar if playing opposite Phoebe Cates; and various other sundries that had a tendency to fall off the vehicle.
But still I loved that Lotus. I'd definately get an Elise if I had $40K burning a hole in my wallet (But I'd get a Noble if I had $75K doing the same thing).
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 222
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I'm with MNI USA. Sorry, Hunter Boss, but a point system is not practical. Modification of a MINI is a personal decision and we respect our customers' individuality. But, if those modifications cause a problem, then the warranty becomes void. Please take a look at an excerpt from the MINI Warranty Booklet....
"Modification of your vehicle or installation of any non-approved aftermarket performance accessory will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle which alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle that result in damage to other original components will also void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty coverage."
If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns.
"Modification of your vehicle or installation of any non-approved aftermarket performance accessory will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle which alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle that result in damage to other original components will also void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty coverage."
If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
"I'm with MNI USA. Sorry ... Modification of your vehicle or installation of any non-approved aftermarket performance accessory will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle which alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle that result in damage to other original components will also void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty coverage."
"If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns."
Hmm ... right now I'm looking at a slick holographic offical MINI postcard. You tilt it one way and it looks like a stock Cooper ... you tilt it another way and it looks like tricked out fire-breathing racing/rally machine, i.e. racing seats, roll cage, fire extinguisher, roof rally lights, hood (bonnet) latches, metal head light stone guards, massive Subaru-type hood air scoop, aero kit, and extra-wide tires.
And .... on the back it says:
"Let's lower it. Let's raise it. Let's add a spoiler. Let's minus a spoiler. Let's trick it out. Let's rein it in. Let's detail the roof. Let's strip the roof. Let's flame paint it. Let's de-flame paint it. Let's show everyone what we got inside. LET'S MOTOR."
Are we getting mixed messages here??? I wonder just how many of the "trick" items item in the holographic image would void the warranty??
ftbt
2002 Works Cooper S, Sn. 1165, DS/W; Sport + Premium + Alta CAI + Unichip + H Sport Springs, Competition Front & Rear Sway Bars, Rear Camber Control Arms + 17" Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's; 215-45-17 Kumho MX's + AP Racing Formula Big Brakes, X Drilled + Slotted Rotors, Goodridge SS Lines + Cobra Daytonas + Clear Bra + Schroth Harness and a full tank of 100 octane ... life is good!
2002 CVT Cooper LY/W + Sport + 17" S Lites & Pirelii Euforias + Clear Bra
"If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns."
Hmm ... right now I'm looking at a slick holographic offical MINI postcard. You tilt it one way and it looks like a stock Cooper ... you tilt it another way and it looks like tricked out fire-breathing racing/rally machine, i.e. racing seats, roll cage, fire extinguisher, roof rally lights, hood (bonnet) latches, metal head light stone guards, massive Subaru-type hood air scoop, aero kit, and extra-wide tires.
And .... on the back it says:
"Let's lower it. Let's raise it. Let's add a spoiler. Let's minus a spoiler. Let's trick it out. Let's rein it in. Let's detail the roof. Let's strip the roof. Let's flame paint it. Let's de-flame paint it. Let's show everyone what we got inside. LET'S MOTOR."
Are we getting mixed messages here??? I wonder just how many of the "trick" items item in the holographic image would void the warranty??
ftbt
2002 Works Cooper S, Sn. 1165, DS/W; Sport + Premium + Alta CAI + Unichip + H Sport Springs, Competition Front & Rear Sway Bars, Rear Camber Control Arms + 17" Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's; 215-45-17 Kumho MX's + AP Racing Formula Big Brakes, X Drilled + Slotted Rotors, Goodridge SS Lines + Cobra Daytonas + Clear Bra + Schroth Harness and a full tank of 100 octane ... life is good!
2002 CVT Cooper LY/W + Sport + 17" S Lites & Pirelii Euforias + Clear Bra
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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>>"I'm with MNI USA. Sorry ... Modification of your vehicle or installation of any non-approved aftermarket performance accessory will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle which alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications will void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty. Components attached to the vehicle that result in damage to other original components will also void the MINI new passenger car limited warranty coverage."
>>
>>"If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns."
>>
>>Hmm ... right now I'm looking at a slick holographic offical MINI postcard. You tilt it one way and it looks like a stock Cooper ... you tilt it another way and it looks like tricked out fire-breathing racing/rally machine, i.e. racing seats, roll cage, fire extinguisher, roof rally lights, hood (bonnet) latches, metal head light stone guards, massive Subaru-type hood air scoop, aero kit, and extra-wide tires.
>>
>>And .... on the back it says:
>>
>>"Let's lower it. Let's raise it. Let's add a spoiler. Let's minus a spoiler. Let's trick it out. Let's rein it in. Let's detail the roof. Let's strip the roof. Let's flame paint it. Let's de-flame paint it. Let's show everyone what we got inside. LET'S MOTOR."
>>
>>Are we getting mixed messages here??? I wonder just how many of the "trick" items item in the holographic image would void the warranty??
>>
>>ftbt
>>
>>2002 Works Cooper S, Sn. 1165, DS/W; Sport + Premium + Alta CAI + Unichip + H Sport Springs, Competition Front & Rear Sway Bars, Rear Camber Control Arms + 17" Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's; 215-45-17 Kumho MX's + AP Racing Formula Big Brakes, X Drilled + Slotted Rotors, Goodridge SS Lines + Cobra Daytonas + Clear Bra + Schroth Harness and a full tank of 100 octane ... life is good!
>>
>>2002 CVT Cooper LY/W + Sport + 17" S Lites & Pirelii Euforias + Clear Bra
>>
Don't read too much into the marketing line. Marketing is not what backs-up your warranty coverage, it is the actual warranty contract in your Owner's manual booklet.
>>
>>"If you have any further questions. please phone us at 866 ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200413200070 so that we can discuss your concerns."
>>
>>Hmm ... right now I'm looking at a slick holographic offical MINI postcard. You tilt it one way and it looks like a stock Cooper ... you tilt it another way and it looks like tricked out fire-breathing racing/rally machine, i.e. racing seats, roll cage, fire extinguisher, roof rally lights, hood (bonnet) latches, metal head light stone guards, massive Subaru-type hood air scoop, aero kit, and extra-wide tires.
>>
>>And .... on the back it says:
>>
>>"Let's lower it. Let's raise it. Let's add a spoiler. Let's minus a spoiler. Let's trick it out. Let's rein it in. Let's detail the roof. Let's strip the roof. Let's flame paint it. Let's de-flame paint it. Let's show everyone what we got inside. LET'S MOTOR."
>>
>>Are we getting mixed messages here??? I wonder just how many of the "trick" items item in the holographic image would void the warranty??
>>
>>ftbt
>>
>>2002 Works Cooper S, Sn. 1165, DS/W; Sport + Premium + Alta CAI + Unichip + H Sport Springs, Competition Front & Rear Sway Bars, Rear Camber Control Arms + 17" Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's; 215-45-17 Kumho MX's + AP Racing Formula Big Brakes, X Drilled + Slotted Rotors, Goodridge SS Lines + Cobra Daytonas + Clear Bra + Schroth Harness and a full tank of 100 octane ... life is good!
>>
>>2002 CVT Cooper LY/W + Sport + 17" S Lites & Pirelii Euforias + Clear Bra
>>
Don't read too much into the marketing line. Marketing is not what backs-up your warranty coverage, it is the actual warranty contract in your Owner's manual booklet.
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL
>>Modification of a MINI is a personal decision and we respect our customers' individuality. But, if those modifications cause a problem, then the warranty becomes void.
Very well said MINIDivision.
I think that is the first time I've heard you or MINIUSA agree with the Mag Moss act.
Happy Motoring,
Sfiveten
Very well said MINIDivision.
I think that is the first time I've heard you or MINIUSA agree with the Mag Moss act.
Happy Motoring,
Sfiveten
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