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R60 Jeep designing ultra compact crossover to duke it out witth the CM

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Old Jul 15, 2011 | 11:52 PM
  #1  
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Jeep designing ultra compact crossover to duke it out witth the CM

From C&D:

Jeep’s upcoming B-segment crossover will be positioned squarely against the Mini Countryman, according to sources within Fiat and Chrysler. The baby Jeep, which is being referred to internally as the “SS”—that stands for super small or super sport, and we can guarantee it’s not going anywhere on a production vehicle—will be even smaller than the current Patriot and Compass.


Chrysler’s engineers are busily preparing the vehicle, which will roughly match the dimensions of the Countryman, and we understand that management insists that the SS pack the off-roading capability that shoppers expect from something with the seven-slat grille. Even if the SS isn’t plastered with “Trail Rated” badges, that means it likely will need more ground clearance than the Countryman’s 5.9 inches.
Design and engineering for this new wee Jeep are being spearheaded out of Detroit—even though, like the Patriot and Compass replacement, it’ll be based on a Fiat-sourced compact platform—but the Italian teams are becoming more and more involved. The Europeans do, after all, have more expertise in making the most of small vehicles. We are hearing there are two competing ideas for the SS’s design. One school of thought is to make the SS rounder and, in a sense, emulate the Countryman’s shape. The other school proposes a boxy design, more similar to Jeep’s own Wrangler. A similar debate took place when the Compass and Patriot were being developed, although both were given the green light in the end. Chrysler will settle on a final design for the SS relatively soon—and this time, only one design will get the nod.

Like the Compass and Patriot, the SS will be offered with either front- or all-wheel drive, and the two-wheel-drive version is likely to have an electronic brake-based system that simulates a differential to help traction in the muck. We’ve also learned that the cheaper front-wheel-drive model could use a simple and cost-effective torsion-beam rear suspension, while the four-wheel-drive SS should get a multilink setup.


With Tiny Car Comes Tiny Power
Being a compact vehicle relying heavily on a Fiat-sourced platform, the Jeep SS will draw on Fiat’s powertrain department for motivation. The most likely choice is Fiat’s 1.4-liter four-cylinder engine with MultiAir; in the Fiat 500, this engine is good for only 101 hp, so we expect that if this engine is selected for the SS, it’ll pack a turbocharger and produce between 130 and 170 hp. Outside the U.S., the SS could receive Fiat’s new 875-cc, two-cylinder TwinAir engine with about 100 hp on tap. We’ve also learned that the baby Jeep could pack Chrysler’s upcoming ZF-designed nine-speed automatic gearbox. (As we previously reported, this transmission is specifically being developed for cars with transversely mounted engines, and will appear in the next-generation compact Chrysler and Fiat vehicles.)
We expect that the Jeep—whatever it’s eventually called—will hit the market in the second half of 2013. Fiat and Chrysler will have big expectations for its success; it’ll be the smallest Jeep yet, and the most fuel-efficient, too. Considering how well the Countryman has done for Mini, we think such a Jeep has a good shot at satisfying the suits in Auburn Hills.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-de...ni-countryman/
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 05:21 AM
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Most interesting, and not really surprising since they are bringing the Fiat 500 back to directly compete with MINI. If they badge this model as a Fiat rather than a Jeep, some folks might be interested, but true MINI aficionados won't give it a second glance.

I've had my Countryman S a week now (traded my 2010 Clubman) and can't imagine not having it! Love my CMS and certainly wouldn't look at a "fix it again Tony" or a Jeep as an alternative.

One other interesting point, the MINI dealership in Atlanta is moving after the first of the year - about 5 doors down from the new Fiat dealership.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 09:03 AM
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With Fiat in control of Chrysler and already not having a great reputation for reliability on it's own I'm not sure how well this "partnership" will play out for Chrysler in the long term. Here's hoping for the sake of the industry it does.

I was actually looking at the WK2 Grand Cherokee when it first came out. Vast improvement over any other Grand Cherokee or Jeep product before it. My grandma had a ZJ as well as several other family members, so Jeep has a pretty special place in my heart. If they can nail this product and make it in the mold of the WK2 GC it will be a hit. From reading this article it sounds as if Fiat is providing a chassis and letting Chrysler engineer it's own guts within those parameters. Still a ways off none the less.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 10:21 AM
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sounds just like the compass/patriot: will look great but as slow and under powered as a golf cart
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglebeagle
sounds just like the compass/patriot: will look great but as slow and under powered as a golf cart
In what world do they look great. Seriously the compass/patriot is a horrible car that looks awful and does nothing well, or even average. I can't see a single reason you would chose either over any other car.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 06:28 PM
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Are you really worried about a company that still sells the Wrangler with a 4 speed transmission and their top of line product the Grand Cherokee with a 5 speed transmission that gets terrible gas milage. You would think with a $6.5 billion dollar bailout that they could put some money into their vehicles instead of wasting it on "imported from Detroit" BS advertising. Our money really went to great use.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 06:35 PM
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Owned a Jeep before. If a CM will duke it out with a Jeep it will have to be at a Jeep service bay.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 06:51 PM
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My '02 Jeep was really reliable and had good power (though not the pickup or handling of my CM). If this new Jeep had been on the market, I would certainly have looked at it. As it was, I did look at the Compass, but the gas mileage numbers were disappointing, and the styling on the 2011 really, really did not appeal to me.

I hope Chrysler/Fiat can bring a cool little CUV to market in the next couple of years, even if it's not one that appeals to me. Good competition means better cars.
 
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Old Jul 29, 2011 | 12:10 PM
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that thing is uuuuugly.
 
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Old Jul 29, 2011 | 02:59 PM
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lol






I could see it as a delivery van
 
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Old Jul 29, 2011 | 03:49 PM
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hmmm looks like mini esque wheels in the second pic, but definitely toaster-influenced design cues!
 
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Old Dec 2, 2011 | 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BMW13
Are you really worried about a company that still sells the Wrangler with a 4 speed transmission and their top of line product the Grand Cherokee with a 5 speed transmission that gets terrible gas milage. You would think with a $6.5 billion dollar bailout that they could put some money into their vehicles instead of wasting it on "imported from Detroit" BS advertising. Our money really went to great use.
I'm sorry but the Wrangler would spank the Countryman and send it home crying. As far as reliability, the Jeep wins hands down. I've owned 4 Jeep Wranglers prior to buying my 09 MCS (which I really liked) and actually traded in a Rubicon for it. In the 2.5 years that I've owned the MINI it was in the shop more than those 4 Jeeps put together x2. The off-road capabilities of the Countryman are a joke. Thats why I went back to Jeep yesterday and got another Rubicon. While the gas milage isn't nothing to write home about, unless you need gas money, the new engine is pretty damn fast, 0-60 in 6.7 sec. The #'s on the CM are nothing compared the 285hp/260ft-lbs of torque. Also, it has a 5 speed auto and 6 speed manual. Not to mention the interior is leaps and bounds over the CM with WAY more room. MINI needs to stick to cool little cars that are fast and fun to drive and leave the big boy stuff to the masters........
 
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Old Dec 2, 2011 | 10:21 PM
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You have to admit that BMW13 does have some valid points. If the Wrangler is as good as you say, (Not sure that I entirely agree with you.) it's about the only thing Chrysler has going for it. The creation they are working on to compete with the CM will be an abomination and underpowered. Just look at the FIAT 500. What a toad. As well the thing will probably stand too tall and be top heavy gas hog ugly mobile.

I think the OP was talking about the vehicle being created to compete against the CM. He statement above is just talking to the lack of up to date components and technology that Chrysler is noted for using all across their product line. The fact that Fiat is involved frankly does not give me any sense of ease at all. And the fact that chrysler took our money to bail them out does not please me either.
Where's my bailout? (Not that I need one but I wanted to say it.)

Anyway I don't think the CM can compete with the Wrangler. It's not meant to and is unrealistic to think so. The Wrangler may fill your wants better than the CM but seems to me the CM buy for you was a mistake. (It happens.)
 
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Old Dec 2, 2011 | 10:35 PM
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^^ I don't relate Fiat and Jeep and I really don't think anybody does. Jeep has its own identity and will always be treated as such. As far as the FIAT....WOW, "Toad" Is a really good word. Curiosity got the best of me and I had to take a test drive. I laughed at the salesman when he said "shall I start doing the paperwork?" That thing was horrible and I told him so. I didn't get a CM, I got an 09 MCS which happens to be one of my favorite cars (and thats a lot). But I needed an SUV as well as more room and the CM just wasn't a SUV no matter how you look at it. And have you seen the new 300's? Man, I didn't like the older ones but the new ones are on point.
 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 01:06 AM
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That photo is of a Fiat Qubo, you would think they would have checked the Fiat webpage.

 

Last edited by KiwiRob; Dec 3, 2011 at 01:13 AM.
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 03:07 AM
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by KiwiRob
That photo is of a Fiat Qubo, you would think they would have checked the Fiat webpage.

even JLo could not show enough skin in a commercial to offset this frankenstein of a vehicle. if this is what Jeep is planning to badge then i think it will be DOA.
 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 05:36 AM
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You're funny. I own a Jeep as well as a Mini. Apples and oranges. I love my Jeep, but for utility and off-road capability - I drive in the sand a lot, where I would never take my Mini, because it would probably get stuck really good. But for commuting, errands, long trips, and bad weather (mostly torrential downpours down here in the south), I take my Mini. The Jeep is a local vehicle. But you can't argue with its success - so many Jeeps around here.

Originally Posted by ballandchain
I'm sorry but the Wrangler would spank the Countryman and send it home crying. As far as reliability, the Jeep wins hands down. I've owned 4 Jeep Wranglers prior to buying my 09 MCS (which I really liked) and actually traded in a Rubicon for it. In the 2.5 years that I've owned the MINI it was in the shop more than those 4 Jeeps put together x2. The off-road capabilities of the Countryman are a joke. Thats why I went back to Jeep yesterday and got another Rubicon. While the gas milage isn't nothing to write home about, unless you need gas money, the new engine is pretty damn fast, 0-60 in 6.7 sec. The #'s on the CM are nothing compared the 285hp/260ft-lbs of torque. Also, it has a 5 speed auto and 6 speed manual. Not to mention the interior is leaps and bounds over the CM with WAY more room. MINI needs to stick to cool little cars that are fast and fun to drive and leave the big boy stuff to the masters........
 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 06:04 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by ballandchain
I'm sorry but the Wrangler would spank the Countryman and send it home crying.
Apples and oranges. Offroad, the Wrangler would destroy the CM. On any pavement, the CM would destroy the Wrangler. In the common real world scenario of snow on pavement, I'd be interested to see. The Jeep's 4WD system is pretty awesome, but I'm curious as to whether the CM's computer controlled torque delivery results in more control. I moved from a Liberty to the CM, so I'll let y'all know what I think once we have some snow and I and I can get out in my CM and tear it up.

Originally Posted by ballandchain
As far as reliability, the Jeep wins hands down.
My Jeep was really reliable too, but personal, anecdotal information aside, while Jeep generally does better in reliability numbers than MINI, it doesn't do a lot better. The Jeep also shreds its own front diff if you engage 4WD on roads that aren't slippery enough. I dunno if the newer ones have a different 4WD system that doesn't do that, but it was a pain on my old Jeep. You'd have a day where you really wanted to have it on, but using it was bad for the front diff. I would usually err on the side of safety, which meant I had to have the differential repaired twice during the life of the car and the front axle rebuilt at 120,000 miles.

Originally Posted by ballandchain
The off-road capabilities of the Countryman are a joke.
Hardly a joke. The CM doesn't have the clearance for serious offroading, as two seconds of looking at it would reveal. It's not advertised, sold, or equipped for serious offroading. That's like saying the track capabilities of the Wrangler are a joke.

Originally Posted by ballandchain
Thats why I went back to Jeep yesterday and got another Rubicon. While the gas milage isn't nothing to write home about, unless you need gas money, the new engine is pretty damn fast, 0-60 in 6.7 sec.
The mileage is about 1/3 worse than the CM (17/21mpg).

Originally Posted by ballandchain
MINI needs to stick to cool little cars that are fast and fun to drive and leave the big boy stuff to the masters........
It's sort of an odd comparison. I doubt anybody thinks the CM is angling for the Wrangler's market niche of serious offroaders and 20-something women. But for those of us that want AWD for lots of real-world situations but have no interest in trail driving as a hobby, the CM hits a nice niche.

The question of the thread is not whether a CM can replace a Wrangler on a trail (it obviously can't and isn't trying to) but whether Jeep can come out with a cool little car that's efficient and capable to compete in the CM's niche. The Wrangler isn't in that class of car, and the Compass, in my view, doesn't beat the CM.
 

Last edited by tippykayak; Dec 3, 2011 at 06:10 AM.
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 08:46 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by bostonterrier
even JLo could not show enough skin in a commercial to offset this frankenstein of a vehicle. if this is what Jeep is planning to badge then i think it will be DOA.
This sort of vehicle is very popular in Europe, a lot of manufacturers make something similar.

Citroen Berlingo



Renault Kangoo



Fiat Doblo



Skoda Roomster



Skoda Yeti

 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 08:51 AM
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That Skoda Yeti is pretty sweet!!!!!!!
 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ballandchain
That Skoda Yeti is pretty sweet!!!!!!!
Jeremy Clarkson raved about it on TopGear.
 
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Old Dec 3, 2011 | 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bostonterrier
even JLo could not show enough skin in a commercial to offset this frankenstein of a vehicle. if this is what Jeep is planning to badge then i think it will be DOA.
The Fiat 500 is pretty cool though, especially the Abarth version. Wouldn't mind having one of those and the Countryman in the same stable.
 
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