the carb on my car, right one?
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1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2009
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the carb on my car, right one?
i have a 1979 mini 1000, trying to get a HIF44 carb tunned on it, cant seem to get it going nice... i assume they had something more like a su 37 or something like that, just wondering if anyone out there has a HIF44 on there 1000 and not having issues, new carb.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,037
Likes: 283
From: Melbourne, FL
I'm no expert but I've dug around for as much info as I can find over the years. I'm gessing this is replacing what ever was on the car b4?
1. Did you get the "new carb" from MiniMania or Seven; or a private party? MM or 7 would probably have asked about your particular engine setup ... a lot of 'tuning' an SU is the needle. If you have the wrong needle there won't be much you can do to compensate with the other adjustments on the carb, IME. Something as simple as changing from a stock air cleaner to a cone filter means you need a different needle. Seven is very helpful if you need to buy a new needle .... You can find software out there to help guide you in needle selection. I find a call to Seven much less work!
2. What reference are you using? Haynes has a procedure but it is generic. Books on the SU can give somewhat more 'model specific' advice. I use SU Carburetters Tuning Tips & Techniques, Brookland Books; I believe MiniMania still has it.
3. There are a lot of dead links here...but several good ones too. A lot of data to digest http://www.teglerizer.com/sucarbs/index.html
4. I believe the 44 is a clone to the HIF-6; a 1 & 3/4 inch body? Some references say this is too much carb for a 1000 ... I'd take that to mean an all stock 1000. If you have a bigger exhaust etc the story might be different. I run a 6 with a cone filter, with a different intake manifold, and a LCB to a large pipe PlayMini exhaust on a 1275.
5. Many references say the 'seat of the pants' setup procedures are not any good and the only real way to set up an SU is to get the car on a dyno, hooked up to an exhaust analyzer, with a knowledgeable SU tech who has an assortment of needles on the bench. I've only found one place where I could satisfy all those requirements.....and I'll admit they adjusted my carb so fast it made my head spin. As soon as I pulled in the drive they knew exactly what was needed. If you are in VA Beach sometime stop by Abacus Racing. I'm sure there are plenty of others but this was who came thru for me.
6. What are your particular symptons? I'll try to step thru the fault finding charts I have.
Just some thoughts . . .
btw...common SU models used in Mini applications include:
H1, H2, HS2, H4, HS4, HIF44, HS6, HIF6
probably not a complete list, just what I've come across.
I've not found a reference to any H3 ever being produced. There 7 and 8 models, they are yet larger bore carb used on Jags, Rolls, Aston Martin
1. Did you get the "new carb" from MiniMania or Seven; or a private party? MM or 7 would probably have asked about your particular engine setup ... a lot of 'tuning' an SU is the needle. If you have the wrong needle there won't be much you can do to compensate with the other adjustments on the carb, IME. Something as simple as changing from a stock air cleaner to a cone filter means you need a different needle. Seven is very helpful if you need to buy a new needle .... You can find software out there to help guide you in needle selection. I find a call to Seven much less work!
2. What reference are you using? Haynes has a procedure but it is generic. Books on the SU can give somewhat more 'model specific' advice. I use SU Carburetters Tuning Tips & Techniques, Brookland Books; I believe MiniMania still has it.
3. There are a lot of dead links here...but several good ones too. A lot of data to digest http://www.teglerizer.com/sucarbs/index.html
4. I believe the 44 is a clone to the HIF-6; a 1 & 3/4 inch body? Some references say this is too much carb for a 1000 ... I'd take that to mean an all stock 1000. If you have a bigger exhaust etc the story might be different. I run a 6 with a cone filter, with a different intake manifold, and a LCB to a large pipe PlayMini exhaust on a 1275.
5. Many references say the 'seat of the pants' setup procedures are not any good and the only real way to set up an SU is to get the car on a dyno, hooked up to an exhaust analyzer, with a knowledgeable SU tech who has an assortment of needles on the bench. I've only found one place where I could satisfy all those requirements.....and I'll admit they adjusted my carb so fast it made my head spin. As soon as I pulled in the drive they knew exactly what was needed. If you are in VA Beach sometime stop by Abacus Racing. I'm sure there are plenty of others but this was who came thru for me.
6. What are your particular symptons? I'll try to step thru the fault finding charts I have.
Just some thoughts . . .
btw...common SU models used in Mini applications include:
H1, H2, HS2, H4, HS4, HIF44, HS6, HIF6
probably not a complete list, just what I've come across.
I've not found a reference to any H3 ever being produced. There 7 and 8 models, they are yet larger bore carb used on Jags, Rolls, Aston Martin
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 117
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The HIF44 (1 3/4) is to big for the 1000. With the stock motor you have to extremely lean out the carb (changing to a different needle) It will run, but poorly....
The best that I have tuned and used on a 1000 is a HIF38 which gives good results with a lightly built street motor (stage 1 kit) ,or a dual carb setup (HS 2, or 4's)
Lastly, there is a tool you can use to help set the carb, or a least get it close to what it should be until you can get it on a dyno or to someone who can properly set it. The link is below.....I have one in my toolbox and I don't regret it one bit!!
http://www.minisport.com/mini-spare-..._GUNG4074.html
The best that I have tuned and used on a 1000 is a HIF38 which gives good results with a lightly built street motor (stage 1 kit) ,or a dual carb setup (HS 2, or 4's)
Lastly, there is a tool you can use to help set the carb, or a least get it close to what it should be until you can get it on a dyno or to someone who can properly set it. The link is below.....I have one in my toolbox and I don't regret it one bit!!
http://www.minisport.com/mini-spare-..._GUNG4074.html
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2009
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currently have a 998, stage1kit.. hif 44 carb, with cone filter. tomorrow will be changing to elec ign. i have a whole buch of other cars... su37? not working at all(needs complete rebuild) and i believe some SUs, dont know, has side bowl, and only about an inch hole going to the manifold, but theres 2 of them...(twin carb setup) but i think if i cant tune 1, i shouldnt attempt 2 of them..
i have 3 books on how to tune su carbs, just need to take the time and read them.
i have 3 books on how to tune su carbs, just need to take the time and read them.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,037
Likes: 283
From: Melbourne, FL
this last post brings several points to mind....
1. There is a school of thought that says NEVER and I mean NEVER mess with the fuel system until you are 110% sure the ignition is spot on. Getting the fuel delivery right on bad ignition simply means you get to start over again later..... You mention getting ready to change ignition. Is there a problem?
2. The older SUs have the bowl off to the side and the very late ones have the bowl "in line". My books say a 79 1000 had a pair of HS4 if I'm reading it right and there are those that say a single HIF44/HIF6/HS6 actually provides more flow. But I'm just saying what I read .... I don't KNOW (for the last part).
3. There is the issue of the SU design (which means reading some of those books b4 you dive into the work) with regards to carb adjustments on the SU from the Brooklands book I mentioned, speaking to the 'mix adjustment screw', "The adjustment nut, then, in all essence can be termed an idling mixture adjustment nut." Point being, yes you can use a 'colortune' and get a great look at idle. But once off idle the mixture is determined by the needle. Great idle + bad needle = crappy ride. Welcome to the SU carb. Yes the needle has a function at idle too but at idle the needle should be "shut off" as I understand things and while in the older carbs there WAS a need to consider the mix adjustment in conjunction with the needle while in the later carbs this appears to be either insignificant or an accepted risk. On later SU as I have the access is blocked - emission control units. To adjust the mix on my carb I'm told I must drill out an access port which is factory sealed. (Abacus did not, nor did they recommend drilling out the access to adjust the carb and after searching out a vacuum leak which they knew was there they just needed to find it . . . then went straight to my ignition system....)
4. If I can't adjust 1, I shouldn't attempt 2 ..... that's the very reason replacing twin's with a single big bore is a recommended change if you want it to run good vs look original.
5. Last comment for now: why do twin 1&1/4 inch carbs move less volume then a single 1&3/4 inch carb? I have no idea but I was a math and later a computer science major .... not a physics major nor a engine mechanics expert . . .
1. There is a school of thought that says NEVER and I mean NEVER mess with the fuel system until you are 110% sure the ignition is spot on. Getting the fuel delivery right on bad ignition simply means you get to start over again later..... You mention getting ready to change ignition. Is there a problem?
2. The older SUs have the bowl off to the side and the very late ones have the bowl "in line". My books say a 79 1000 had a pair of HS4 if I'm reading it right and there are those that say a single HIF44/HIF6/HS6 actually provides more flow. But I'm just saying what I read .... I don't KNOW (for the last part).
3. There is the issue of the SU design (which means reading some of those books b4 you dive into the work) with regards to carb adjustments on the SU from the Brooklands book I mentioned, speaking to the 'mix adjustment screw', "The adjustment nut, then, in all essence can be termed an idling mixture adjustment nut." Point being, yes you can use a 'colortune' and get a great look at idle. But once off idle the mixture is determined by the needle. Great idle + bad needle = crappy ride. Welcome to the SU carb. Yes the needle has a function at idle too but at idle the needle should be "shut off" as I understand things and while in the older carbs there WAS a need to consider the mix adjustment in conjunction with the needle while in the later carbs this appears to be either insignificant or an accepted risk. On later SU as I have the access is blocked - emission control units. To adjust the mix on my carb I'm told I must drill out an access port which is factory sealed. (Abacus did not, nor did they recommend drilling out the access to adjust the carb and after searching out a vacuum leak which they knew was there they just needed to find it . . . then went straight to my ignition system....)
4. If I can't adjust 1, I shouldn't attempt 2 ..... that's the very reason replacing twin's with a single big bore is a recommended change if you want it to run good vs look original.
5. Last comment for now: why do twin 1&1/4 inch carbs move less volume then a single 1&3/4 inch carb? I have no idea but I was a math and later a computer science major .... not a physics major nor a engine mechanics expert . . .
Last edited by Capt_bj; Mar 20, 2010 at 02:54 PM.
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2009
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wasnt anything wrong with the ign, just wanted something a little more reliable. did the timing, set the carb today, still a little rough... need to change my engine mounts, lots of movement, thinking that might be a bit of a prob.
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