I just spent two days on the track with my S Works. This is the first time on the track for the car. I have not modified my car in any way. I have a question which others may assist with. I ran with the DSC turned off. I was told by a gentleman who tests cars for GM (did testing for the LeMans pace car last year) that even when I "turn off" the DSC, it is not "totally off" and I may need to remove the fuse to the DSC to really turn it off. Has anyone heard of this or tried it????? Thanks

 

1st a Logic check: How would a GM guy have any knowledge of a BMW system?

Ok, now with that out of the way, here's my take: when you turn that switch off, the driving is all up to you, totally zero help from the DSC. It does not seem that the DSC is like some other systems, like Volvo's active control for the S60R, where when you hit the switch it tells you "assist reduced". I suppose the only real way to tell would be to monitor the DSC's outputs when it's turned off. Anyone know if Tektronik has a DC-powered scope?

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There are two walls at Sebring with Minibeast imprints. Trust me, when it's off, ITS OFF!

 

I did the BMW driving experience in Spartinburg, SC last may and drove the 330i. My brother has a '00 323i and I have a '03 MCS so I know atleast some about the electronic widgets that BMW makes (or actually BOSCH). On the new 3-series (and I guess the other models) the DSC is a two step deactivation, that is, the first time you press the button (not a toggle on 3-series) it allows for more wheel spin and skid and if you press it again, then it turns it all the way off. That is not true on my brother's BMW or my MCS (you can tell by pressing the button once and the light goes on and then again and the light goes back off). I have not heard of that happening to the MINI. I understand that what you asked is a little different in that he said you have to take out the fuse but I seriously doubt that to be true and here is why: when DSC is on, you can feel and hear (sounds like the noise ABS makes, cause it IS the ABS working to brake certain wheels, and you can feel the cut in power). When I flip the toggle and turn DSC off, I can do a complete 180 (handbrake ) or burnout with out any electronic intervention. So if it is on when the little DSC light is constant, it is so laid back that it doesn't help. But like I said, I doubt that to be true. What is true is that ABS stays on all the time (the BMW driving experince cars that a hotwired switch which turns ABS off but it also deactivates the speedo ). Anyways, be careful which GM people you listen too, especially about a non-GM car. No, I am sure they are just as knowledgeble as any other car enthusist.

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MOTOR ON!!

 

Well the GM reference got quite a response. This"guy" is more than familiar with the Bosch system. He also tests for BMW if that helps clarify his knowledge. He says the Bosch system is never really off and as npartist says is a two step system. I was just curious as if anyone had heard of this.

 

Well, at risk of hearing all of the "I don't know how to drive" responses, I will say it again.

When my DSC is OFF, I can NOT use the e-brake without the d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d of the ABS system working. :evil: I can spin the wheels till I'm blue in the face though! (as seen here http://massracing.com/files/CciSummer2003.wmv Just prior to that burnout, I made a fool of myself by trying to break the back end loose with the e-brake.

I know how to do it, it just won't do it! I can toss around a front wheel drive car as good as anyone. I can e-brake a VW in precision manuvers.

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Custom cut springs, custom full body decal, custom 4" exhaust w/8" tip, custom 25 deg. camber setting, custom two level wing, custom 32 duct body kit, and NOS (just the bottle). 18's rear/15's front. Gull-wing conv. coming...

 

As far as I know, when you hit the DCS button in all BMW products, it only removes it 70% IE it is not fully off. I know for a fact that in the new M3, if you press it, it leaves you with 30% but if you keep it pressed for something like 6 seconds, it turns it completely off. As far as I know it is not the same in the Mini.

So that guy was probably right.

Louay

 

DSC - Off = off.

 

MINI DSC - Off = off.

 

>>I just spent two days on the track with my S Works. This is the first time on the track for the car. I have not modified my car in any way. I have a question which others may assist with. I ran with the DSC turned off. I was told by a gentleman who tests cars for GM (did testing for the LeMans pace car last year) that even when I "turn off" the DSC, it is not "totally off" and I may need to remove the fuse to the DSC to really turn it off. Has anyone heard of this or tried it????? Thanks

I'm an instructor at the track and it depends on the car. I've instructed drivers in 911 turbos and even if you turn the DSC off, it will still come on. I race a 2002 Corvette Z06 and when it's OFF its' OFF, the same with my M3.

The answer is it depends on the car. When the DSC in the Mini is off, it's off. Believe me if it was ON you would KNOW it. When the DSC comes on it is very noticable especially at the track.

RaceCarDriver

 

I know that in M5s, you have to pull fuses 17 and 30 in order to get an accurate dyno test, otherwise at 5,500 RPM the DSC will interfere and cut power...even with the DSC "off"... Now, for 2003 M5s, apparently you even have to pull the whole DSC unit in order to get full power.

I think for a track pulling the DSC would be unnecessary, though...since the DSC is cutting power based upon the relative rates of rotation of the front and rear wheels...

Edit: Look at the last post here to see how they successfully disabled the DSC on an '03 for dynoing: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...ht=dsc+fuse%2A

 

The MINI has multiple built in features. DSC can be turned off with the toggle switch but ASC is passive and cannot be turned off with a switch.

(standard on all MCS) ASC +T= Automatic Stability Control (or All Season Traction Control). Helps stability- stops front wheel spin (reduces engine torque and/or applies brake force to one or more wheels) , esp on tight bends and slippery surfaces.

DSC-Dynamic Stability Control-Avail for MC and MCS. The DSC uses sensors to measure steering angle, yaw, and lateral acceleration to determine the direction you want to go. If your path is not what you intended, the DSC will apply the right amount of brake pressure to individual wheels and manipulate engine torque.

Best way to tell the difference is to run the MINI on the track for two laps with and without the DSC enabled.
Can you tell the difference based on the way your drive?

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I've heard this too, from MINI & BMW "MA"s

David
-V--V-

 

Just to throw my .02 into the ring:

I've driven at the track with the DSC on and the DSC off, and the car is totally different. I felt absolutely NO DSC action when I had it off. And the car will SPIN with the DSC off.

Bisch, we've had this discussion before, and I'm still just as utterly confused as I was before, but just a couple of points: 1) Turning off DSC has no effect on the ABS system. The ABS system will operate normally upon brake lock-up regardless of the DSC's status 2) Which wheels are you claiming lock up on you when you attempt an e-brake slide, the fronts or the rears? 3) I think that I remember asking you this before, but I'll re-ask anyway: are you using the floor brake in addition to your e-brake when you're trying to do the spin?

I'm not trying to insinuate that "you don't know what you're doing" or anything like that at all. I'm just wondering if for some reason your ABS system is activating upon e-braking, while mine (and apparently others') is not. I can tell you from frequent e-brake assisted u-turns to grab precious parking spaces, my car will slide, and as long as I'm not floor braking, the ABS will not engage.

Also, FWIW, I have heard that in some of the later model Porsches, it's impossible to get the DSC totally off. I'm thinking I read it in an Autoweek article....

 

>>
2) Which wheels are you claiming lock up on you when you attempt an e-brake slide, the fronts or the rears?

Rear only

3) I think that I remember asking you this before, but I'll re-ask anyway: are you using the floor brake in addition to your e-brake when you're trying to do the spin?
>>

E-brake only, no floor brake

And, It only happens if I am in a turn. It will lock going in a straight line, not in a turn/spin. I look like a retard when I try to slide it out.

 

>>
>>And, It only happens if I am in a turn. It will lock going in a straight line, not in a turn/spin. I look like a retard when I try to slide it out.
>>

So we have to "Lock" then "Turn"? Will that still activate the ABS on the rears? Ummm, just thought of something... Isn't the Emergency brake cable operated and doesn't it completely bypass the capabilities of the ABS?

 

>>Isn't the Emergency brake cable operated and doesn't it completely bypass the capabilities of the ABS?

This was the consensus last time we discussed this, but Bisch swears that his ABS comes on. I don't get it...

At a driving school, we took turns doing skids and I watched a dozen different MINIs skid over and over again--there were instructors in the cars pulling the e-brakes to various levels to simulate skids. I watched them skid again and again, nobody was unable to skid. What I'm wondering is: is it possible that Bisch's ASC+T could be improperly calibrated and it's kicking in when it shouldn't be? I don't know...that's all I can come up with.

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>>The MINI has multiple built in features. DCS can be turned off with the toggle switch but ASC is passive and cannot be turned off with a switch.
>>
>>(standard on all MCS) ASC +T= Automatic Stability Control (or All Season Traction Control). Helps stability- stops front wheel spin (reduces engine torque and/or applies brake force to one or more wheels) , esp on tight bends and slippery surfaces.
>>
>>DSC-Dynamic Stability Control-Avail for MC and MCS. The DSC uses sensors to measure steering angle, yaw, and lateral acceleration to determine the direction you want to go. If your path is not what you intended, the DSC will apply the right amount of brake pressure to individual wheels and manipulate engine torque.
>>
>>Best way to tell the difference is to run the MINI on the track for two laps with and without the DSC enabled.
>>Can you tell the difference based on the way your drive?


Thank you for the correct answer on this quiz show where everyone has their own answers, hehe.
But really, thanks for posting the correct answer, Minihune.
People always act like DSC and ASC are the same thing...DSC is the only one you have a switch for...ASC you can't switch off easily.

 

On the MCS I test-drove, when the DSC was off- it was truly off (came into
a tight turn with bumps and a little gravel). The back slid out momentairly, then understeer. Off is indeed off. Now what I'm not sure is the CBC (Corner Brake Control) and know the ABS is still active. EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution?)
would also still be active too?

On my Vette- the Stability Control has two modes- full on (traction ctrl + skid control + ABS) and "competiton" mode which allows small skids, no traction control (burnouts!), but still retains skid control- albeit slightly less heavy handed... And of course off (ABS only) for donuts! My friends Oldmobile Aurora you can turn off traction control, but skid control remains. Tho a heavy car like that skidding, not cool... So thats insight as to how GM does it...

laters,

-Matt

 

Gee, ya know...I have not tried to do an e-brake slide since the "cold start problem" started. Maybe by getting that little unwanted upgrade, I have lost this little issue :smile:

 

Great topic! So who had faster laps with or without DSC?????

 

>>Great topic! So who had faster laps with or without DSC?????
I would venture to guess that the laps done without DSC were not only faster but more fun.

 

minihune:

what do you think the effect of an LSD would be on the AST operation?

 

I would guess that a good driver that knows the limits of the car, and the proper line on a track would get better results with the DCS ON...

I say this based on where the technology is coming from. I might be a little hopefull here, but I'm asuming that at least SOME of the tech that's in the minis comes from the WilliamsBMW F1s. No?

GO SHUMI

Louay

 

samawil I can tell you that DSC is not good on a track. I have 15 years of racing experience so I know how a "free" car feels. Last weekend was the first time I had my MINI on the track. I had DSC on for about 5 laps and then remembered to turn it off. Trust me you could really feel the difference... mainly the car not bogging down when applying power midturn and exiting turns. All this with no mods to suspension and with runflats. Mods, tires, wheels to come prior to next "event".