1-18-2009
I guess I'm posting this to vent more than provide me with any solutions. I have an 05' mcs, 6 spd, all packages except nav and JCW. In early Nov, I began having electrical issues. Major issues like turn signals not working, brake lights not working, dash lights not working, radio not working. After having the car returned to me three times without being fixed, the car is still in their possession in the process of getting the entire wiring harness replaced nearly three months later. It's being covered by the warranty but after being nearly completely disassembled (SEE PHOTOS) and no promise this will fix the problem as it was a diagnosis of exclusion, I don't want the car. I have more of a time crunch. I am in the US Navy and am deploying to IRAQ in less than two weeks. They've already told me the car would likely not be returned to me before I'm leaving for Iraq. They expect my wife, along with our 10 month old infant, and 3 y.o. toddler to take care of it after I leave. I escalated a complaint to corporate BMW/Mini with a very dissatisfying result. They offered me "trade assist" which amounted to them giving me an auction price for my existing Mini and would sell me the new car I selected at invoice. Mind you, while I'm deployed to Iraq, I could buy any BMW product at near invoice prices with their Overseas Military Sales program. So the deal amounted to CRAP. I'm out the time frame for lemon law, so that is not an option. They have offered me $1000 for my troubles and I have had a loaner car for the duration. That's in addition to endless hours on the phone and a number of subtle insults from the Mini reps. What is sad, is I would have been satisfied with either an extension to my warranty or a reasonable market value for my car. I had already been talking to the BMW rep for OMS to purchase either a new 135i or 335i convertible. I will be getting out of the brand all together. I just have to decide if I'm going to sell my BMW k1200RS motorcycle out of principle. Please feel free to contact me at jgiacoman@yahoo.com.

 

You might still have some legal recourse, but given your situations, probably not ideal to wrestle with that. Regardless, hope it all gets resolved (preferably fixed) soon. Do what you can. Good luck!
Greg

 

Your car is 4 years old. Almost or practically out of warranty. Lemon law in most states covers for 2 years/24K miles (Like in Florida).

Seems to me it is not MINI's fault that you are being deployed to IRAQ in the midst of this mess (Thanks for your service, by the way).

Their offer to "trade assist" you out of the car is probably your best bet. You can't sell the car privately or trade it in at a dealership.

An extension on the warranty is not too much of an unreasonable offer. But then again, why do you want to keep a car with unfixable electrical problems to begin with

MINI will offer you auction price for the car. Consider yourself lucky to receive such an offer on an "old" lemon car (How many miles on it?)

Since you are deploying half a world away, enlisting legal counsel might not be a time/cost efficient option for you.

MINI Basically took apart the car (On their dime) and said to themselves "This thing is f****ed up beyond belief". They did not charge you for the tear down and the labor...Seems very fair to me.

If you want to leave MINI your options become a lot more narrow. See what they say about the BMW 1 series, but remember, that car is on its 1st year = unknown problems down the road.

Hope you get to resolve your issues.

 

I re-read your post.... So MINI is footing the bill for the tear down and replacing the wiring harness.... And you want a new car?

I don't see why MINI would be under any obligation to replace a 4 year old car. The warranty is covering the repairs and clearly they are fulfilling their obligation under the terms of the new car warranty.

If you no longer want the car, then that is a different story. MINI is being generous by giving you a trade assist option.

And pardon me, but how do you know for a fact that replacing the harness will not fix the electrical issues you were having? You don't know that until the car is returned to you, right?

I honestly don't see where MINI is treating you badly....

 

I think this is clearly a case of overreaction. They tried fixing the problem in the past and were unable and are now going through rather extreme measures to try and fix it (under warranty) while also offering a trade-in deal for your convenience. Deployments suck, I've done them myself, but what keeps your wife from picking up the car from the dealership? These are the kinds of burdens military spouses shoulder and there are people in the FRG who are more than willing to assist as well. They can't hurry their people along because you have a short time table and I'm sure you knew about your deployment prior, probably as far back as when the problems themselves first surfaced so it's not like it's a surprise. See if the wiring harness fixes it, if it doesn't tell them you're interested in the trade-in deal but will be deployed. Have them buy the car, sit on the money for a bit (I'm assuming you have a third car in addition to the bike and MINI) and when you get back buy a 1 series or whatever you want. In this case you can use the deployment to your favor as you can sell the MINI easily enough to the dealer and they may be willing to work with you on possible other purchases.

 

I'm not going to judge because the situation is obviously very frustrating and you having to leave your family is even more stressful! So first, thank you for your service.

I don't agree that MINI is not treating you well. They do appear to be doing everything that is reasonable, and even beyond that. We're missing some details, but if you had this car since brand new at least you got several good years out of it. They've given you a loaner as well as offered you cash just for your trouble, and are trying to repair it under warranty. So your wife will have a car to drive, with no cost of mileage/wear & tear, until it's repaired. Just in getting the free loaner you are doing far, far better than most of us!

I would say first, see if they will give you actual market value for the car. If so, get that trade assistance offer from MINI in writing. Let them fix the car, and THEN if you're still unhappy, trade it. If you were going to be stuck without a car while this was going on, then I'd say just trade it and run, but they appear to be at least *trying* to do the right thing, so I would run with that until the decision is clear.

I agree that it's unfortunate that it appears your wife will have to deal with this mess, especially with an infant and toddler! My cars never break when it's convenient for me either I would just discuss the various things that *could* happen with her and the decisions that would go with each scenario.

But I wouldn't just write it off at a loss yet. I'd see if I could negotiate for better trade-in first, and also let them try to fix it...it could work out to be win-win if you can be patient enough to see what happens.

 

Your car is covered under the Moss-Magnuson (warranty)Act. The law applies specifically to vehicles that the manufacturer fails to fix under warranty. In MINI's case, you are covered under this law for 4 years, 50,000 miles. Contact www.lemonlaw.com. They will represent you at BMW's cost (as mandated by the Act). I have had success with this approach. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

 

There is no breach of warranty in part of MINI.

 

+1, it sounds like MINI has actually bent over backwards in this case, even if they haven't been successful in getting it fixed so far. It is a British car, with British electrics...sometimes the fix isn't so easy. I agree the situation is a complete PITA, but it sounds like MINI is being as accommodating as possible. If I were in the OP's shoes, I would be happy as long as they were making a concerted effort to fix it at their own cost, and as long as I had a loaner in the meantime.

And a complete harness re-wire can take a LONG time. There have been several stories here on NAM where mice ate through harnesses or other random electrical gremlins necessitated a harness replacement and it was INCREDIBLY costly and took a ton of hours of labor.

 

If they can't fix the problem, there is! The warranty is a contract with the customer to fix any issue covered under the warranty. There are specific time limits specified under the Act.
jgiacoman has a solid case. BMW has an obligation to cover the difference between the value of the unfixable vehicle (auction value?) and the current market value of a fully functioning vehicle in similar condition if they are unable to fix it within a reasonable period of time.

 

Thanks for your service and best of luck with your MINI. The pictures are amazing - looks like MINI is really trying to get this fixed for you.

 

The MINI is a German car with German BMW electrics/electronics. It just happens to be assembled in England.

The electrical system in the R53 MINI is very similar to that found in the E36 and E46 BMW 3 series.

 

Moss-Magnuson act is a worthless piece of paper. To enforce any part of it involves hiring legal counsel at considerable time and expense. I very much doubt someone this is about to be deployed half a world away is going to engage in heavy duty legal proceedings.

As far as I can tell, MINI is fixing the vehicle and it is footing a very expensive bill for it (At least $5K by the looks of it). Before engaing in ambulance chasing The OP needs to give MINI that last opportunity to fix the vehicle.

From here, MINI is doing what is supposed to do. It is a 4 year old car and most auto makers would not be offering any assistance to trade on a vehicle that age.

 

They offered you $1000 for your time?


That sounds rather reasonable...

 

The are footing the bill for tearing down the car to pieces and fixing the wiring harness.

Then they are offering trade assistance if he is not still happy with the car post-repair.


Seems to me beyond reasonable. I understand his difficult life situation but some people think they are entitled to everything (No pun intended).

 

Please read the Act. The Act specifically requires the manufacturer to cover the legal costs. Attorneys specializing in Moss-Magnuson will proceed without retainer. Half way around the world is but a nano-second by email. jgiacoman is in danger of losing coverage under the Act if a formal notice is not filed with BMW or the courts prior to expiration of the warranty. If BMW ultimately resolves the issue, then the claim can be withdrawn.

Moss-Magnuson is not useless. I have first hand evidence of it's benefit.

 

First of all, I appreciate all the replies to my posting, thanks. To address some of the comments. It is probably true that I am more tense about the situation based solely on my upcoming deployment and that isn't Mini's fault, absolutely true. Are they trying to fix the car? yes, absolutely. Are they within their legal requirements, yeah, probably so far. I presume that I am also more emotional about this because I really loved my car. I have always taken really good care of it for its 28k miles, always parking it in my garage, etc. As it stands, they are still working on it, waiting for another part of the wiring harness. Not looking real promising getting it back before I leave but there is some hope. As I tried to convey in the original posting, they had offered me trade assist, which was an average auction price from "the black book" plus an invoice price on a new mini. Not a terrible deal if I didn't have the opportunity to buy at near invoice prices through OMS. Once again, not Mini's problem, right? The acution value offered was $13,500. The rough trade in price on NADA was $17,100. Mind you the car was in perfect shape without a ding on it. It's a car it's going to depreciate, I was just hoping to get more than 3.5 years/28k miles. Like I said, I wanted to own this car for years. And yes, it may be fixed after this without issues. I don't know. You've seen the pictures. Unfortunate. I have come to terms with this and don't want to my last days in country dealing with this. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

Best of luck to you and have a safe tour of duty.

 

I guess your other option would be to let them fix it, sell it in private sale, and use the proceeds towards a new one at near-invoice using OMS...

+1.

 

Show me links to successful cases were consumers have been able to seek relief under Magnuson-Moss. I can't find any.

 

Me either. Every once in awhile, someone here decides they're going to try it but no attorney will take it with the hope of it being paid by BMW in the end. I can remember one really specific case last year sometime, in a case worse than this (although now I don't remember exactly what the mechanical issue was) and they had the California BAR and an attorney involved, but in the end the attorney would not work for free on a case that could take months. The NAMer originally was so enthusiastic ("it's the principle, not the money") that he agreed to foot the legal bill...but after several months it was too expensive and he couldn't afford to anymore. I'd be curious to see documentation of a MM case that was successful and where the complaintant wasn't out lots of $$$ on the back end.

 

Look no further. I have first hand experience prevailing with MM. The reason that you don't see public resolution is that in most cases they are settled out of court with parties agreeing not to disclose the terms of the settlement. The attorney's at www.lemonlaw.com will take on cases that have validity.

 

Got word this afternoon, that after replacing the entire wiring harness, the car faulted immediately. Supposedly they think is a coming from the small part of the wiring harness that wasn't replaced. We'll see.

 

Ugh. What a PITA. And I actually sort of feel for the tech that put the man-hours in with no result

 

Seems the dealer is working hard at getting to the root cause of the problem. Hang in there soldier!