That's where I went last month, but couldn't find them.

I'll have to contact the Cal Club for the proper entrance location next time.

 

Drove all S's with Sport Button on. Hesitation and major turbo lag at low rpm's. Yes, S's have hesitation, at least to me they do.

None of my past cars had that, but I believe none had electric throttles either. In theory that shouldn't be the cause, so I'm guessing it's the tune plus turbo lag.

Throttle hesitation/lag is common on many of the new cars these days. I'm told it is the ECU tune for better gas mileage. Some have three modes instead of just two: Economy, Normal and Sport.

I've found that there is a clear difference between the normal and sport mode on the mini, but even the sport mode isn't as responsive as I would like. Not an issue for daily driving or spirited mountain roading.

IMHO what the mini needs is four modes: Economy, Normal, Sport and RACE!

 

You did turn off stability control, right? The factory traction control isn't really meant for competition driving, it's meant to help keep the most ham fisted of drivers safe in the rain. It's aggressive, and will cut throttle as soon as any wheelspin is detected.

 

+1
That would do it.

 

Don't know if DTC was on or off on the MINIcross cars? The cars were setup by Mini. If it's a problem when autocrossing, I'd assume they had it turned off. Throttle lag is not a selling point. Turbo lag is expected (to a point), that's one reason I didn't buy an "S". If they still offered superchargers I'd probably gone with that.

It will be interesting to see how my justa car performs. I'll be sure to engage sport mode and turn off the DTC for the best result it can give in stock form...

Another note. The cars didn't have window stickers in them. I'm wondering if the Clubman S that I drove and liked so well had the LSD option?

 

Did you start the car before you drove it? Government mandates that the stability control defaults to "on" with every key cycle. If it was off, there should have been an obvious yellow light on the dash that looks something like this:


Real LSD option went away in 2010 or so. You can only get the electronic diff now, which applies the brakes to the inside wheel in cornering to simulate a limited slip's action.

FWIW, the R56 has been faster than the R53 in autocross, which leads me to believe that the "throttle lag" you are describing is the traction control.

I recommend finding an SCCA or equivalent event and taking a ride with a top driver in a Mini. Prepare to have your face blown off.

 

Its pretty obvious if the DTC/DSC is on/off. In DTC mode it says "Traction" in the window in the tach, with DSC off there's a really obvious "DSC Off" Icon. If you didn't see either of those, DSC would be on.

 

The cars are never turned off, so they are running when you get into them. Sport Mode is engaged.

I did see that symbol on one car, but to be honest I wasn't looking at the tach or speed at all. They are all autos. Can you imagine what a disaster it would be to have manual transmissions at such a "public use" event! John Q. Public says, "Sure I can drive a stick", then proceeds to buck, jerk and stall the car... We'd all be waiting in line forever and the cars may not survive the abuse!

The Clubman I drove didn't seem to slide like the Coopers, just seemed easier to handle and control at WOT. It "felt" like something similar to a LSD was in place. Could have been the new braking eLSD system you mention. I certainly don't claim the Clubman to be faster, just seemed easier to drive and stuck to the road better. I suspect it was options and/or tire related.

That should be my avitar. Looks like a Black Ice Warning sign!!!

Going to hit a real autocross this weekend. Burgler & Btwyx I'll be sure to wear my Depends for that ride along...

 

Weird... when I put my car in DTC mode, it says "DTC" in the little tach-mounted display.

Back on topic, though, I agree that there's a HUGE difference between everything on and when everything's off.

BTW, have you had a chance to really experience the eLSD in the JCW, Btwyx? What do you think?

 

We've only just got through break in, so I haven't had a chance to really try yet. I'm not sure I'd notice on the street, I never noticed when I had a mechanical one.

I'll see what happens when we get to Laguna in October. (No convenient track days until then.)

 

I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts on it since you are one of [seemingly] few people that really get their MINIs out on the track often.

 

MINI changed the display; I think it was with the '11s. However, they both seem to work the same. One press of the button turns on the "traction" mode; press and hold turns it all off except the eLSD. You may need to experiment a little to see what the display shows.

If it helps, I have taken my S out on the track and used it in several autocrosses. IMO the eLSD works well. Not sure how it compares to a mechanical LSD, as I have never driven one, but it seems to work for what I do. It doesn't eliminate all of the slip of the inside wheel (nor will the the stock mechanical LSD), it eliminates most of it. I don't know how to prove this, but I believe that the eLSD will work better with a high friction track pad. My rationale for thinking this is that for the same pressure from the system, the sticker pad will "brake" the slipping wheel more than compared to the stock pads.

As for DTC settings; one press of the button for the track and full off for autoX.

 

Yeah, I've had the DTC option since they first started putting it on non-JCWs, but I was surprised that the display text was changed. I guess 'DTC' isn't very meaningful to most people, but just 'Traction' seems really vague. It seems to indicate you just turned on traction control, but that's obviously not the case.


I feel like the eLSD works well, too, both on the track and Auto-X, but I'm always interested to see what others think, too... especially since you've got a lot more power than my Cooper does. Thanks for the input!

 

Unless you're intending to compete for a national championship I recommend the CG-lock and your local street or road tire class with 195/50-15 Toyo R1R tires on the 7-hole stock wheels and sport suspension. That should be a bit faster than my setup which won the Sacramento Street Tire Class last year.

BTW, I beat the 5th place nationals finisher by 3.4 seconds on a 2.5 minute 5-lap course. It was all due to his Continental DW tires as he drove my Star Spec shod car later in the day and took a second off my time. His car had all of the allowed mods including the JCW suspension and autox alignment.

If you run R-comp autocross tires all of the equations change and my advice given in this post does not apply. And what works for a turbo charged MINI usually does not work for an HS MINI.

I strongly suspect the eLSD is not useful and slightly detrimental to a non-turbo MINI in autocrossing. I have it and it can not be turned off.

If left on, either DSC or DTC will interrupt your acceleration so badly you will not need to brake for corners.

MC time to 60 mph: 8.4 seconds
MCa time: 9.7 seconds

Keep it simple. Have fun.

 

You lost me here. Why would you want to turn off the eLSD????

No you can't turn off the eLSD, but that is the go-fast part of the DTC. The part you want turn off is the stability control (DSC) and that can be fully turned off.

 

With a AP Stage 1 JCW that I'm autocrossing the eLSD works well enough with the Goodyears I'm running now. They beginning spinning well before the eLSD is overcome. In a few weeks I will be running wider Toyo R1Rs and I'm curious to see how the eLSD does there. I know from talking to a few other DSP FWD drivers that the eLSD doesn't stand much of a chance with R-Comps and more power.
On the theoretical front, I wonder how the eLSD will function with overheated brakes. The crazy heat has my brake fluid boiling by the end of my runs.

 

Taz - What is the indication that your brake fluid has boiled? I have been told that your brake pedal goes to the floor and you have no brakes, and that this is caused by water absorption into the fluid. On the track this is a disaster. Good race brake fluid should take care of this and you should change it often so there is no water in it.

What brake fluid and what brake pads are you using? On my previous MINI I saw front rotor temps of ~1200 deg on track days and did not boiled the brake fluid. I was hoping overheated brakes would not be an issue with the eLSD when using race pads.

Just a guess, but given that you have a 2012 (the stock MINI brake fluid is really pretty good and reasonably high temp) and if you are using stock brake pads, then you may be just overheating the brake pads and what you are getting at the end of the session is brake fade not boiling fluid. I have had no problems in my autoX sessions using race pads and high temp fluid.

 

Brake went soft. Had to pump to get any braking. Still getting 'chattering peddle' when I really get on them and let off. Pedal feel is only back to 70%. It was 120+ on the pad and there were 2 drivers back to back so poor brakes didn't stand a chance.

Running stock fluid and pads still. Need to flush with some Motul this week when I do the wheel stud swap.

 

That is classic brake fade. The brake pads get overheated and no longer have any grip which makes them feel "soft". The stock pad will fade out with this kind of use. I had this happen on the track once. I am told that boiling fluid is foot to the floor, you have no brakes and pumping doesn't help.

While changing out the fluid is a good idea, you need to get a good race pad. I would recommend the Carbotech AX6 (a pad specific for autoX). These can also be used on the street. I use my track pads, Carbotech XP10. You could try the Hawk HP Plus (not the S, they will fade), although I have not used them for autoX, I do know they are much better than the stock pads and are less expensive than the Carbo's.

 

Taz - I took a quick look at your autoX blog...Wow,that is great. Glad to see you are having so much fun with it.

 

Eddie07s, thanks. It's a work in progress. My wife was tired of me babbling about racing so I found another outlet :-)
Now she hears about blogs!

 

"You lost me here. Why would you want to turn off the eLSD????"

Because it holds back the car coming out of a corner on a bumpy surface.

 

Has that been your experience?

Pardon my rambling but from my understanding the eLSD stops the inside front tire from spinning by applying the brake to that wheel. This puts power to the outside wheel where the power can be used. This allows you to exit a turn much faster than if you spin that inside wheel which is what will happen without the eLSD. The eLSD doesn't cut the power from my experience, but you must have the DSC turned off as that will cut the power.

I suppose a bumpy surface could confuse the system and apply the brake when it is not needed, but given our options - eLSD, an open differential or spend $1000s on a mechanical LSD - I'll take the eLSD. But, now that you have pointed out that possibility, I will take specific note as to whether this happens to me on the one particularly bumpy lot we run on.

 

FWIW when I turn off the DSC my car displays a picture of a car with "S" slipper tire marks behind it...

Well worth the visit to a REAL autoX event! Much longer track than the MINIcross sales event and very well organized. Saturdays practice session at old El Toro Marine Base in Lake Forest, CA had two Mini's there; both S's. They were running ~87's while some of the super fast track only cars were ~70's. Times seemed to range from ~70 to ~130 in some cases. Didn't get to take a ride, but definitly worth pursuing in the future.

Just a helmet and second set of rims and tires should get me started!

 

Also took a look at Taz's blog site. You are clearly additcted buddy! Wish I would of early so I could have DVR'd that July 20 autoX.

I did note that there was a camera crew at El Toro, but don't know if it was just a couple guys making a movie, local coverage or something more serious??? Watched them have a girl walk out of an outhouse toward the starting line of cars ***-a-swinging...

I guess hot girls and hot cars just go together like ice cream and apple pie.