I have been researching the issues with the Eaton (M45), Supercharger
as I run a 19% pulley and tend to spin the supercharger faster than most.
As I have noted the issues, of the various failures. bearings, the drainage
of oil and the destruction on gears in the rear (water pump), lost of rotor coating, etc.
As I researched this, I wonder why the oil was never changed,
and how it could last 100,000 miles (If I am remembering correctly, this is what I was told by the Mini dealer), Eaton recommendation to change every 25,000 miles, as does GM with there OEM supercharged cars.
If the oil was changed, would this extend the life, of the Super charger (like the engine and the regular oil changes) ?

I believe it would, On my quest, to find out "How to do this", I found that
there are two areas that the oil would need to be changed. The front Known as the PTO or the nose ( the area nearest the pulley), and the rear I call the "Water Pump" Gears.
The other thing, could this be done without having to remove the supercharger for the engine? As it is not a simple task.

I found that the front (PTO) could be done by removing the drain plug and extracting it, (small hose, and a large syringe tube). Some what of a pain.
But it could be done without removing it from the engine.
The rear "water pump" gears is not reachable, (without removing the super charger from the engine), so I thought. A company Imperial Mini, http://Imperialmini.com makes a hydraulic pipe and fittings, (kinda like the AC hose to extract, and recharge the freon), once the item is installed, you can change the oil "water pump" gears, with the out removing the supercharger.
I got to see this item, at MOTD 2012, and a demo. From Shaun Green. and mounted in a car, I now own one. (under $300 for the kit, for front and rear and super charger oil).

The oil that is extracted is black, smells bad and has (I believe metal in it)
from my 2003 R53 with 70K miles. My belief is that the metal causes the wear to other metal parts, gears, bearings, seals causing them to fail.
The smell is from the oil has gone beyond its life cycle (way beyond).
If I did my engine oil like this, I'm sure my car engine would not last.

I would recommend this as I sure, it's a Preventative Maintenance measure,
opposed to the other options:
a rebuild $800-$1800
a replacement (aftermarket Sprintex, Eaton TVS) $2900-$3600
A OEM MINI replacement (approx. $2900)
A Junk Yard ( $500-$2000) and a gamble, if it's good, how long?

This is before the labor to remove, and install cost.
Did a failed supercharger cause other engine failures, (over heating, warped head, cracked block and or head)?

Just something to keep in mind, thought I pass it on to others.
Regards

 

This looks pretty good, how long did it take to install ? and how difficult was it?

 

I find ir a bit disturbing that the only product they sell is to refil the oil on a 53/52 sc mini...and the picture of the mini they use IS NOT A MINI WITH A SUPERCHARGER!!
kinda funny in a perverse kinda way!!

 

Maybe theirwebsite is under construction, or does not work on an android phone...
But only the top pic and the top bar works
...none of the subpages come up...edit...got the site working...
Interesting idea...but if the sc must be removed to install the kit (a proactive measure), doesnt that defet the longevity/timesaving of the kit?! If you hear symptoms of low oil...remove it and refil/overhaul....the seals are bad, and it should be overhauled even if caught before dammage...just adding oil to a leaky seal/gears is kinda crazy....
In any eventualility, good luck to the people/individuals starting up this product, for some it will be a good thing....
But trust me, Fix the photo ...homepage photo...
Get a gen1 sc mini on it...not a gen 2 cooper!?
When you add non gen1 parts..change it, but your flagship item is for a gen1....

 

Just back from the MOTD 12,

The product is a maintenance item,(I believe it's called an MCS recharger (kinda odd name)) I believe the idea to try and extend the life of the super charger,
by changing the oil more often, (like an oil change for your car engine), it gives the ability to change the rear (water pump) oil after it's installed.
The front snout/pulley can be changed, while the supercharger is still in the engine, (without the kit), but not the back. (That is while mounted on the engine).
The oil I pulled out of front (snout \pulley side), and the rear (PTO\water pump side) was black and smelled like something died.
The oil is going to be analyzed for the composition, and it's condition, but I believe it will take a week or two. I plan on posting the info. after I get it.

My 03 MCS has 19% Pulley and 72K miles, History of Supercharger, 35K as a JCW superchager and JCW 11% pulley. 35K with 19% Pulley, 2K with 15% Pulley.
I did note that the coating on the rotors was peeling back, at the tips 1/2" back. from the rotors tips. but know noted unusual issue sounds or problems.
I will be posting some pics.
NightFlyR - How long? Well you'll have to remove the supercharger to remove 2.5 hours, drain the oil from the front, and than the rear about 3 hours 1.5 @ side letting the oil drain out by gravity, mount the "recharger". 2 hours to install the kit, and oil in both sides (front Snout/Pulley side and rear PTO/Water pump side). and test the MCS recharger kit. reinstall charger and front of car 2.5, .5 checking everything is working, no leaks, more or less about 10 hours total. however it could take more or less depending on your skills and knowledge. Not to difficult , but the MCS charger is a little tricky, and delicate when being mounted. Just need to take your time, and test it as you go. Hope that answers your questions.
ZippyNH - Disturbing about only product they sell. I believe they were doing services at MOTD 2012 changing Front (Snout/Pulley) pulley oil. About $40 or $50,
also sold used Mini Parts, and alot of time explaining how it works, design, purpose,
giving demos, and How to.
Website Under Construction - Well, I guess it needs some work, believe it's a new company.
I spent several hours, questioning, reviewing, and demo it, I believe in it, and bought one.
Will post a few pics later.
Regards

 

Good to see they changed the pic to sc'd MINI. Nice to see they are listening!!
About a full days labour estimated above seems about right...add a few assorted gaskets too. With the amount of labour involved, it might make sense for a diy'er to do it, but with typical shoprates, the only time it might make sense for a shop to install this might be with a SC swap after a failure....but wonder if doing so might void the warrenty ot make the sc be not acceptable as a core?
Any info on how it is connected? Does it involve any drilling and tapping of the body of the SC?

 

It's a full day of labor, maybe less, as I addressed other issues while I had the front end off. and did some cleaning.
I believe they ( Imperial Mini) also offer the full install service, something like $500 to $700, and could address the other possible issues if found. They mentioned that they could come to a location, club, etc... if there were four or more, and $100 off for a a fully install referral. (I believe it was something like that).
The Warranty, good question, I believe most 02-06 MCS are out of warranty, some might have a third party extended warranty, I would not think it would void the warranty, as it makes things serviceable. unless the tube was the point of failure,
which I would find highly unlikely, it a stainless steel tube with an assortment of fittings and valves, looks simple , but the engineering is slightly complex, it creates
the use of hydraulics and negative vacuum, to exact the oil out, and then to install a measured amount.
No Drilling, it replaces the drain/fill plug, looks like a factory tube. (a simple bolt on)
the install and testing of it, is the tricky part, as everything has to be just right,
while the supercharger is out, it's easy to do the testing. before installing it back on the engine.
If you have no supercharger issues, I believe it would be good to install to extend life (as in engine oil changes), if supercharger has issues install on the replacement unit, to get the most out of it.
I believe the race cars with superchargers will replace at 5K, as they are using it
under heavy use.
Working on scale the pics, but too small to see, I may post to a link as it's hard to see, still working on it (posting pics).

 

Just want to chime in on one great little car...

I have a 2005 MCS which is driven about 1500 - 2000 miles per month. Prior to buying the car out on the used market I read quite a few horror stories ranging from spark plugs spontaneously ejecting from the engine, electrical fires burning Coopers to the ground, failed steering racks, failed transmissions and failing supercharges

OK ... So for the first few weeks of ownership I expected to come out and find vultures circling around a smoking crater where my Mini was once parked. Despite all the horror stories I've read about the little car my odometer now reads 93,000 miles and the Mini O checks out AOK.

That said, my question related to the MCS Supercharger... Can we please define "high mileage Mini Cooper" and provide some mechanical stats (Mini Techs) on this subject?

I'm pretty certain my car lived in a bubble and was treated to BMW service, 3 rounds of OE Dunlop DSST tires, and OE parts. I guess what I am saying here is if your car is driven like a race machine then it should serviced like a race machine which costs money.

I don't think you can drive your Mini to work everyday and then run it at weekend rally unless you have a pit crew...just two cents from a guy that has turned wrenches since 1987.

My personal opinion on changing supercharger oil on a "high mileage" vehicle ... I don't have an opinion. I go by manufacturers engineering specs and recommendations. These guys get paid big money to figure it out for us.

Eaton states their supercharges are designed to "last the lifetime of your vehicle" ... Define "Lifetime". We can't. Lifetime is variable and determined by environment, driving style and maintenance from day one.

The rear chamber of the M45 holds a bit more than 6 fluid ounces... not a whole lot of fluid to worry about. If its contaminated or leaked out it's too late.

Here is a direct quote from Eaton: The sealed oil reservoir in a supercharger is designed to last the life of the vehicle. Changing the oil is not recommended unless you suspect contamination, leakage, or other issues like bearing failure. Also, if your vehicle has an abnormally heavy duty cycle, such as racing or towing, you could consider changing the oil at regular intervals such as 20k, 30k, 50k, or 100k miles depending on usage.

My thoughts here .. If I drained contaminated oil from my 50,000 supercharger I would not replace the oil, I would replace the supercharger.

If it makes you feel better and you enjoy taking your Mini apart then by all means have at it, but I don't think it's necessary. BMW did a tremendous job with the design of this car and if something fails its OK. New parts break just like old parts. I've witnessed big dollar race engines grenade at the line and Dad's 200,000 mile Impala smoke a brand new Corvette. Change your fluids from day one, cut service intervals in half if you're a hammer head and when parts are worn throw them away and install new one's.

Hope I haven't offended anyone and I hope my yammering helps you!

 

Do you have pictures of it installed? If the fittings are mounted on, how do you verify that you have enough in? Is it by just measuring how much you put in as opposed to the fill till it overflows method?

 

Lifetime simply means the length of the factory warranty. After that, it's your $ and MINI is more than happy to take it. Auto manufacturers throw around that word a lot these days to give the impression of low maintenance. The only way to really know is to send in a sample of used oil for analysis.

6 ounces is the front. The weakness of the M45 S/C is the back-end where its capacity is ~2 ounces... plus the design of the coolant pump and how it's connected to the S/C is an after-thought.

 

Supercharger oil smells terrible even when new. From working with several friends who've changed their S-charger oil, it seems like there is a binomial distribution: Either the supercharger is fine and the oil is a nice amber color, so you shouldn't have changed it and it'll go 120k+ miles (two people there), or it's a mess and the s-charger is messed up afer 50-70kmiles.

Changed mine with a good Mini friend, took 10+ hours but we also fixed two vacuum leaks (check that hose on the passenger side just under the wiring harness, it rubs and leaks), and we installed a boost gauge and pulley while we had 'er out. VERY worth it, as we also got at the parts of the engine that don't see daylight all that often and I now have seen that they're OK.

NOTE: When you've got it out you have to use anaerobic sealant to seal it back up again - which means cleaning the gears and mating surfaces THOROUGHLY (we used acetone and a lint-free cloth, er, umm, "paper towel", with nitrile gloves (acetone goes right through latex) and being VERY careful since that stuff's flammable. Take your time, do ti right, since you'll only do this once every 70k or so.

And if the s-charger's messed up, plan on new.

Good luck!

 

I know I am on borrowed time with mine, as I have 110K on it. No noise from it,but its time is coming. I was thinking of installing this kit when I have it done, but looking at it from the standpoint of getting 110K plus out of the unit I have now, and getting a rebuilt from Helix and letting them do the install will be just as cost effective.

 

I have 121,000 on mine and no problems yet. I'm confused whether I should be worried or not. This is almost like the R53 vs. R56 debate. 10hrs is a lot of time to put in on a project. I will watch and read up on this for awhile before I try something this big.

 

Tearing down the front end is really not as difficult as it sounds - no extra special tools required. It's a very straight forward process of peeling parts off the car until you get to the supercharger. It doesn't have to take 10 hours. If I speed things up, I can get to the supercharger in 2 hours or less. There's a lot of stuff to remove but if you stay organized and neat, you won't become overwhelmed by it all.

 

Good point, Evasive, but getting at the S-charger requires emptying the cooling system, and while you've got the front end off it's best to check/replace/maintain anything you find in there - so the inspections can take some time, as does allowing the anaerobic sealant some time to set up (not a bad idea), and having lunch with friends while tearing the car apart/putting together. It's not a minor job, and I like yoru description of "a very straight forward process of peeling parts off the car until you get to the supercharger"...

 

I completely agree with you. That's why I said "it doesn't have to" take 10 hours but if you're very thorough, and it sounds like you are, it can become lengthy. I tend to subscribe to your approach more, rather than rushing, but I have the luxury of leaving my car on jack stands for days, even weeks, as it is just a weekend toy for me. The only motivation to rush a project for me is to get behind the wheel and play

One can look at the supercharger project from the perspective of; is it difficult to replace your intercooler? Is it difficult to change your intake? Is it difficult to remove your radiator? The answer to most of these questions separately for any DIYer is no. It's relatively simple to do each one and doing the supercharger fluid is really just doing these small projects all at once. The bottom line is, one should not get too intimidated.

One thing I've learned throughout the years, which I think is worth emphasizing is organization. Invest a little time keeping things together. 90% of the bolts I take off to remove a part goes back to the stud from which it came from. The other 10% sits in a zip lock bag next to the parts I removed. After using a tool, try and put it back in your designated spot instead of mixing it with everything else. Most of my frustration when working on projects come from not being able to find the tools or parts I need. Also, when you're stuck at something, learn to walk away from it and relax for a bit. Grab a bite to eat...water your lawn...whatever.

I started working on my car 2 days ago and really have been taking my time. Mainly because the parts are still in transit. Below is an idea of what my tool box looks like at any given time and what my car looks like at the moment.

 

If you have 100,000+ miles on a sc, removing it just to lube it, then reinstalling it might keep it running a bit longer, but imo most drivers who drive an S drive it for performance....so for about $500-900, a rebulit sc can be had, that has new seals, and that has been checked over/rebuilt. Different places do different levels of rebuilding, but if you are a performance driver, you must keep in mind a SC is a WEAR ITEM....as the vanes wear, boost and effecency will be lost, and as the OP said, other things might be happening.....like the coating failing and getting injested....one must consider than many aftermarket places offer to "coat" the sc rotors and vanes, but this aftermarket product is more of a teflon paint than the insulative ablative coating on the jcw, and 2005+ mini's that serve to improve the effenceny of the sc, and insulate the charge from the hot temps of the metal (most of the heat comes from the sheer act of compressing the air, but a few % here and there added up enough to get a few extra hp's out of these later cars).

 

Looks like Evasive is getting ready for a clutch job. Neat garage!

Under California Emission Warranty law, the S/C in my '06 is covered for 7yrs/70k... or 1 more year in my case. Upon expiration, I will switch the factory issue S/C with a spare (with a 15% pulley).

 

AMEN, brother, amen!

Nice garage, by the way. Just an "add", we certainly realize that many, many folks use the Mini as their DD or only transportation, so budgeting 10 hours and only using 5-6 is preferable to "trying to fix the darned car at midnight on Sunday so I can drive to work Monday morning".

Note that you're doing this once every 60-100kmiles, so do it correctly and don't chimp on the parts and tasks involved!

Note that there are a couple of "special" things (tools and such) you'll want on-hand for a s-charger refill:
- belt tensioner and "tensioner stop tool" (most folks use a "large nail" or small screwdriver for the tensioner stop)
- pulley puller and replacement pulley if you're taking the 'defective' factory pulley off and replacing it with the correct one (the "defect" is that they put on a pulley 15% too large!)
- There are various o-rings and seals you'll want to replace (there's another thread with which ones to change). Total = < $30
- If you haven't had the thermostat replaced, get a new one FROM MINI (so it's the new gasket style) and replace it. The new style has a softer gasket material and is less prone to leakage. If you buy one from an online retailer there's no guarantee you'll get the new style - don't ask how I know (but if you want an older style I'll ship it to you for $15 shipped!). $30ish.
- Get the GM supercharger oil from the local Chevy dealer, costs about $30 for 2 bottles and you'll need both. It smells really bad, and it smells WORSE when you drain the old stuff. Do NOT do this job in a spare bedroom. Do NOT get this on anything you want to keep. Phew.
- Anaerobic sealant isn't something you usually have around, neither is acetone, but you'll want to clean with the acetone and seal with the anaerobic sealant.
- If you're >100kmiles, consider doing the waterpump while you're in there, since it drives off the back end of the S-charger.
- Check all vacuum lines, replace as necessary, consider putting a "sleeve" on the ones that rub, and there are a couple that do (one in particular on the passenger side just under the supercharger "horn" that rubs a wiring harness, I had a nearly 1/4" hole in a 1/4" OD line!)
- NOW is the time to install a boost gauge if you have one, as long as it's all apart...

Hope that helps...

 

Talk about a dumb idea!

 

I am one of those very **** people when it comes to being organized, eveything has to be in its place and done correctly so for me this would be a 10 plus hour job, when i was younger i would have no issue doing this type of job, I actually remember driving up to Boston when i was in my early 20s, picking up an engine for a BWM 2002 TII driving back, installing it and then driving to virginia beach with no sleep. But as work, age, kids ( who are not kids as they are in there 20s now) and basically life have moved on, and me being in my mid 40s now, I think the car will just go to Helix and I will spend a couple of grand, get the supercharger done, and the clutch, and stay home and have a few cold ones ,but that is just me and my stage of life, I give you guys all the credit for taking on projects like this.!!!

 

Pictures

 

Umm, yeah, I do know this guy who tried that once...

I'm jealous of the garage spaces I see here, mine's a typical Pittsburgh garage, 1.95 car capacity, unsealed concrete floor and poor lighting.

That. Will. Change.

 

Cool kit! When I did mine a while back I was toying with how to access and change the oil. That system should work great.

I am at 170000 miles now on the OEM supercharger with one oil change around 160000 and I do drive the car relatively hard.

So far so good!!

 

When I was living with my parents as a kid, I rebuilt a flathead Ford V8 in my bedroom. 'Use to sit on the block and grind the valves by hand while watching TV. Then, after I got out of the service, I rebuilt a Porsche motor for my VW bus in my bedroom. Of course, once I got married......