I did my first DE event this weekend. What great fun, I drove faster and harder than I ever have. One problem...No brakes left. My observations And a few questions.

FYI, My car is 04 MCS with 2500 miles (two thousnd five hundred)

1. Front pads, down to about 3/16" all cracked in half and as hard as metal.
2. Front rotors very rough and groved, from looking at them you would think there was no pad surface left.
3. Front pad wear sensor self destructed when taking pads off. It never went off when driving.
4. Rear pads, inboard pads on both sides completly worn down to metal backing plates and plates are warped. Rubber piston boot on drivers side melted off. Outboard pads worn to about 1/16" and cracked.
5. Rear rotors very rough inboard both sides, and outboard side just a little rough.

Obviously I ordered new pads (Carbotech XP8)

Are my observations typical? Should I be able to just turn down the rotors? Are the rubber boots on the rear pistons replacable? Should I replace the pad sensors (I know they probably won't fit on new pads) Whats the deal on having to turn the piston on the rear brakes when retracting piston. Some people comment that the pistons screws in and out..How can that be? (I have caliper retracting tool on order and plenty of C type clamps in DA HOUSE).

Any other brake tips. Thanks to all those that have written how toos.

 

Just think you could have driven faster and harder if you didn't use the brakes so much!

Steve

 

Definatly sounds like you were a little hard on your brakes. I still have the factory pads in my car ( 4000 miles ) and I have been on th etrack 4 times with them and there is still pad left and the rotors are smooth like they should be. I am running bigger rotors but calipers and pads are the factory stuff.

Lighten up on the brakes a bit.

 

rubber boot may be replaceable, if a rebuild kit is available, otherwise, no. Rear piston is threaded inside, for the park brake, that's why it has to be rotated while being pressed back. Replace the rotors, they sound shot. replace the sensors, if they dont fit into the pads, zip-tie them off to the side somewhere, or you'll be looking at the brake replacement light forever.

I would suggest a brake upgrade. If you are that hard on the brakes at the track, and anticipate going again, it will be well worth the investment.

 

Thanks for the info. I don't want to put a big brake kit on the car as of yet.

 

I also don't understand how you could've trashed your brakes in one track day. I've done several events on the stock brake system and numerous events with upgraded lines, performance pads, and Super Blue fluid. I am now considering a more aggresive pad than the Ferodo DS2500s that I've been using.

Anyway, the rubber caliper piston boots can be replaced, I've done my fronts already twice this season and need to do the rears.

Let us know what you do and how you make out at your next event. BTW, on which track were you driving?

 

I drove on Gingerman, in Michigan.

 

My god I have never heard of such use (abuse?) of brakes! You must have had a 1/8" layer of dust on your wheels, and the rotors must have been glowing! What were you doing, just putting the petal to the floor everytime?

 

It's not uncommon for track novices to use a lot of brake, and that's what this sounds like to me. When I first began to do track events, I had some wear issues that I spoke to my mechanic about. Being both a master mechanic and a club racer, his advice was not to use so much brake. I thought he was being glib, but as I did more schools I did learn to get around without being so hard on the brakes. The truth is that the car will often go around a corner much faster than a novice realizes or feels comfortable attempting. As the skill level increases the corner speeds increase and the wear & tear on the brakes decreases.

So put it all back together and go back to the track. And this time consider doing a little less braking and carrying a bit more speed into the corner. It's all part of the process. Have fun.

 

What you did sounds totally normal to me considering you were using stock pads and assuming you were driving hard (e.g., going deep into corners, braking late and hard). I think it's very true that accomplished track drivers will have the ability to drive the track using as little brake as possible, but if you're running hard you're gonna run though pads fairly quickly at the track no matter what.

I would definitely get new rotors rather than turn the old ones. Stock rotors are pretty cheap (only about $65 each for the fronts). and next time check your pads after each track session to make sure you don't run them down so far.

As Tontobird said, the rubber piston boots are easily replaceable. You will need to turn and push to retract the rear pistons. Some swear that a big C clamp works like a charm, but I use a rear brake tool I got from HarborFreight for about $20.

 

Gingerman? I get the rotors glowing almost every time I run there!

They do call it "threshold braking" for a reason.

Its all about squeeze application (not poke) of the maxiumum availble brake force limited buy available adhesion to the track surface.

Alex

 

I went with a stage 1 brake kit from Webb Motor Sports, slotted rotors and pads, and not a big brake kit to save the money and have had NO problems. Yeah they smell sometimes on the back roads but that's what it's all about.

Earl

 

I found that the rubber caliper bushing allowed for a lot of delection, and the pads get chewed up fast, fade can be an issue (you're basically running with less pad area due to uneven force distribution). The fix is cheap and easy...
Look at this link for more information. I think Helix carries them as well. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...php?product=74

Very cheap (~$120) for the benefit! make your rotors and pads last longer too!

 

Hey...Gingerman is in our neck of the woods:smile: Are you in our Michiganmini group?

 

I tried to get rear caliper piston rubber boots from my dealer. They said they are not avaliable seperate (appear glued on) from parts dept/MINI. Am I ok running without these rubber boots intact? If not any way to find a spare or do I need to source new/used rear calipers? If I replace boots whats to keep them from melting again? ( I know, don't run out of rear brake pads!).

MSFITOY,I am not member of the Michiganmini group. I am from Chicago area.

 

You can try getting the boots from Classic MINI - one of the sponsors of this site and generally more helpful than local dealers.

I think you can run safely with damaged boots, I just wouldn't do it for too long (e.g. weeks or months) because dirt or something else may eventually get up in there and damage the piston. (Keep in mind though, that I am not a mechanic).

 

first of all take your car back to the dealer and let them replace your pads, rotors and boots. i've had many sets on my car factory replaced. and yes they know what i do to my car. i bring them dvd's of my most recent events and we'll watch them on the flat pannel in the show room. be sure to have your stock pads on.

i used to use the xp10's in the front and XP8's in the back.

 

boot failure WILL cause caliper failure, it's just a matter of time. the boots are there to keep contaminants out of the machined areas of the caliper bore, primarily water-because of rust. ask dealer about a rebuild kit for the caliper, should have new boots...unless it doesn't exist. if the boots are a "lip-in" type , they are going to be EXTREMELY difficult to replace.
as far as not melting the boots again, you have the only solution I know of that will work, consistently.

 

When you are ordering your brake pads, order 2 sets. It is always a good idea to have a spare set if you are going to a HPDE. I would also suggest keeping your old rotors just in case something happens at the track and you need them. Just make sure you bring enough tools with you to swap out the pads/rotors at the track. What about going to a more agressive pad for track days only? Pads aren't that hard to change out, it may be a good idea for you...

 

time to use the warrenty (free brakes)