After decades of dutifully rotating tires whenever the car design allowed it (ie, whenever the fronts and rears were the same size), I've come to the conclusion that it makes more sense not to, in the case of the MINI!

Here's why...

Contrary to popular belief, safety experts say the best tires should always be installed at the rear, not the front. This even applies to front wheel drive cars. Whenever you rotate tires on a MINI, by definition you are putting the more worn tires (ie, the driven tires from the front) at the rear.

It makes more sense to let the fronts just wear out before the rears. That way the rear tires are always the best tires. When it comes time to replace the fronts, those new tires should be installed at the rear. That's the only time it makes sense to rotate them!

This approach also has the advantage of only having to purchase two tires each time.

What do you think?

 

Why rotate at all? The MINI
wear pattern would be opposite
from front to rear. I never rotate
on any cars and that still makes it
a two tire buy.

 

I don't rotate personally, and the only problem I've had with this plan is if you want to switch to a different tire, and care if all 4 tires match.

 

911 fan-that's a good idea. :smile:

but I usually rotate to use the good tires up front because my rears
have plenty neg camber and swaybar not stiff enough to cause
tailhappy galore (?) on the streets in dry weather.

 

With the MINI I have also begun not rotating this time around.

2 New Yokohama ES100's waiting to be mounted here

 

I just took my car in for an oil change at 12900 miles. The front tires (run flats) were shot.

My service advisor says I need to replace at least the 2 fronts (I didn't rotate them) and was told I need to rotate them every 5K miles. My dad always told me not to rotate for the same reasons given above, and my other cars didn't need rotating...

Anyway, I see that there is still disagreement on this subject.

I was thinking of replacing the run flats with 'standard' tires...so that means I will have 2 great tires left (run flats). Are they worth selling? Maybe some of you that are keeping the run flats may be interested? Or should I just hold on to them for 'someday' to come?

Geez these tires are expensive. Looks like the least I will have to spend is $140/each.

I will be following this thread to get some new ideas!

 

I personally prefer rotating so I could change all 4 at once.
there are too many tires to give it a try!

 

Exactly. When these are gone (runflats) going to something different. Not rotating extends the time and $$ in these tires.

Paul

 

>disagreement


No, no disagreement, just different approach. :smile:

 

Here is some food for thought. By 19,000 my OEM runflats were bald (never rotated), but my rears had atleast 75% life left. I dumped all for in favor of trying Yokohama AVS-ES100s. I've now gone 14,000 miles on them with rotations every 3,000 miles, and my front and back are evenly worn. I think I can do another 14,000 - 20,000 miles on them before getting a new set.

My point is this. My buddy Cafemoc, is STILL on his OEM runflats which have been rotated. He's got 38,000 miles and feels he's got enough life to go to atleast 54,000 miles.

Personally, I couldn't stand keeping my runflats for so many miles, but apparently if you drive moderately, and rotate them, you can really stretch the life out of them.

I think it all depends on how you drive, and what your comfort tolerance is!

 

I'm pretty fanatical about rotating my tires every 5000 miles in the hope that all of the tires will remain equally good. If they wear evenly, I won't have to worry about which end has the inferior tires.

 

Contrary to popular belief, safety experts say the best tires should always be installed at the rear, not the front. This even applies to front wheel drive cars. Whenever you rotate tires on a MINI, by definition you are putting the more worn tires (ie, the driven tires from the front) at the rear.



What "Safety expert" would you be taking about? Sounds a little bogus to me. The "best" tires should ALWAYS be on the front. They are the ones doing 75% of the work.

 

That reminds me of my approach to exercise - why bother when I can reach my target heart rate with coffee?

 

I agree with the best tire in the back. I had an integra with worn tires in the back and new tires in the front (I was waiting till next paycheck to get two more tires) and sure enought I spun into a tree and totalled the car. I am 100% sure it was because the rear tires were worn. For the record they were worn, not bald. The guy at the tire place said they had about 75% safe wear, so there was about 25% life left in them.

 

I rotate my tires every 5000 miles,all four tires look the same,and because most of my driving is flat prairie,100 miles a day,I plan on doing this till all 4 need changing.

 

There is new info out that when your replace tires you should put the new tires on the rear and the worn tires on the front. The idea being that since the rear of front wheel drive cars are so light that heavily worn tires will cause spins.

The way I read this report was that you should rotate the tires regularly but when it comes time to replace tires and you replace just two tires to put the new ones on the back and leave the older ones on the front.

 

I think some people have missed the simplicity and, dare I say, elegance of my system!

You never rotate the tires in the traditional sense. You simply drive til the fronts wear out (and the fronts always wear out first in FWD cars, for obvious reasons). Then you replace the 2 fronts but those 2 new tires are installed at the back and the former rear tires now get to ride in front. You continue this regimen until you get sick of the car and get rid of it!

So you always have the best tires in the back. Plus you get the absolute most wear out of each pair of tires. Plus you only have to buy 2 tires at a time. Plus you can skip all the trips to the tire store to get them rotated every 5K miles.

It really doesn't get any better than that!

(btw, in checking with some tire stores, there appears to be no problem in mixing 2 runflats with 2 non-runflats while the second pair of original runflats finally wears out...)

 

As I said, it's contrary to popular belief! (Like you, I used to hold this popular belief too -- that the best tires should always go on the driven wheels.)

I first learned about this heretic idea from an article in a car mag written by some tire company (Michelin?). They performed lots of tests at their test track to prove the best-tires-always-belong-at-the-rear theory.

Maybe the TireRack guy will also confirm this...

 

All the major tire mfgs. now say that if replacing only two tires at a time then they should be placed at the rear of the vehicle. Yes, Michelin in particular did extensive testing and there was a write-up in one of the popular car mags, can't recall which one though Concerning the rotating of tires, do it however you like, most people don't remember to rotate their tires anyway, for that matter how many people (regular, ordinary, non-compulsive about their Mini type people) remember to ck. the air pressure in their tires at least once a month? Air pressure is a huge factor in all areas of a tires performance and hardly anyone takes two minutes a month to ck. them.
Sorry, ranting a bit, but do consider that if you never rotate your tires, you will (in most every case) have unusual tire wear due to the different ways your cars' suspension is set up. Cupping is the biggest culprit and when you put a cupped tire on the front, you'll feel like you're driving that old Chevy pickup w/ the mudders on it that you always see (and hear) driving around.

Later

 

Cool! That may be my best option. I usually order from Tire Rack...maybe I should double check with them first...but that just may work!

THANKS!

 

Let me first say - I am not normal. Now that we've got that cleared up. . .I autocross twice a month, meaning I check my tire pressures as least twice a month and also means I am removing the wheels at least once a month (I run Hoosiers w/SCCA and Azenis with a local club that does not allow R tires in stock classes). Therefore, I rotate my tires once a month! I adhere to the regular rotation theory (though pre-autocrossing I rotated every 5,000 miles, not every 200). By regularly rotating, all the tires wear evenly and last much longer than just leaving them where they are. I usually get at least 40,000 miles out of a set of tires - but again, this is all pre-Mini, pre-autocrossing.

Just my $0.015.

 

FWIW, much of the manufacturer's (tire and car) recommendations on the best tires on the rear is a CYA issue. As BDMini pointed out, most people don't rotate or even check pressures. If you have a failure on the rear the response of any car will be oversteer. This is inherently more dangerous for your average cell-phone talking, latte sipping, SUV driving moron and they tend to overcorrect sending them into an accident, which, of course, was not their fault! Had to be those tires! (Remember Ford Explorer and Firestone).

Most of us on this forum don't have much to worry regarding tire wear differences. We are probably being fairly attentive to the maintenance and, hopefully, not too distracted with things other than clipping apexes!

Dave
Raniting in San Diego
2003 DS/B MCS 15%

 

be kinda funny if you put brand new S03's on just the rear 'as
recommend' and spin out into a ditch.

Those S03's are incredibly slippery with the release oil when brand new.

 

911Fan,

Interesting theory. Probably would work OK, especially if you drove alot.

Alex@tirerack.com would say "always" put the newer better tires on the rears. Why? Because in the event of hydroplaning you want the best hydroplane resistant tires on the rear as they follow the fronts which hydroplane less as you steer through the water. This allows the most safety for wet conditions. For dry conditions it isn't as critical unless the amount of wear between fronts and rears is drastically different.

I always put the better tires on the rears. Also it's OK to mix non runflats with runflats as long as you put the same type of tires on the same axle. So buying two at a time is fine.

Some other considerations:
Over time the rubber in tires gets hard so if you have some tires that are fairly old but not very worn they will not perform as well as fresh tires. This is particularly important for those that don't drive that many miles per year. Old tires will crack and may be noisy as they wear or age.

Shipping is expensive for me. Shipping four tires from tirerack.com is pretty cheap, shipping two might be OK but not as good value for two than four or I might pay less this year and a higher price next year for the same tires.

If I buy four tires from costco (I order them) I can get free rotation and balancing as needed on the full set but if I buy two I only get rotation or balancing on the ones I bought from costco.

Unless I get a blow out or cord a tire I always buy four. This might mean getting a new set when not all of the four tires are worn out. Many of the sets I buy are directional tires where the tires on the right only can be rotated front to rear. I'm happy to wear them out ASAP so I can try another set. Another way to have fun is to get a bunch of stock rims and put different sets of tires on the rims. Now you can mix and match fronts and rears to your liking. This actually can work especially on rainy days at the track or autocross.

 

Had a teenage girl come in w/ her '96 Grand Am this a.m. and she had just had the rear of her car spin around on her. Her parents were w/ her and she was obviously shaken. The left rear wheel had what looked to be about 20 degrees of positive camber on it. After putting the car on the rack, we found the rear "axle" was bent severely, fortunately that's all that was bent. But, lo and behold what did we see, but two newer tires on the front of the vehicle and rear tires that were 6+ years old on the rear and at 3-4/32" of tread remaining. Yes it was raining, and yes she is an inexperienced driver, but it's a good example of why you ultimately want all the tires on your baby (or your baby's ride) to be in tip-top shape, keeping in mind that the tires are the only point of contact your car has w/ the road.
DON'T SKIMP ON YOUR TIRES!!!

Later