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I have read in other posts that after a Brembo "upgrade" the pedal travel was different. Yes I can say it is, not as stiff as with the single piston units and I bled them again after I took it for a short run. I think one thread the guy said they felt like an older car with no booster. Now the question is does more travel and the "feel" affect the overall ability of the system to stop? I have not pushed mine at all yet as the pads have not bedded but the thing will stop. I have also asked a friend that changed to the JCW Brembo Kit what he peddle was like after the change.
Same here, I have a lot more pedal travel after changing to the JCW Brembos. I miss the really firm pedal with the base R56 brakes, it made heel and toe really easy. Much trickier with the Brembos because of so much more pedal travel. I'm thinking about changing to the GP2 master cylinder which pushes higher volume.
On the EBC Yellows, they say they are for both street and track but from posts for guys that track I seem to recall that all the comments were not positive. MrBlah has told me that the yellows once over 1/2 worn are garbage and once you get them really hot you have to really push the pedal.
They worked great for my first two track days but that last one - definitely overheated them. I will be getting dedicated track pads, no more of this "street/track" stuff.
WNW asked for my comments on pad life. I get very long pad life in my daily driving since my commute is mainly highway on cruise control. Track is a different story.
My first track days were with the standard R56 brakes. I had changed to SS brake lines, bled with Motul RBF600, and swapped in EBC yellow pads. The brakes were great, no issues. I decided I needed to upgrade to the JCW Brembos, while I was at it I installed the Sneed stainless piston kit, there's a thread about it. On my first track day with the new JCW brakes I also used EBC yellows. My son was with me running in A group and I was in B, the group rotation was B-D-A-C so the brakes had about 20 minutes of cool down time alternating with 20 minutes of track time. By the end of the day the pads were about 1/2 gone and were totally cooked, the brakes barely worked. I drove home very carefully and swapped the stock pads back in. That's what got me started on my long running project to build some brake cooling ducts, I have a thread about that over in the R56 forum.
I'm planning on another track day in August, so I need to decide on a new pad. I have seen a lot of recommendations for Carbotech XP10 front, XP8 rear so I have been considering those. Carbotech also has the 1521 street pad, I was at the point where I needed new pads and front rotors so I installed the 1521s with Centric rotors. I'm really unhappy with the 1521s, not a whole lot of stopping power though a lot less dust than the stock Brembo pads. I guess I need a new street pad as well.
Originally Posted by Whine not Walnuts
On the EBC Yellows, they say they are for both street and track but from posts for guys that track I seem to recall that all the comments were not positive. MrBlah has told me that the yellows once over 1/2 worn are garbage and once you get them really hot you have to really push the pedal.
Originally Posted by squawSkiBum
They worked great for my first two track days but that last one - definitely overheated them. I will be getting dedicated track pads, no more of this "street/track" stuff.
I had back to back, same day experience with the EBC Yellow and the Carbotech XP10. I had used the Carbotechs before, but had gotten the Yellows based on all the reported track successes I had read about and was looking to reduce costs. Well, I found that you don’t get something for nothing. The Yellows were very non-linear in comparison. Going into a corner, they had little initial bite and then that would increase with heat, making heal and toe and trail braking very difficult. The Carbotechs provided a much more linear response to brake pedal pressure, making heal and toe as well as trail braking much easier. The Carbotechs also had much higher overall coefficient of friction, making them easier to apply with less force. Can’t say anything about wear comparison, as I only had the Yellows in for 2 sessions the one time I tried them. I have used the XP10s in both the stock calipers and the Wilwoods with great success, performance wise.
Based on my experience I would say that the XP10s are a great pad for anyone headed out on the track, beginner to an advanced driver. These are a true race pad, with high heat tolerance, but also really good low temperature performance. With the low temp performance I very comfortable driving with them on the street (as in: to and from the track). That said, an advanced driver may want to consider the XP12s. I say this based on comments from fellow MINI driver who was a high level advanced driver with experience with both the XP10s and the XP12s, and preferred the XP12s.
As for other pads that might fit the Brembos, I can only speak to the Hawk DTC60s and would say that rotor wear will be much greater with those compared to the Carbotechs.
I also agree, the Carbotech 1521s are not a very good pad, even for the street.
Originally Posted by Whine not Walnuts
With more digging it appears the Cobalt pistons are steel and not ceramic/composite as the JCW appear to be.
Steel pistons will be almost as bad as aluminum for transferring heat to the brake fluid in the caliper in comparison to having SS piston. Just be aware of this when canyon carving.
And while on stainless steel, many think that a magnet will not stick to/attract stainless steel. Sorry that is not correct as different types of stainless has various amounts of steel. The thermal conductivity of stainless can vary from 14 to around 45 (K factor) while higher grade carbon steel can be at 36.
So the question is, how much steel is in the stainless steel pistons??????????
There are many different types of stainless steel, whether they are magnetic or not depends on the crystal structure. 304 and 316 are austenitic and non-magnetic. It is important to be using the right grade for the application so you have the right properties - corrosion resistance, ductility, weldability, etc.
I have been over on the IB Cobalt Forum and from there have hooked up with Crate Engines that has allot of aftermarket GM parts. The piston kit that Crate sells is a Brembo kit and some guys on the Cobalt side they are aluminum. Centric also makes a 38mm piston and you can find them for under $5.00 plus freight.
The Crate guy told me the Cobalt boots are getting hard to find but I told him about the JCW Brembo that you would think has a similar boot as there is a 38mm piston. The Centric 38mm piston fits the Cobalt, Camaro, Cadillac, Corvette, Alfa, Nissan, Volvo and Ferrari.
For $5.00, if I was looking at a rebuild, I would buy the Centric and see if it works.
Last edited by Whine not Walnuts; 07-01-2018 at 03:15 PM.
I have sent an email off to Centric on whether they have a 38 x 26 mm piston. As they make one for the Cobalt Brembo one would think they have the ability to meet the Brembo tolerances. They list pistons for non Brembo MINIs.
1.) The Centric email was no good nothing went through relative to an alternative stainless steel piston for the MINI Brembo unit. From the Cobalt guys I have been talking with the aluminum piston has not been an issue for them relative to transferring heat to the fluid. There are guys there with 400 HP track cars.
2.) I did not like the idea of six or seven small shim washers pushing the caliper out as IMO it could rake as the surface contact of the shims was so small. I took a larger washer and then used either one or two 0.5 mm shims to place the caliper. I took the calipers off after I had some miles put on to see how things were holding up. I had threadlocker on so I did heat the area to soften and then pulled the caliper off. What I found was was that the steel threaded insert that Brembo puts into the aluminum caliper is not flush on the knuckle side, it is about 0.5 mm shy of being flush. This 0.5 mm dimension in conjunction with an 85 ft lb torque value that GM states deformed the larger washer. I have now placed a shim between the end of the steel insert and the larger shim the outsets the caliper. The drawing below reflects what I did.
1.) The Centric email was no good nothing went through relative to an alternative stainless steel piston for the MINI Brembo unit. From the Cobalt guys I have been talking with the aluminum piston has not been an issue for them relative to transferring heat to the fluid. There are guys there with 400 HP track cars.
Be careful about making this conclusion as you don’t know what kind of cooling these 400 hp track cars have going to the brakes and calipers. That could be why they don’t have a problem.
Be careful about making this conclusion as you don’t know what kind of cooling these 400 hp track cars have going to the brakes and calipers. That could be why they don’t have a problem.
They have issues with the heat burning up the seals along with the paint on the calipers. Would think things got pretty hot down there but they had no complaints of boiling brake fluid.
I parked next to a cobolt SS at the last TT I did down at cmp, he boiled his fluid repeatedly he had to switch to doing a few hard laps then slowing down
he was a novice so he was probably braking way too early & long, and had no extra cooling just the stock setup
when can I come over and test fit a 15x8 949racing wheel?
I parked next to a cobolt SS at the last TT I did down at cmp, he boiled his fluid repeatedly he had to switch to doing a few hard laps then slowing down
he was a novice so he was probably braking way too early & long, and had no extra cooling just the stock setup
when can I come over and test fit a 15x8 949racing wheel?
The inner dim dimension needs to be 15". And on the Cobalts, only the turbo charger vehicles had the Brembos. The supercharged cars had regular calipers but they could also update to the Brembo.
Whine not Walnuts, how did you redrill the holes in the knuckle lugs?
As the caliper lugs have steel insets (and even if they wouldn't have) then it's also possible to make other insets to change the dimensions of the caliper lugs.
06-30-2018, 10:13 PM
