Let's talk track brakes...
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6th Gear
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From: NJerz
Thank you all for bringing this back to brakes after a short interlude - it's MUCH appreciated by those of us who stand to learn a lot from the discussion.
cct - I feel your pain with a relatively low powered Mini, but it's like you said, find the courses that suit the car well. After all, you're not shooting for trophies quite yet, are you? It's all about driving the underdog, in my opinion. Let's figure out brakes and suspension and watch the jaws drop.
mb
cct - I feel your pain with a relatively low powered Mini, but it's like you said, find the courses that suit the car well. After all, you're not shooting for trophies quite yet, are you? It's all about driving the underdog, in my opinion. Let's figure out brakes and suspension and watch the jaws drop.
mb
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From: Austin, TX
6. What is brake fade?
Fade, or brake fade is the reduction in stopping power caused by a buildup of heat in the braking surfaces (and in the case of drum brakes the arc of the brake shoe don’t match the arc of the drum in response to heat). Brake fade can also be caused by the brake fluid boiling. Compounds are held together by resins, these resins can revert to gas when high temperatures are reached. When this happens the brake pads can “aquaplane” on a film of gas created by the over heated resins. Many low quality pads suffer continuous fade at very low temperatures.
Fade, or brake fade is the reduction in stopping power caused by a buildup of heat in the braking surfaces (and in the case of drum brakes the arc of the brake shoe don’t match the arc of the drum in response to heat). Brake fade can also be caused by the brake fluid boiling. Compounds are held together by resins, these resins can revert to gas when high temperatures are reached. When this happens the brake pads can “aquaplane” on a film of gas created by the over heated resins. Many low quality pads suffer continuous fade at very low temperatures.
Thank you all for bringing this back to brakes after a short interlude - it's MUCH appreciated by those of us who stand to learn a lot from the discussion.
cct - I feel your pain with a relatively low powered Mini, but it's like you said, find the courses that suit the car well. After all, you're not shooting for trophies quite yet, are you? It's all about driving the underdog, in my opinion. Let's figure out brakes and suspension and watch the jaws drop.
mb
cct - I feel your pain with a relatively low powered Mini, but it's like you said, find the courses that suit the car well. After all, you're not shooting for trophies quite yet, are you? It's all about driving the underdog, in my opinion. Let's figure out brakes and suspension and watch the jaws drop.
mb
everyone that drives a Mini keeps forgetting the road eventually straightens out and your brakes and suspension no matter how good they are will do you no good
brakes...... brakes.... yeah that's it
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From: Car Nut Since 1987, Owner Since Fall 2005, Vendor Since Fall 2007
Originally Posted by AutoXCooper.com 
6. What is brake fade?
Fade, or brake fade is the reduction in stopping power caused by a buildup of heat in the braking surfaces (and in the case of drum brakes the arc of the brake shoe don’t match the arc of the drum in response to heat). Brake fade can also be caused by the brake fluid boiling. Compounds are held together by resins, these resins can revert to gas when high temperatures are reached. When this happens the brake pads can “aquaplane” on a film of gas created by the over heated resins. Many low quality pads suffer continuous fade at very low temperatures.
Just a qualifier, this is not an issue faced by CT pads. The next two lines are just as important at the bolded.
6. What is brake fade?
Fade, or brake fade is the reduction in stopping power caused by a buildup of heat in the braking surfaces (and in the case of drum brakes the arc of the brake shoe don’t match the arc of the drum in response to heat). Brake fade can also be caused by the brake fluid boiling. Compounds are held together by resins, these resins can revert to gas when high temperatures are reached. When this happens the brake pads can “aquaplane” on a film of gas created by the over heated resins. Many low quality pads suffer continuous fade at very low temperatures.
Bolded the most important part. The resin which holds the friction material together heats up creates a gas. That gas is what prevents contact and furthermore, friction to occur between the pad and the rotor. This is why slotted rotors have an advantage over solid rotors. They allow the gas to escape.
Lon time listener, first time caller...
I have been watching this thread since it started. First, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the thread because there is a ton of good information contained here. It is nice to see a bunch of different vendors discussing the issue intelligently.
I also have the 11.75 Wilwood kit and run 15" track wheels. I use Team Dynamics Pro Race 1s, which have really good clearance for a 15" wheel. I think I have more breathing room than with a few of my 16" wheels, and they have quite a bit more room than mbcoops. Yet I still have heat issues. As others have said, now that I am running r-comps and getting better, I am pushing my braking system harder than ever. So I have been thinking about all the solutions brought up in this thread.
My last set of rotors lasted 4 months and only 2 track days. The first was an odd event put on by my local SCCA. It was a Wednesday evening 3 till dark. There were only 2 run groups that rotated every 15 minutes. That didn't leave much time for the brakes to cool in between. The rotors warped a little bit from the heat. I never had any fade that day, so I didn't think much about it. Shortly after, I did a track day at Autobahn. The slight warp turned into strong shudders under braking. During my 3rd session in the morning (only 3 groups 20 minutes each) about 15 minutes in I started experiencing bad fade. I did a cool down lap and left the track early. They got a long cool down during the lunch break and did fine through the afternoon. At the end of the day, the rotors were warped, groved, and heat cracked. The poly B pads were crumbling around the edges and almost gone. Needless to say I cooked the brakes.
Thanks to Todd at TCE I got new rotors quickly and in time for my next event. I have a 2 day event at Blackhawk Farms this weekend, which I have heard is killer on brakes. I am curious at how my brakes will hold up.
I guess it is time to start thinking about what I am going to do next year. Investing in new 17" rims and a bigger brake kit is going to cost a lot. The Mini Mania kit is tempting, but I am afraid that it will just be a band-aid in the long run.
I have been watching this thread since it started. First, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the thread because there is a ton of good information contained here. It is nice to see a bunch of different vendors discussing the issue intelligently.
I also have the 11.75 Wilwood kit and run 15" track wheels. I use Team Dynamics Pro Race 1s, which have really good clearance for a 15" wheel. I think I have more breathing room than with a few of my 16" wheels, and they have quite a bit more room than mbcoops. Yet I still have heat issues. As others have said, now that I am running r-comps and getting better, I am pushing my braking system harder than ever. So I have been thinking about all the solutions brought up in this thread.
My last set of rotors lasted 4 months and only 2 track days. The first was an odd event put on by my local SCCA. It was a Wednesday evening 3 till dark. There were only 2 run groups that rotated every 15 minutes. That didn't leave much time for the brakes to cool in between. The rotors warped a little bit from the heat. I never had any fade that day, so I didn't think much about it. Shortly after, I did a track day at Autobahn. The slight warp turned into strong shudders under braking. During my 3rd session in the morning (only 3 groups 20 minutes each) about 15 minutes in I started experiencing bad fade. I did a cool down lap and left the track early. They got a long cool down during the lunch break and did fine through the afternoon. At the end of the day, the rotors were warped, groved, and heat cracked. The poly B pads were crumbling around the edges and almost gone. Needless to say I cooked the brakes.
Thanks to Todd at TCE I got new rotors quickly and in time for my next event. I have a 2 day event at Blackhawk Farms this weekend, which I have heard is killer on brakes. I am curious at how my brakes will hold up.
I guess it is time to start thinking about what I am going to do next year. Investing in new 17" rims and a bigger brake kit is going to cost a lot. The Mini Mania kit is tempting, but I am afraid that it will just be a band-aid in the long run.
I might have been right across from you at Autobahn. I didn't have any issues there, but I really wasn't pushing it--I ran with the novice group, it was the first time for me on that track, and I kept running into traffic (and a bunch of people who were not going to let a MINI pass), so I didn't stress the car out that much. Fun track though, I'll be going back next year.
Blackhawk is probably my favorite track--narrow, lots of turns, only a couple of high speed straights, and they're not terribly long. Its a tough track to learn, but you can run with almost anything there in a MINI. It IS killer on brakes though, toughest track on brakes that I've been on. I heat cracked my rotors there the last time I ran there, and ran my poly b's almost down to the backing plates--they had two events on them at the time though. You'll definitely want to bring an extra set of pads.
Blackhawk is a track I might seriously consider a different pad for next year, and definitely brake ducts.
One thing they did at Blackhawk recently is they put pink dots on the track for turn in and apex, and they're pretty much spot on for the MINI (otherwise its a fairly hard track to pick up marks). There is a mini-carousel area on the track where they don't work so hot, but everywhere else they're great for reference. Be careful on 4, its deceptive--usually you see a turn, and realize you can probably take it faster than how you've just taken it. 4 is exactly the opposite; it looks like you can take it fairly quick, but you can't, it'll really sneak up on you once you start taking the complex of turns through 3 quickly. I wish I could get out there one more time this year, I'm jealous.
Blackhawk is probably my favorite track--narrow, lots of turns, only a couple of high speed straights, and they're not terribly long. Its a tough track to learn, but you can run with almost anything there in a MINI. It IS killer on brakes though, toughest track on brakes that I've been on. I heat cracked my rotors there the last time I ran there, and ran my poly b's almost down to the backing plates--they had two events on them at the time though. You'll definitely want to bring an extra set of pads.
Blackhawk is a track I might seriously consider a different pad for next year, and definitely brake ducts.
One thing they did at Blackhawk recently is they put pink dots on the track for turn in and apex, and they're pretty much spot on for the MINI (otherwise its a fairly hard track to pick up marks). There is a mini-carousel area on the track where they don't work so hot, but everywhere else they're great for reference. Be careful on 4, its deceptive--usually you see a turn, and realize you can probably take it faster than how you've just taken it. 4 is exactly the opposite; it looks like you can take it fairly quick, but you can't, it'll really sneak up on you once you start taking the complex of turns through 3 quickly. I wish I could get out there one more time this year, I'm jealous.
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From: Tejas
Besides, used Wilwood kits sell quick...
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6th Gear
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From: NJerz
Lon time listener, first time caller...
My last set of rotors lasted 4 months and only 2 track days. The first was an odd event put on by my local SCCA. It was a Wednesday evening 3 till dark. There were only 2 run groups that rotated every 15 minutes. That didn't leave much time for the brakes to cool in between. The rotors warped a little bit from the heat. I never had any fade that day, so I didn't think much about it. Shortly after, I did a track day at Autobahn. The slight warp turned into strong shudders under braking. During my 3rd session in the morning (only 3 groups 20 minutes each) about 15 minutes in I started experiencing bad fade. I did a cool down lap and left the track early. They got a long cool down during the lunch break and did fine through the afternoon. At the end of the day, the rotors were warped, groved, and heat cracked. The poly B pads were crumbling around the edges and almost gone. Needless to say I cooked the brakes.
My last set of rotors lasted 4 months and only 2 track days. The first was an odd event put on by my local SCCA. It was a Wednesday evening 3 till dark. There were only 2 run groups that rotated every 15 minutes. That didn't leave much time for the brakes to cool in between. The rotors warped a little bit from the heat. I never had any fade that day, so I didn't think much about it. Shortly after, I did a track day at Autobahn. The slight warp turned into strong shudders under braking. During my 3rd session in the morning (only 3 groups 20 minutes each) about 15 minutes in I started experiencing bad fade. I did a cool down lap and left the track early. They got a long cool down during the lunch break and did fine through the afternoon. At the end of the day, the rotors were warped, groved, and heat cracked. The poly B pads were crumbling around the edges and almost gone. Needless to say I cooked the brakes.
TSW - does your kit fit under x-lites?
mb
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From: Tejas
Don't believe we test fit them over x-lites... If you'd like to check, here's the link to the fitment template:
http://www.txwerks.com/images/Instal...ILHOUETTE1.pdf
http://www.txwerks.com/images/Instal...ILHOUETTE1.pdf
Back to some very, very basics...
the amount of energy dissipated has nothing to do with what pad you run, it's the delta between car speeds and the mass of the car (including rotational component speed changes). This energy goes into a couple of places: The rotor (think of it as a very, very large heat sink: High mass with very high specific heat (amount of heat per degree change in temp)), the pad, less thermal mass, lower specific heat, and lower effective heat of vaporization (turning stuff into gas). In the short term, this is what creates fade: Pad floating on rotor, and slots and holes help with this. Longer term boiling fluid is usually a culprit (hence the need to insulate the caliper from conducted heat).
If the thermal mass and cooling of the rotor isn't very good (low thermal mass, poor cooling or both) you will hit very high temps and this will lead to the pad vaporizing, crumbling or whatever. Getting a higher thermal mass and ducts to help more quickly cool the brake will help preserve whatever pad you're running.
FWIW, there are tons of race pads that are made out of materials that don't vaporize, Carbotech doesn't have a corner on that market. Some serious race pads have the drawback that they don't bite till hot. To really know, look at the co-efficient of friction vs temp. One of the attractive items with carbon based brake pads (kevlar too) is that some of the higher temp race pads tend to be very hard on the rotor till up to temp. Whatever you run, gets some good tech data on the pad. It's usually easier to find this stuff for the race stuff than the street stuff.
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
If the thermal mass and cooling of the rotor isn't very good (low thermal mass, poor cooling or both) you will hit very high temps and this will lead to the pad vaporizing, crumbling or whatever. Getting a higher thermal mass and ducts to help more quickly cool the brake will help preserve whatever pad you're running.
FWIW, there are tons of race pads that are made out of materials that don't vaporize, Carbotech doesn't have a corner on that market. Some serious race pads have the drawback that they don't bite till hot. To really know, look at the co-efficient of friction vs temp. One of the attractive items with carbon based brake pads (kevlar too) is that some of the higher temp race pads tend to be very hard on the rotor till up to temp. Whatever you run, gets some good tech data on the pad. It's usually easier to find this stuff for the race stuff than the street stuff.
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
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From: Car Nut Since 1987, Owner Since Fall 2005, Vendor Since Fall 2007
FWIW, there are tons of race pads that are made out of materials that don't vaporize, Carbotech doesn't have a corner on that market. Some serious race pads have the drawback that they don't bite till hot. To really know, look at the co-efficient of friction vs temp. One of the attractive items with carbon based brake pads (kevlar too) is that some of the higher temp race pads tend to be very hard on the rotor till up to temp. Whatever you run, gets some good tech data on the pad. It's usually easier to find this stuff for the race stuff than the street stuff.
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
Oh man, I'm drooling right now reading this thread. I just got a new set of Carbotech XP-10's and XP-8's in the mail yesterday that I'm going to take to VIR's Full Course this weekend (thx Dustin). I've never run race pads before, and I fried a set of Bobcats last time on the South Course that shares a long straighaway with the Full Course.
I'll let you guys know how the XP's do on stock calipers and stock-sized rotors (ATE slotted), although admittedly I don't have much basis for comparison. I'm gonna need every bit of braking I can find to run with the M3s. =)
I'll let you guys know how the XP's do on stock calipers and stock-sized rotors (ATE slotted), although admittedly I don't have much basis for comparison. I'm gonna need every bit of braking I can find to run with the M3s. =)
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From: Car Nut Since 1987, Owner Since Fall 2005, Vendor Since Fall 2007
Oh man, I'm drooling right now reading this thread. I just got a new set of Carbotech XP-10's and XP-8's in the mail yesterday that I'm going to take to VIR's Full Course this weekend (thx Dustin). I've never run race pads before, and I fried a set of Bobcats last time on the South Course that shares a long straighaway with the Full Course.
Full disclaimer: I was in the D run group (novice) on street tires, this event counts as my 4th and 5th track days, and I mostly ran the school line.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
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From: NJerz
Full disclaimer: I was in the D run group (novice) on street tires, this event counts as my 4th and 5th track days, and I mostly ran the school line.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
mb
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Not quite true
the amount of energy dissipated has nothing to do with what pad you run, it's the delta between car speeds and the mass of the car (including rotational component speed changes). This energy goes into a couple of places: The rotor (think of it as a very, very large heat sink: High mass with very high specific heat (amount of heat per degree change in temp)), the pad, less thermal mass, lower specific heat, and lower effective heat of vaporization (turning stuff into gas). In the short term, this is what creates fade: Pad floating on rotor, and slots and holes help with this. Longer term boiling fluid is usually a culprit (hence the need to insulate the caliper from conducted heat).
If the thermal mass and cooling of the rotor isn't very good (low thermal mass, poor cooling or both) you will hit very high temps and this will lead to the pad vaporizing, crumbling or whatever. Getting a higher thermal mass and ducts to help more quickly cool the brake will help preserve whatever pad you're running.
FWIW, there are tons of race pads that are made out of materials that don't vaporize, Carbotech doesn't have a corner on that market. Some serious race pads have the drawback that they don't bite till hot. To really know, look at the co-efficient of friction vs temp. One of the attractive items with carbon based brake pads (kevlar too) is that some of the higher temp race pads tend to be very hard on the rotor till up to temp. Whatever you run, gets some good tech data on the pad. It's usually easier to find this stuff for the race stuff than the street stuff.
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
If the thermal mass and cooling of the rotor isn't very good (low thermal mass, poor cooling or both) you will hit very high temps and this will lead to the pad vaporizing, crumbling or whatever. Getting a higher thermal mass and ducts to help more quickly cool the brake will help preserve whatever pad you're running.
FWIW, there are tons of race pads that are made out of materials that don't vaporize, Carbotech doesn't have a corner on that market. Some serious race pads have the drawback that they don't bite till hot. To really know, look at the co-efficient of friction vs temp. One of the attractive items with carbon based brake pads (kevlar too) is that some of the higher temp race pads tend to be very hard on the rotor till up to temp. Whatever you run, gets some good tech data on the pad. It's usually easier to find this stuff for the race stuff than the street stuff.
A good thing to do as you're getting better at track work is get some thermal stickers or paint (check www.omega.com for stuff like this) so you can actually see your peak temps. The gizmos change color when they hit a certain temp. This will give you a bit more info than just wating for the pads to disintegrate or the anodizing of the hat to change color.
Matt
The gases everyone is talking about are only released once, that is what the bed-in procedure does. The fade that most of you are experiencing is due to the limitations of the pads. You are asking it to do more than it is capable of and taking it beyond it's performance capabilities. The pads are not vaporizing, you are simply going through the material at a very rapid rate, leaving dust every where you go. You cant turn this particular solid into a gas, just a different form of a solid (dust).
You mentioned Carbotech pads. Even they have there limits. As I'm sure Dustin has informed, the street pad (Bobcat) is not intended for the track. It would hit it's limits as well and lose it's braking ability. The race pads are a different story. Many track pads do need some heat into them to work well, but that is not always the case. The cooling ducts are always a good idea. They do preserve the entire braking system. Slotted rotors can help with some of the heat as well, not gas though. As I said earlier, that is released once, during bed-in, if done properly. The bed-in procedure varies with every manufacturer as well. BTW, the coefficient numbers aren't very useful, they can be made up. There is no industry standard that is followed or used. Autox covered this once too. The only track pad that I have used and found it to be rotor friendly was the Carbotech's. Everybody else's pads I tried tore the rotors up (Hawk, PFC, Morse, Cobalt and Raybestos).
The temp paint is a good idea as well. Even if your just starting out.
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Tell that to the guy who just wrecked because he couldn't stop fast enough. Brakes, Seat belts and air bags are the most important safety item's on every car. Tires and suspension also factor into stopping distance. (And I'm not talking about following distance. I'm referring to things that happen in an instant, things that come out of nowhere.)
Full disclaimer: I was in the D run group (novice) on street tires, this event counts as my 4th and 5th track days, and I mostly ran the school line.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
Just got back from a weekend at VIR with the Tarheel BMWCCA. I ran Carbotech's XP10 front and XP8 rear on rotors that have seen only ct's pads. I passed two different M3s because I ran Oak Tree faster (turn 11 and 11a), where it's important to get on the gas as soon as you finish braking. My instructor commented that my braking technique was solid all weekend. These pads made it easy to stop and maintain control, and I had zero fade. My tires probably took longer to heat up than the pads did, too.
...they came back nicely with a litlle sanding . my xp8's will be here next week before my hpde at thunderbolt!
Sorry...
The type of pad that you run has a lot to do with the amount of energy dissipated. There are characteristics of compounds in different pads that create more heat than others, the type of metals used in the pad is a factor and the amount of friction that is created by the pad can change the temperature drastically. The way in which the pads distribute that heat varies as well. Some put it into the rotor, some into the caliper, and some dissipate it through themselves.
The gases everyone is talking about are only released once, that is what the bed-in procedure does. The fade that most of you are experiencing is due to the limitations of the pads. You are asking it to do more than it is capable of and taking it beyond it's performance capabilities. The pads are not vaporizing, you are simply going through the material at a very rapid rate, leaving dust every where you go. You cant turn this particular solid into a gas, just a different form of a solid (dust).
You mentioned Carbotech pads. Even they have there limits. As I'm sure Dustin has informed, the street pad (Bobcat) is not intended for the track. It would hit it's limits as well and lose it's braking ability. The race pads are a different story. Many track pads do need some heat into them to work well, but that is not always the case. The cooling ducts are always a good idea. They do preserve the entire braking system. Slotted rotors can help with some of the heat as well, not gas though. As I said earlier, that is released once, during bed-in, if done properly. The bed-in procedure varies with every manufacturer as well. BTW, the coefficient numbers aren't very useful, they can be made up. There is no industry standard that is followed or used. Autox covered this once too. The only track pad that I have used and found it to be rotor friendly was the Carbotech's. Everybody else's pads I tried tore the rotors up (Hawk, PFC, Morse, Cobalt and Raybestos).
The temp paint is a good idea as well. Even if your just starting out.
The gases everyone is talking about are only released once, that is what the bed-in procedure does. The fade that most of you are experiencing is due to the limitations of the pads. You are asking it to do more than it is capable of and taking it beyond it's performance capabilities. The pads are not vaporizing, you are simply going through the material at a very rapid rate, leaving dust every where you go. You cant turn this particular solid into a gas, just a different form of a solid (dust).
You mentioned Carbotech pads. Even they have there limits. As I'm sure Dustin has informed, the street pad (Bobcat) is not intended for the track. It would hit it's limits as well and lose it's braking ability. The race pads are a different story. Many track pads do need some heat into them to work well, but that is not always the case. The cooling ducts are always a good idea. They do preserve the entire braking system. Slotted rotors can help with some of the heat as well, not gas though. As I said earlier, that is released once, during bed-in, if done properly. The bed-in procedure varies with every manufacturer as well. BTW, the coefficient numbers aren't very useful, they can be made up. There is no industry standard that is followed or used. Autox covered this once too. The only track pad that I have used and found it to be rotor friendly was the Carbotech's. Everybody else's pads I tried tore the rotors up (Hawk, PFC, Morse, Cobalt and Raybestos).
The temp paint is a good idea as well. Even if your just starting out.
Matt
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From: Car Nut Since 1987, Owner Since Fall 2005, Vendor Since Fall 2007
This is a great thread