mbcoops

I've had the same rotors on my car since 2003 with no problem. The first kits used Supera rotors that were machined for the MINI. You saw the setup @ Thunderbolt and it was on my 03 before the GP.
You need air (ducts or whatever). Rotor thickness also helps. Looking at your setup all I think of is heat.

TSW uses almost the same setup now with which I believe are Chapman rotors and hats.

 

To clear up some items on the TSW BBK from experience

TSW BDM BBK is a 1.25" rotor. It does work with many 16" wheels as it was designed around Dr Mike's desire to retain his 15" track wheel setup. The hat is designed to be 5mm wider then standard. In effect running a 5mm spacer

Hats are custom made and not an off the shelf item. The rotors are an off the shelf Coleman Racing rotor.

Hope that helps.

It's no slight on TCE that I swapped from TCE to TSW. TSW is in my backyard and has a keg of Shiner Bock and cigars at the shop. I give 2 thumbs up to both TCE and TSW both in support and product quality.

 

Thanks Nate
Wasn't sure if it was Chapman or Coleman racing.

 

A reply from Carbotech; “There is no industry standard to follow. There is no baseline or test that the industry uses or follows as a whole. We could make up any numbers we want, as could the rest of the industry, and there would be no way of proving our numbers or disproving another manufactures. We could make claims against our competition and they could do the same to us.
You may notice some companies that do post info use numbers and test results are often up against a street based pad. They would never take on another performance company, it would start a AD campaign that nobody would win. The numbers are really only relevant in-house for comparisons between our compounds.
The proof is in the performance, that is where it really counts. Lap times and braking points, going deeper than the competition and Winning Races.”

I do not wish to get into a competition with Todd or any other BBK on the market. Many of you need BBK’s and many of you don’t. I’m here to help those of you looking for a brake pad that helps you go deeper at the track without spending $1000 plus on a BBK. If you have a BBK and just are not 100% happy with the pads you run, I invite you to try a Carbotech Track Pad.
The R56S came with BBK’s in that, they came with the R53 JCW brake setup, but the OEM pads are not track pads, try a set of CT Track Pads in a R56S and you will enjoy a safe and fast lap anywhere.
Brakes are one of the 1st points of safety for you and your investment and we take that very seriously and I would never sell you something that I would not ride shotgun with you using. We are here if you are looking for something different. Please PM me for more details and pricing for other BBK pad pricing.

 

I'd be willing to do a Carbotech vs Raybestos R43 on track comparison next weekend at Motorsports Ranch in TX if the pads were supplied.

Raybestos R43 I have on hand.

 

Interesting thought on the industry standard. I'd grant you that one persons test on concrete vs another's on iron and another's on a greased pig would certainly make for some changes in data! Point well taken and I can't say that I could dispute this comment at all not knowing how Wilwood, Porterfield, Pagid and a couple others compile the info.

I would be interested in hearing the results of some good back to back with the Raybestos 43 and an optional pad. Maybe I'm missing something on these options also. I'll toss in $20 towards the pads.

 

Sorry...the Model # on the Raybestos is ST-43 had Porterfield R4's on the brain in my first post.

BTW the pad shape is Wilwood 7112 or PFC 752 or Hawk HB 100 or Raybestos R302.

 

This is an idea I can get behind. Just one more issue. The CT's would need to be run on diff rotors the the Rays. You have an extra set of new rotors? If not what would be the cost? I might be able to sell this to CT.

 

Ok, this is getting VERY interesting. If we could throw in a Wilwood comparo, that would pretty much do it. Great to see vendors working together, what a nice change of pace!

 

Fun stuff! I'd love to know how the Poly B stands up in this comparison...

mb

 

The best laid plans of mice and men go awry...

So much angling for some free pads in the interest of science

A pad swap between sessions is one thing, but a rotor swap is another with all the bolts and latent heat. Would really need to have a rotor/hat set ready to go in order to do a between session swap.

Looks like one of the 2 days going to be wet too depending on Gustav.

Might be better to wait on this till I visit the faster track with it's reputation of killing brakes if we can find a solution to the rotor swap.

 

...and leave us nought but grief and pain for promised joy...

Oh well, maybe some other time?

mb

 

I looked into this a bit more.

As stated before Carbotech stipulates new rotors which would necessitate a rotor swap at the track. While that's not out of the realm of possibilities it would make much more sense to have a set of rotors with hats installed ready to go to facilitate the swap. Cost becomes a factor here. The rotors themselves are not the expensive and having a spare set on hand is not a bad idea. It's the hats where this becomes spendy. All told for rotors, hats and hardware we are looking at about $650. Better than 400 of that is for the hats.

 

$650 for hats, rotors, bolts and safety wire (equalling one spare)? Or for other items in there as well?

 

Breakdown is as follows

prices are approx and slightly rounded

Hats 420
Rotors 210
Hardware 20

add 8.25 TX sales tax too since TSW is local, that's another 50 some bucks. So we'd really be looking at about 700. Out of area would have to add shipping and being these are heavy we'll call shipping and tax a wash.

No safety wire, the TSW BDM BBK uses Aircraft Grade bolts and pinch nuts.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Also, from the pad description above, it looks like what I run currently (non-Mini). I usually just ask for a NASCAR 4" pad from Porterfield or other vendor depending on the setup.



Regarding your testing at MSR, will you also be using a pyrometer?

 

I'm wondering if it would be better to test at MSR or ECR. MSR I know better but ECR is much harder on brakes.

I'm not sure what a pyrometer would add. Some one would need to be at pit in so I could come in mid session for readings. Trying to get them as one comes off at the end of the session would lead to erratic readings.

One could be used and the data posted. I'm just not sure how to use the data from a pyrometer.

On a side note, will you be at MSR this weekend?

 

I haven't been at ECR...yet. I didn't know it was harder on brakes. I feel that MSR is hard on brakes, because there isn't much distance between braking points to allow cooling time.

The pyrometer might not provide the best data, but it can provide some. I've tested out certain pads and even stock brakes, but it only provides data that isn't precise enough to count for much. It becomes all relative - i.e. - stock setup was at X temp, diff pads, X, wilwood billets were at X and wilwood forged were at X and of course the stack of pads I went through as well. Not sufficient or something I would want to see in regards for marketing data, but seeing them cooler and more consistent helps justify the dollars spent over stock pads.

I'm unfamiliar with the setup on the Minis - is it proportioned well? Or can you put a stickier pad in the rear to bring it down? (fuax prop valve?)

Unfortunately, not at this weekend's event with TDE. I'll probably be at the Nov & Dec events.

 

Nate, have you had any issues with the brake ducts throwing up debris during normal driving?

Reason I ask is that you can buy pieces of the Minimania kit individually, so it would be possible to buy the backing plates, then get a longer three inch hose and attach that to a 3 inch duct through the foglights. It would require removing the foglights, but there are a ton of ducts that would fit; those are relatively easy to find. Might be the best of both worlds. On the other hand, the more I look at the Minimania kit, the more that it looks like it would'nt be that big of a deal to install/uninstall at the track.


Decisions, decisions....

 

In a word no...

The duct is high enough that regular debris has not entered the ducting.

There was this one time I was out between some fields in Noplace, TX and there was grasshopper cloud. The grills were covered, many entered the ducting and were splattered on the inside of the wheels and the back of the calipers.

Rain makes for some pucker moments. Exp when on teh highway and not using the brakes often.

What worries me about the Mini Mania scoops is how low they hang. Even if you take them off before leaving the track, adding to the hassle factor, bouncing off some of the more aggressive Alligator tooth curbing might rip them off.

 

I didn't even think about that....At Road america, I use the rumble strips with reckless abandon, and some of them are fairly deep. The Alligator tooth curbing on turn 5 is deceptive; it doesn't look bad, until you hit it (ask me how I know). If you got on to that, it would toast those ducts. Ok, well at least that gets me going in the right direction--think the winter project will be to couple the Minimania backing plates to a three inch duct...

 

Keep us posted on what you decide with the ducts... I'll be watching closely. I think I might just go with the MM kit and hang it up higher after track events. I'm not going for trophies, so I won't need to be too high up on any curbing. If I screw up and go off, then I expect some crap to happen to the underbody.

Are you saying that with the MM backing plate and different tubing you could remedy this?

mb

 

What I'm thinking of doing is putting an inlet where the foglights are, that tapers to 3 inches for the tubing (I found a carbon fiber inlet that's 3.5 inches at the opening, and tapers to 3 inches for the connecting tubing). Those MiniMania backing plates look great. You can get a good brake duct hose pretty much anywhere--the good ones aren't cheap, but the problem with the MiniMania hose is I think it will be too short to route to the inlet if placed in the foglight opening. Apparently the hosing will take some manipulation to get it from the foglight to backing plates, but I have alot of free time in the winter. I'm still looking for a decent inlet though--I'd like to put a black one (or even perhaps white one, that would also match my cars colors) rather than carbon fiber. I think the guy that Nate was talking about used a pvc type piece for the inlet, anything would work as long as its three inches in diameter where it hooks to the tubing.

I love getting up on the curbing; on some tracks you can use it to set the car up for the next turn, on others it gives you a fair bit more track to work with. I've unfortunately gotten into the bigger alligator curbing before (only once, and hopefully never again), and I really wouldn't want anything lower than the front skirt, I'll bet I would have sheared those ducts right off. But even the normal rumble strip curbing concerns me, especially when I eventually get coilovers and go lower for the track.

 

These are conventional Wilwood Dynalites. I stock a reasonable supply of pad options for them all the time. From street use to AutoX, to open track compounds.

 

Yes - If I got the MM kit, I would most definitely have it modified to have the tube go to the fog light opening.

mb