Yesterday I had a local shop mount up some new Konig Again 4 (18/7.5, ET 45mm) rims with Toyo Proxes 4 (205/40/18) tires. All was well until I drove off from the tire shop. As I took off from the first stop and turned right, the steering pulled to the left then to the right. On the freeway, the Mini (R56) seemed somewhat "darty." When I got home, I checked the wheel bolt torque and tire pressures and they were fine.
Today I put some miles on the new wheels thinking that maybe I needed to scuff in the tires? The miles seemed to help minimize some of the darty and veering response, but, when I had to apply the brakes fairly hard at freeway speeds, the Mini veered to the left and right. Very strange.
Not sure what is up. I can't believe it is the new rims, maybe the M&S tread block on the Toyo's is causing the instability? I have to say that I prefer the steering response of the OE Dunlop runflats over the Toyo's. Maybe I should have bought more agressive (stiffer sidewalls) summer tires? Anybody have any ideas of what is up with my new set up? I might be taking Toyo's back and getting other tires. Vic

PS: Lowering springs are on order

 

I've heard that M+S rated tires do act strangely under stress ie-hard acceleration or braking. Put a few hundred miles on them and see. I bent a control arm on a truck I used to have and it was everywhere for a mile a 2 after the alignment. Maybe they just have to break in?

 

I'd have'm recheck the alignment - sounds like the camber or toe settings aren't quite right.

gl

 

Another thing to check is that the hub fits correctly or that they have the right size hub rings on there. I had wheels put on a BMW once with the hub wrong and the car acted oddly and had a vibration a certain speeds.

 

Does the darty feeling come on with any turns or with just hard acceleration?
i.e. does it feel darty going straight or when turning.

I think your darty feeling could be heavy torque steer with acceleration straight or when turning. That's pretty common and can happen with any new tires.

Toe settings that are too much toe out will also give a darty feeling on steering when manuevering. Stock toe setting is slightly toe in for the front and rears.

 

Minihune,

With the new Toyo's, I have not done any hard acceleration. Once I scrubbed off the mold release, it seems the dartiness diminished a bit. As I mentioned in my post, hard braking in a straightline caused the car to veer to the left and right. As I think about that situation, maybe it has nothing to do with the tires, but with the brakes? Under certain cornering conditions, the tires seem somewhat mushy, even though I increased tire pressures from 38 to 40 psi.
Understand the Toyo's have a 500 mile test option, so I might return them and get some Falken 452's, since they have good reviews and are NOT M&S rated. Thanks. Vic

 

Check the brakes. You can also change to a different set of wheels and tires and see if the feeling goes away or not. If it's the brakes then it might still be a problem.

Misalignment can also cause pulling right or left.

Toyo Proxes 4 are Ultra High performance All Season tires. 205/40-18 will have a softer sidewall than 215/35-18.

Falken Fk452 is an Ultra High Performance Summer tire with better handling than the Proxes 4. In 215/35-18 it costs $100 each, 300 treadwear, and be slightly heavier than the same sized Proxes 4 by about 1 lb.

 

Sure the offset is what they said? The 45mm should be stamped inside the wheel somewhere to confirm.

 

i would try lowering the psi down to 35-36 cold and give it a shot.

 

I agree with Kenchan, the tire pressure is a little high for my liking.

Previous experience with Proxes 4 was very good for me.

If the wheel offset is a lot different, you'll probably notice the car following road irregularities differently as well.

 

sounds like offset and maybe even torque on the bolts. If the bolts were improperly torqued it could put some lateral forces on the rotors which cause a shimmy under load

 

Mine is more darty with a change to tires with a much stiffer sidewall. It feels just like the pulling you get from negative camber. By all the comments I would just guess that the MINI runs an above average neg camber up front, which is always a good thing.

 

Any hub rings in the mix here???????

 

What wheels did you have before you installed the 18"?

The car will be a bit more 'darty' with lower sidewall tires in general. Especially on a big rim like an 18". I always suggest getting an alignment after getting new tires - especially if both tires and rims are changed.

 

BY ALL MEANS: Check the torque on the bolts. 90 ft lbs is a general target I use. I think my '05 MCS manual calls for 88.5 ft lbs.

I've been to two different tire shops that GORILLAd the lug nuts on so tightly I couldn't get them off with my wrench and ended up going back to the store for them to impact wrench them loose.

 

I want to thank everyone for the responses. To recap, I switched from the OE Dunlop Runflats (205/45/17) and Crown Spokes to the Konig Again 4's (with hubcentric rings) 18/7.5, ET 45mm and Toyo Proxes 4 (205/40/18).
Some of you mentioned that wheel offset my also effect handling. I will keep this in mind. Yesterday I went for another test drive and while taking one of my favorite decreasing radius freeway on ramps, mid corner, all of sudden the MCS pulled to the left as the wheels went over some rougher/grainy cement sections. It was significant enough for me to back off the throttle. The OE wheels never reacted like that on that section. Hmmm.
Anyhow, I have a set of Michelin PS2's on order (205/40/18) and will be returning the Toyo's next week. I'm keeping my fingercrossed the PS2's will solve the problem. Thanks again. Vic

 

another thing that can cause funny handling is if the tires are directional and on the car backwards, i can't tell from your pics though, but looks like you are getting different tires anyway

 

I installed a set of Toyo Proxes 4's last weekend. 215-45-17's mounted on Enkei RPF1's 17X7 ET 43mm. I ordered the aluminum Hub-centric rings.

I am very disappointed with the steering response. The Toyo's are a lot mushier than the stock Goodyear runflats I had. I have put a couple of miles on them already and they have yet to improve. Today was the first dry weather that we have had and the tail stepped out on me on a corner I used to take a lot faster witht he stock run flats.

One word of caution, these are directional tires and I had to switch two around after I had the wheels bolted up to the car. The are marked left and right hand on the tire wall.

I would be interested to see what other people have to say about the steering reponse. Personally I like sharp crisp steering. I do not like the tire roll I am getting upon turn-in.

 

run flat tires have super stiff sidewalls so will always have good steering response, look for tires with steel sidewalls like 205/40R16 or 225/45R17 falken rt-615 for some nice feel, avoid the goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3, i have those on right now and the sidewalls are very mushy when compared to runflats

 

I'm sorry to hear you're having a bad experience with your new wheels so far. They're absolutely beautiful and look great on your car. The fact that the handling is off so dramatically and suddenly after changing nothing but the wheels and tires, seems to suggest the problem is not in the suspension settings or brakes. Is it possible you have a directional tread pointing in the wrong direction? Could the tires be rubbing against a suspension component? Let us know how the new tires work out.

 

Thanks. I am very happy with the Konigs. They are light and very well finished. Handling quirks aside, the new wheels balanced out very nicely with absolutely no vibration or noise. I have to believe the problem is with the Toyo's and their M&S soft tread design squirming under load. My guess is the Toyo's will get better as they wear down, but, I don't want to wait for them to come around

 

Maybe I'm the only one, but, after my experience with the Toyo's, I much prefer the response of the OE Dunlop summer runflats...even in the wet. Noise and harshness aside, the OE tires are quite "sporty" and made my MCS feel light on its feet....so to speak. With the Toyo's, the MCS felt like it gained weight.
I had GY F1 GS D3's (225/40/18) on my previous R32 and loved them. Yes, the sidewalls were a bit soft, but, for a 40 series tire, they stuck like glue under both wet and dry conditions. Always consistent. I would have purchased GY F1's if they had the right size to fit my MCS (40 series).

 

Yes, the F1 GS-D3 has softer sidewalls and thus a better ride. But if you look at tire tests it is near the top in wet and dry handling and braking. So you can have handling that feels good, or handling that doesn't have the same level of feel but is actually higher in grip.

I have the F1's and love em. But I wish I could have the 'feel' of direct steering input as run flats, plus the same level of perf as the F1's, yet not as jarring over expansion strips as the run flats were on the concrete parkway I commute daily. (They were unusable.) Alas those traits run counter to one another.

 

yeah i wasn't saying the f1's are bad i was just saying they have soft sidewalls and steering feel isn't their strength, hell i did skidpad testing with them and got 1.03G dry and 0.88 wet which is nothing to sneeze at

 

Exactly. I'm hoping the PS2's I have on order will be a good compromise? They are quite a bit more spendy then the Toyo 4's I will be returning.