So what if the wheels are heavy....
 

Why so many people against heavy aftermarket wheels, given majority (probably 95%) of NAM members has never raced their own MINI (on a race track) yet alone with other professional race car drivers, and lastly, I don't think anyone on this forum has a full race MINI - if you believe you have a full race MINI (street/race legal), please post, cause it will be great to see for the first time. :)

So why do some members still continue to say, "I would buy those wheels only if they didn't weigh so much?" :confused:

There are some who claim they can tell the difference in handling a pound makes. Personally, I believe for typical street use, the vast majority of the mods are simply personal preference/aesthetics. But, why do you care? Someone wants light wheels, let them.

Someone could make the argument that accelerating/decelerating heavy wheel/tire takes a bunch of energy. That's bad for economy-especially in-town driving. I know from bicycles that rotating mass of wheels makes a big difference when changing speed. I've never seen a calculation though of how much difference it makes to city mileage.

Welp, as someone who has traded heavy stock for much lighter aftermarket wheels and non-runflat tires I can attest to the fact that it did indeed make a difference on how the car feels on the street. In the case of the Mini with its not huge horsepower and front wheel drive it just seems to improve the braking and responsiveness vs having the heavier mass to deal with.

I don't give a sh$t what wheels you guys buy - that was not my question. I just wanted to know from others (who continue to put down heavy wheels), why does it matter when you don't plan to take your MINI to a race track?

I own a 2004 E55 AMG - bone stock. I think the wheels on my AMG weigh as much as my kitchen sink (kidn'), but seriously, I can't feel difference from my AMG wheels to my buddy's HRE wheels on his E55.

Anyway, we are on same line...I think its all personal preference, unless you plan to race.

A lighter wheel will take less energy to change speed. So, braking and acceleration will be better. Also, when tossed up or down by rough road surfaces, a light wheel will be throwing less energy at the suspension, so a smoother ride.

The flip side is that a heavier wheel will probably not be damaged as easily by potholes. However, that would depend on how the wheel is made. A lighter forged wheel can be just as resistant to damage as a heavier cast wheel. So, it is probably just that heavy wheels are easier and cheaper to make strong than light wheels.

It also might be that with the E55 AMG's 469 horsepower and 516 lb-ft. of torque a few lb difference in wheel weights will not be noticeable. While the Mini with 1/3 of that power has a bit more trouble overcoming a 5 or lb difference in wheels.

eVAL - It's great you are able to feel the difference of the weight of the wheels. Cause honestly, when I drove my friends E55 (same year/model as my E55), I couldn't tell the difference in weight, I did however, feel the road more, especially the potholes. :)

There is plenty of theory and physics to support the benefits of lighter wheels. The question, I have, though, is how much weight difference makes a difference? Here, that information is almost entirely anecdotal. Not that anecdotal evidence doesn't count. But, to me, even my radio sounds better after I wash my car.

a few things:

1) there are a few track only mini's on this board. However, a topic like this isn't going to bring them out of the wood work to post.
2) lighter wheels do make a difference. Lighter anything makes a difference. If you can shave 50lbs of weight to the car that's a big difference in and of itself. If you can shave 50lbs of un sprung rotating mass off the car that makes an even bigger difference.
3) comparing a high hp 2 ton vehicle to a low (relativly) hp 1.5 ton vehicle isn't much of a comparision. Are you going to run 15, 16 or even 17" wheels on that benzo... probobly not.
4) It's basic physics. Weather or not you can feel it is one thing. But you can't beat physics. Granted the majority of the weight savings is towards the center of the rotating mass and not hte outsides where weight reduction will truly matter... however weight reduction on rotating mass matters. simple as that.
5) just because you don't track your car doens't mean light wheels don't have an advantage to you. There are autoX junkys on here that benefit from light wheels, canyon carvers as well, and dont' forget us Deals Gap Junkies (RIP Deals Gap 07).

don't take my word for it... do whatever you want.

p.s. removing weight adds up. get rid of 50lbs for lighter wheels and tires. Another 50 for removing back seat etc... next thing you know your car weighs 2400lbs instead of 2900. In changing wheels alone will give you .001 hp per pound or an increase in roughly 3hp. People have done stranger things to get 3hp out of these cars.

An even better question to ask the members. :) Thanks for the chuckle as well - "radio sounds better after washing your car" :lol: :lol: When I wash my car, I feel my car gained another 20hp. :lol:

I changed wheels and tires at the same time, so I can't tell how much to attribute to the wheels and how much to the tires. I went from 22.5 lb. Crown Spoke 17" with OEM Dunlap runflats to <16 lb. CenterLine RPM 17" with Michelin Pilot Exhalto PE2 non-runflats. The difference is quite noticeable, but whether it is all tire or tire and wheel, I don't know.

Tough to find an aftermarket wheel heavier than the Slites...:)


Apparent you have yet to visit the Road Racing Discussion forum. If you're truly interested, and not just making a snide assertion, see here.


Because they don't want to spend money just for looks?



+1

You know, my bicycle comment wasn't just for fun. You have a direct, instant, personal experience with wheel changes. You can change wheels quickly, swap between a few sets, and feel what acceleration/deceleration changes are like. It's different than seeing an equation on a page, or trying to relate it to out on the road. And the changes are HUGE.

Simple physics. With a car, things are scaled up, and it's not your muscles powering things, so feedback isn't as direct. The same exact things are going on, though. Removing 50lbs of rotating mass has an effect on acceleration/braking. It can't be helped.

You don't have to be on a racetrack to experience differences.

Now, if you, on the other hand, don't care about those changes... then fine... don't buy them. If you're attempting to comment on those that do-I'm sure they care as much about your opinion as you do of theirs.

1. I haven't visited the Road Racing discussion, thanks for the link. :) Sorry if my comment came out that way to you. I just felt if people are going to make negative comments (snide assertion) on heavy wheels, don't just share the difference in weight (we know already), tell us how we can actually feel the difference when driving on city/hwy. :) Cause like you, I'm sure you watched many episodes of TOP GEAR. I've never heard Jeremy Clarkson (the test car driver), say anything about the weight of the wheels being a huge factor. :)


2. Looks has nothing to do with weight of the wheels.

Hey guys,

Like I said, I don't care what wheels you guys buy. I just want to know (as an avg. driver) how do you feel the difference when driving on city/hwy?

And you can't compare bicycle wheels to a car. On bicycle, you can actually feel lighter wheels are better.

Wow! I guess I'll need to start washing my car every day. In a week I should be able to get 250db and 250HP!

gl

Light wheels FTW!! Even if you can't tell the difference while driving, you can tell the difference while rotating tires hehe...

While it is true, that unsprung weight is the enemy of race cars, I believe what your saying is absolutely true. It's all about power to weight ratio and unsprung weight is the worst. There is a reason why race cars came with "mag" wheels years ago and it wasn't for bling. There is a move now to ceramic brakes (meaning the rotors) with a main reason being a ~50% reduction in unsprung weight. Lower unsprung weight means the less work the suspension has to do.

That said, your question is about the street and I believe the reason is ... because the feel they need to spend money.:) Since I would bet the majority of MINI owners have never driven their car at 10/10s, and it would be crazy to do so on the street, its pretty much pointless to worry about it. I think maybe people do it because it makes they feel better. Thats cool but in the big scheme of things, save the money.

If you were a professional race car, drag car, absolutely the lower the weight the better. But for the street. Waste of money (IMO).

Can't compare bicycles and cars?

Yeah, mass cares whether it's in a MINI or not. Gravitational force changes when you have the right name tag on. The basic laws of physics change depending on whether you have two wheels or four.

Actually, scale models are good for lots of things.

No, but the weight may be the "make or break" factor in whether someone decides that they want to purchase "those gorgeous wheels".

The "I'd buy them if they weren't so heavy" comments come from the fact that there are a lot of choices out there for wheels that someone might think look good. If you're spending the money, and you would prefer lighter weight, then why not hold out for some lighter wheels?

Cost also is a factor. *Generally* speaking, seriously lighter wheels tend to be more expensive.

To paraphrase the old axiom: "You can get good looks, low cost, light weight. Pick two."

Missing the point. 2 lbs. of weight loss on a 14 lb bike is way more noticeable than 20 lbs on a 3000 lb car. So, no need for the sarcasm.

It is great :) Really, there is no comparing the Mercedes to the Mini in this regard - big HP and rear wheel drive is a whole different beast and the results are as different as the cars. I didn't bother changing out the wheels on M Coupe for the same reason, the effect on the street is negligible when you have grunt and the rear wheels pushing you. On the other hand with the Mini's smaller displacement and power pulling you around with the same wheels that steer the car it is a whole other story. Then the differences in braking is another issue as well.

The lack of HP aside, I think his point is ... what's the point? Your not professionally racing. I really doubt many people ever see 10/10s. So a few more HP? What's the point? (other than spending $$).

I don't need to be professionally racing to be able to enjoy the clear improvements I feel. As I said, it improved the car in braking and responsiveness in response to the question - do I have to somehow justify liking the car feeling better to drive? It was an improvement to the handling of the car, simple as that, and no spending $$ is not the point :roll: