FSD's on Lenny D today...
 

FWIW... Had a set of Koni FSD dampers installed today along with a sway bar. Haven't had much drive time since BUT the difference is terrific. Bumps, ruts, potholes and all the other uneven surfaces that plague the roads around me are just so much more civilized. No jarring reactions from the S now at all. Much more of a controlled reaction now, the harsh response is gone. Just what I'd hoped for. Coupled with the sway-bar upgrade, the one sweeping U I like up in Aventura was a hoot! The car just tracked level, no lean or wander at all. So far I'd have to say, I'm more then pleased.

The sway bar I believe to be a 19mm but it was a used piece the installer had parted out from another Mini he owned, so I don't know the brand. Its on the middle hole of the three.

Cost of the upgrade was $1,225, parts & labor. I used a place in Pompano, Redline Performance, although the Koni's were from TireRack. Redline was great and got the job done within 6 hours of me dropping it off, including having them swap the pulley out (extra cost) too. Their 30 miles from me, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

FSDs
 

Are you still on runflats or have you gone to an aftermarket wheel/tire combo?

I concur - I had FSDs put on ELO, my `05 MCS, today - it was the only change I made, so perhaps I can add a bit of detail in comparing. I already have a 22mm rear sway bar set on the softest setting, and very lightweight 15" wheels/tires.

I noticed four things on my local twisty bumpy roads:

- Bumps and potholes are a LOT less intrusive - you are still aware of tar joints and ripples, but the seat no longer slaps you and bounces you around. If you have a lady friend or wife, she will love the change - it's a lot more civilized ride.

- The damping rates on long-period changes are somewhat higher: less body roll, and less pitch forward and squat aft on braking and acceleration. This is noticable as more controlled corner entry. Also, if you hit a dip during a corner, the sensation of pitch forward and then bounce after, with loss of wheel contact, is greatly lessened. If I had to pick a number, I'd guess that the damping rates are about 30-40% higher than stock MCS.

- The softer short-frequency bump-damping contributes substantially to sticking better in curves. There is much less skipping across the tops of bumps and ripples, and the tires are plainly in more constant contact with the pavement - cornering feels a lot less loosey-goosey on real roads.

- The completely unexpected benefit is a small but significant reduction in road noise on our local pebble-surfaced highways, which are normally very loud. In Oregon, as in many mountainous areas, studded snow tires are legal, and they seem to remove all the filler between the gravel, leaving very loud frozen-gravel-like roads. I'd guess that this FSD's cut this racket by almost one-quarter. I think that this tells me that some of the road-roar is coming from irregularities that are within the FSD's capabilities to respond - perhaps in the 5-15Hz range when driving on the road at 60.

Overall, it is well worth the cost of just under $800 installed. For a street-driven car, it makes a bigger improvement than a rear bar, IMHO. For anyone who still uses stock wheels and tires, it would transform the Mini into a comfortable long-distance ride. These should also be great shocks for autocross.

Thanks for the review guys, this definitely sound like a very worthwhile mod. However, on my SS suspension with 15" tires, the ride isn't offensively hard, so for the best bang of my buck I guess I'll wait til the car is past 50000km or so, when the stock dampers are starting to get worn out.

psionic:

I'm on 15x7" rims, with 205x55x15 Michelin PE's, which I run at 35 lbs cold pressure. My comments on the FSD's are relative to these as a baseline. I think that the shocks made as much difference as switching to these non-runflats at 29 lbs/corner.

The ride is considerably better. However, they also transform so many other aspects as OldRick pointed out. I thoroughly enjoyed my MCS before. Now I'm blown away with its handling. If MINI was smart they'd put these things on as stock. Dunlop, Goodyear, Pirelli and Bridgestone would sell a lot more runflats to MINI customers if they did. People would say, "What harsh ride?"

Agreed - they ought to be OE. If they were. no-one would be griping about the MINI ride.

Pireli Euphoria's runflats. I did move up to some Avus wheels 17x7 with offset of 40. I'll get around better tires but still have way too much tread left. Just too $HEAP to throw away tires. I actually have had worse tires on cars then these. They aren't that noisy and have decent enough grip.

You might be onto something here. Driving more today made really clear that the difference is huge, just so much better then it was before. I've run-flats still.

I'll join the chorus of praises for the FSD. Before installing the FSDs, I thought the ride was rough but acceptable on my 15x7 SSRs with 205/55-15 tires. Although I didn't mind, the MINI is our (only) family car, and I wanted to improve the ride for my family and other passengers. However I didn't want to compromise handling, and the FSDs seemed to be a solution.

The effect of the FSDs was very immediate and obvious, even with my 15" wheels and non-runflats. The car still handles like it has a stiff suspension but small jarring bumps are smoothed out. I think it is safe to say that MINI has an uncommonly harsh ride for a stock car (enough to be unacceptable for some would-be buyers). The FSDs give it a ride like a "normal" stock sporty car, yet handling actually improves because the tires are keeping better contact with the ground in real-world conditions (i.e. bumpy surfaces).

Ok ok, stop all the posts praising the FSD. How am I going to sleep well at night now thinking about it :)

What about initial turn in, and body roll? I guess the FSD is smart enough to tighten up in those situations?

It flatens those out considerably. I also added a H&R 19mm sway bar at the same time and I can honestly say the car doesn't roll at all and certainly doesn't dip into corners, like it use to. It's flat from turn in to apex, and very confidence inspiring.

Yes, it is the whole point of Koni's "Frequency Selective Damping" that quick motions such as bumps are absorbed, but it resists constant pressure such as turns and rolls.

The only downside I see is for people who want lowered cars. The FSD is designed for stock height springs.

I'm a function over form guy, not the other way around. From my perspective, there's zero functional reason to lower a MCS with FSDs, unless you like creeping over speed bumps and want to stiffen the already taut ride. Makes no sense to me. I do know of many who are using FSDs with mild lowering springs. Here again, no need, only ups the cost of the mod for the price of the springs and alignment/camber adjustment, and virtually gains you nothing in measured performance. To each their own though.

This is good news. I lost what I feel to be similiar benefits when I moved from my early 03 MCS, old stiff shock, to my current 06 MCS. The pitch forward and bounce after is the exact problem I'm having and now I know what the fix is. Thanks, OldRick.

Now to figure out how to put more money into the MINI without getting my wife upset at me. :o :wink: :lol:

Just tell her she looks thin in the MINI :thumbsup:

My MCS is pushing 60,000 miles.How much life should be left in my original shocks? How does the price of the FSDs compare to factory replacements?

It really depends on your road condition, how hard you drive, how often you carry heavy stuff or passengers in your MINI. I say, 60,000 miles the shocks should start to feel a little tired. Usually a simple test would be to push your car down and see how many times it bounces, but the MINI's springs are quite stiff, so this test doesn't work as well as on other cars. What about when you go over speed bumps, when your MINI comes down from one, does it give you a little bounce?

(A brand new Mini would, go up over the speed bump, come down, hit the ground, compresses a little, come back up, and thats the end of the suspension's motion. If your shocks are worn out, they would go over the bump, hit the ground, compresses, come back up but overshoot a little, then come back down again.)

As for pricing, if you get the replacement shocks from the dealership you might as well get the FSD. Unless you're buying the stock shocks second hand, they won't be anything less than $400 USD. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't go with the FSD in that case.

Low mileage OEM shocks regularly turn up on the NAM Marketplace at very good prices, usually from people who are lowering their suspension.

FSDs would be hard to justify on price alone, unless you are comparing with new OEM shocks & installation at a MINI dealer. You should consider FSDs as how much you are willing to spend for an enhancement.

You could replace with stock shocks cheaper probably. OR you can transform your ride totally with these FSD's. No idea what list is on OEM shocks but you'll still have the same ride. Very worthwhile ESPECIALLY if your ready for new dampers anyway as the labor is exactly the same.

I am really interested in the Koni FSDs for my 2005 MCS. But I'm also interested in the H-Sport progressive rate springs, not so much for the lowering but for the fact that in my experience they provide better handling and a more comfortable ride on the street (a friend has them installed on his MCS). And I'm also interested in a 22mm rear anti-sway bar. I've already replaced the run-flats with Goodrich G-Sports, which made everything better.

I don't understand is why the FSDs aren't supposed to be used with lowering springs. They're direct replacements for stock shock absorbers - which can be used with lowered springs (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). So why won't they work?

And as a side question, if one was choosing between H-Sports and Koni FSDs with the goal of improving ride and handling on the street what's the best way to go - and should a 22mm antisway bar be used with either of these?

/gary

From what I've gathered, the FSDs are not recommended for lowering applications because you could damage them if you bottom out.

Personally I believe that one should not mix and match dampers and springs. Each spring has its own rate and characteristics and should be used with a matched set of dampers. Yeah, lots of lowering springs claim to work with stock dampers, but you won't get optimal damping, on top of that you'll wear out the stock dampers a lot quicker. So in the end you'll have a better ride/handling car for maybe a year, and the ride will just degrade slowly, until one day you realize the car is "loose" or "bouncy".

Remember, if the springs lowers your car, that means one or more of the following:

1. Spring is shorter
2. Spring is non linear
3. Spring is stiffer

Springs which are progressive will have close to stock spring rate until you corner aggressively, the stock dampers will be working overtime at those times, and not give you the best damping rate for best road contact.

The stiffer springs (say, linear and shorter ones) will just always make the damper work overtime, so they wear out even quicker.

Personally, I think if you're looking for better ride and handling, go for the FSD. If you're REALLY hardcore about performance and want to maintain some ride comfort, try coilovers like the Bilstein PSS9. Unless you track the car, the FSD seems like the best choice. I'm willing to bet that on normal streets with its bumps and potholes, a FSD equipped car will always out perform one with lowering springs + stock dampers in terms of performance. Its not just about cornering flat, its about maintaining road contact and grip.

As for rear sway bar, a 19mm or 22mm for a Cooper S would be a good choice. Since the sway bar is relatively easy to install, I think it is best if you get springs/coilover/FSD first, see how you like the handling (if there are still too much understeer), then get the rear sway bar if you need it.

For street use, I think that the FSD's will give you more benefit than the springs, in both ride and handling.

I've got stock springs with my FSD's and a 22mm Mini-Madness sway bar on the soft setting. If you want an even more neutral setting, try the middle of the three settings. For track use, use the hardest.

IMHO, the Mini-Madness bar is greatly superior to others: it has three settings, forged bar-ends, and high-quality bushings that are unlikely to ever squeak.

Old Rick,

Are you saying the the 22mm rear bar on it's softest setting still has some understear with the FSD's? Did you find that to be the same with the stock shocks as well? I am deciding between 19 & 22, want to get some more turn in, but still be 100% safe in bad weather or if i hand the keys over to someone.

thank you!

-jac

I have an rspeed 22 on ss+ suspension. If I had it to do again I would go with a 19. The 22 on soft on the track is nice. I have tried it in the middle setting on the track and it's really loose at high speed. Stiffer setting will get good rotation at slower speeds, but at 90+ mph that's not necessarily a good thing.

Right now I leave my 22 at soft all the time and it works great.