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Ok, thinking I want to move to coilovers, up from my current setup of OE sports suspension struts plus NM springs. As I understand the situation, a lowering spring greatly reduces available suspension travel, and since coilovers have a shorter shock body, so the shaft travel isn't reduced. Sounds good to me.
Trying to stay on a budget. Keeping an eye out for anything in good used condition as well (PM me if you have something). But want to stick with a reputable brand. Avoiding BR, Forge... anything that seems too good to be true... is.
Was thinking of KW v1, until I noticed the ST kit. Says it's made (or designed by?) KW. Are they made in Germany? Are KW? A few small differences make it less expensive, but it sounds like the same performance would be there. Everyone seems to love the JCW and v1 setups, so this seems like my best bet right now. Anyone tried ST yet?
Noticed that Bilstein is only a little more expensive... a great name, for sure. Anyone have experience? I know you need spacers in the front, but I have them already. Not an issue.
And then there is H&R. Another good name, although the consensus on their lowering springs seems to be that they are too harsh- I think because they are linear. Price is a little more, so that's a downer. But if someone can tell me they are the most amazing thing ever... I'd want to know that.
Bumping this because I have the same exact question, and budget. JL did you end up getting anything? I was leaning towards koni yellows but I dont want a drop and there does not seem to be a combo with them that doesnt drop it too.
Hey, finally someone replied to the thread! That's what I get for putting it in the Suspension forum, which is nearly empty... ><
No, haven't made a purchase yet. Planning to wait and see if there's a great deal on black friday. But right now the ST kit as at the top of my list. Seems like the best bang for the buck- same design as the OEM JCW kit, but like $400-500 less.
I kinda forgot about Konis... I loved them on my old Integra years ago. Those had a movable spring perch for lowering, which I guess the F56 ones don't have? Dunno. Oh though I seem to recall that if you order from Koni, you can get the extra grooves, or even a shortened body. I believe the off-the-shelf yellows are stock length- probably why they were a favorite for auto-cross. Again, I like the ST because I know that it has a shortened body, since I know I'm going lower (check the JCW unboxing thread).
If you want to stay at stock height, Koni with the factory Sport Suspension springs would probably be a great choice. I'm sure there are a bunch of those springs floating around that people have removed... I'd offer mine, but holding onto them to theoretically go back to stock whenever I move on from this car.
Oh the other thing that keeps me from getting Koni or really anything adjustable is that I guess you can't access the top of the rear shocks with them installed (except bilstein). Maybe if you cut a hole in the plastic panel? Haven't looked. But I always found that I'd leave the fronts set, and just crank up the rears for canyons or auto crossing. If I get something adjustable I'm sure I'll waste too much time obsessing with getting it perfect, haha.
But why not just run ST / KW v1 / JCW at a higher height? Pretty sure the highest setting is stock, or within 1/2 inch or something. Again, check that unboxing thread, I think he put all that good info in there.
Remember that with COs, many of the mid-price units do not have adjustable front camber plates built in. You will also need adjustable rear control arms and end links. Megan and BC are lower priced but do have camber plates.
There is allot of discussion on COs and shocks/springs in the Gen1 Suspension area. Thinking that allot of the discussions would still hold true on the Gen3.
And yes, I am also in the process of updating my suspension but the trouble I have is that my vert is heavier in the back and only the factory has springs that really compensate correctly for the issue. I am leaning toward Koni Yellows with my stock springs.
A MINI is a great handling car and IMO allot of people that go to COs do not have the driving skills to take proper advantage. I have seen a R50 Justa do very very well on twisties when driven by a NASCAR Stig (Carolina based and drives the car in commercials so that the Big Money driver is not being paid). I also have a good friend with a Gen1 that is very good driver with just lowered springs, a pulley and a custom exhaust but is able to keep up with both Gen2 and Gen3 cars that have lots of more torque and in some instances lots more HP.
I don't think more alignment adjustment is needed in most cases. If anything, people adding that stuff are looking for more camber, because they are actually on the track. I've been driving my car with 1" lower NM springs for a couple years, and happy with the height. I'd set my coilovers to the exact same. Also- my top choice, ST, is based on the factory JCW kit. I'd say if it's good enough for MINI to approve it, that's good enough for me. OEMs are usually very timid about something like adjustable suspension putting alignment out of a safe range. So I'm not concerned.
I think that simple, non-adjustable is great for me, and most people on the street. You're right, anything more fancy and adjustable, people are likely to make it worse. But if you just want a more sporty drive, and lowered car... a setup with a shorter shock body is the way to go. Doesn't really matter if it's coilovers, or springs + shocks. But coilovers have the shorter body, so should be better in several ways.
Yep, ST Suspension is 10% off at ECS for black friday. Plus $50 gift card (maybe some decent brake pads next). Pulled the trigger. Comes out to about half the price of the JCW Pro kit. Can't beat that! Can't wait to get them here and IN.
Dont forget that some of those suspension options are now on sale. AST suspension and Moton suspension are new on our site and on sale at 10% off/free ship. They dont go on sale and this is one of the rare times.
Thanks for the order. And sorry i just saw this. Let us know how you like them.
Ok, happy to update this thread with the results! Making a point to stop procrastinating, partly because ECS again has 10% off going on ST.
Once my order was placed, it took like 2 weeks for them to come off backorder. But once they were available, they arrived at my door from Germany in 2 days. Impressed!
I went for the install myself. Probably a cake walk for anyone that's done MINI or BMW suspension before, but this was my first time. Main challenge was removing top nuts from struts that had been previously worked on by a local shop. Detailed notes in the post I added to this thread below. In short- there is a special tool or two needed, so make sure you have them beforehand. I didn't bother to cut the OEM dust boot in front, as instructed. It fits fine over the ST boot, no idea why it would need cutting. More boots must mean less dust, right?
Well-packed, if utilitarian. Adjusting wrench unceremoniously taped to bottom of box. Oh well, kept it all safe. Box is nicely marked as made by KW in Germany.
Aluminum rear adjusters. No set screw. Seems weird to me, but I guess they're not needed. I'd feel better if one was there, but I guess it would just mess up the threads.
Plastic front collar. Had me concerned as well... but noticed that all KWs use the same part. Ok then. Less noise, less friction on springs, no stuck threads... so why not use on the back too? Some German engineer knows the reason. Or accountant.
Before pic, with NM springs. Wish I had remembered to remember to measure beforehand...
After pic. Actually I went up 2 turns in the rear later. Rear is probably same height or slightly lower than NM. Front is certainly a bit lower. I'm exactly at KW's recommended minimum wheel-center-to-fender measurement. But about .25" higher than their strut-bottom-to-spring measurement.
A view of the rear spring in place. Jealous about the nice rubber isolators in the JCW Pro kit, and concerned about possible noise from metal-on-metal, I added some spring isolators. Got something called thrust sheets made by Swift. They are just teflon plastic sheets, doing the job of a thrust bearing- lowering friction so the spring can rotate freely as it does its thing. Also had ordered some other isolators, which I was hoping would be rubbery, but were just a hard plastic. Threw them on anyway. Bilstein makes the same thing for under a $1 each, I think, so I should have just ordered theirs. I have no noise. Don't know if I would have otherwise, but didn't want to have to assemble twice.
Final height.
Ok, the ride. Well, they're stiff. If OEM suspension is a 4, the Sports Suspension option is a 5, NM springs a 6... ST are an 8 to me. Maybe 8.5. Any stiffer I would have removed them immediately. BUT the car corners very, very flat. Handling is certainly kicked up a notch. Isolation of road texture is still pretty good- feel a very slight rumbling over coarse asphalt. Guessing the extra rubber isolation in the JCW Pro kit smooths that a bit. I would really hesitate to drive more than an hour in this car though. On the other hand, really look forward to hitting the canyons in anger... haven't had a chance yet. I haven't yet touched the bump stops, I think, which was an annoyance with the NMs. Though my bumps were cut as instructed, I'd cringe going over big freeway jounces. Now it's just very stiff, but no *wham*.
Little bit of spotty tech info. Tried to calculate spring rates for my OEM Sport, NM, and ST, but spotty because I have a hard time counting the number of coils in the springs. The first coil that still touches the mount doesn't count? So it's 2 in front? 3? 2.5? Looks like some coils in the rear of NM might be dead coils, but how many? Didn't think to try and check while it was installed. Was trying to use this calculator:
Given that coil count isn't exact... not going to write the probably-wrong results here. But, I think an insightful nugget is the wire diameter, which is, in mm:
Seems to bear out what I felt by the seat of the pants. I know there are other factors in spring rate, but this seems like a clear reference point.
Overall- highly recommended, if you're ready to take things to the next level. I think for the price, you can't go wrong, as long as you like a firm ride.
Hi, interesting stuff so far. I can add some input on a Bilstein coilover PSS kit with aftermarket revalve by FCM for solo.
I got the specially machined seats from FCM to accept stock springs on the front shocks because I ran in a SCCA street (stock) class. I put the Bilstein PSS kit higher rate springs and their adjustable seats aside since I wanted to stay in a street (stock) class
The shocks were probably an even more significant improvement in reduced lap times, increased fun to drive both street and solo, as well as just plain quicker steering input responsiveness than the addition of a large aftermarket rear sway bar was.
The FCM revalve had the optional ripple control for more compliance and grip along with the increased low shaft speed damping.
The car then became much faster in a slalom-- no more windmilling the arms while the car rolled before responding. People who watched me said the car looked like an STX class car rather than a D-Street car in a slalom.
Last edited by B17overhead; 03-09-2018 at 09:20 AM.
Cool- never knew about FCM. Read up on their page, looks really interesting. A little confused by their costs though- what was your total? Or minus the custom spring perch.
Expensive, but included cost of hardware as well as the math analysis and re-valve work. About $4500 total. The ripple control added quite a bit, so if one were to buy the basic low velocity re-valve and shocks it might be about 3.75- $4k. One thing that makes the MINI 3G cars a little more expensive is that Bilstein doesn't make a less expensive shock package for it yet to revalve. The PSS is rather top of the line with adjustments for spring height and springs included. I'm guessing that adds about $500 or more.
The street ride is pretty good, not much different from the stock shocks. It can take large potholes, cattle guards, speed bumps without quite as much serious chassis disruption- better than shock shocks.
The most noticeable upside difference is that the car is the incredible responsive steering input now. Not twitchy, but when you really yank the steering wheel, the car changes direction instead of the result being a combo of rolling and changing direction. Just driving around easy, one finds themselves intentionally yanking the wheel hard just turning 90 degrees from a stop sign on a city street to experience the responsiveness.
The only slight downside I noticed on the street ride was that on some surfaces and speeds (rough open texture asphalt at 50 mph down in Tombstone area of AZ) the car seems to pick up a little "graininess" or low level vibration through the shocks. It's not there at 60 to 85 on the freeway.
I haven't decided yet on a price for my barely used package (about 1.5k street miles and 2 autocrosses) I took off my 2015 Cooper S before selling the car, but it would probably be a discount from the $4500 I paid.
11-01-2017, 05:58 PM
