Suspension If you want camber plates, post in this thread
#51
02-03-2020, 11:15 AM
#53
02-03-2020, 11:47 AM
I found out the silver project camber plates and the comp brake ones
The silver project look a little thinner and I wounder how does two compare in effective thickness and effective ride height compared to the AST ones...
I don t have a lot of space available to lower the car by the coilover as the adjustment collar on the strut is already mm close to the tyre and would not want those camberplates to take more space and so make the car higher
The silver project look a little thinner and I wounder how does two compare in effective thickness and effective ride height compared to the AST ones...
I don t have a lot of space available to lower the car by the coilover as the adjustment collar on the strut is already mm close to the tyre and would not want those camberplates to take more space and so make the car higher
#54
02-03-2020, 11:54 AM
I have the camber adjustable ones but not fitted yet
Did they move and not keep the adjustment? Do you know if they then changed the design?
Thanks
#55
02-03-2020, 12:09 PM
Hi
I Installed on a MINI JCW F56 some AST 5100 coilovers with their camber adjustable top mounts and some NW engineering RSe12 7.5x18 ET40 wheels with 225/40R18 Michelin pilot sport 2 tyres
I lowered the car a little and adjusted the camber at around - 2.3 degrees all around with about oem spec toe settings (toe in)
The good thing is that ast coilovers are firm and nice and that even if the front tire is only mm close to the coilover adjustment collar if the car is a little lowered the 225/40r18 almost never touch or rub anything with those wheel spec
The not so good even if expected downside is that with the different offset, changed scrub radius, and more camber the steering feel is a little worse and will want to follow the road imperfection or react to torque steer more.
I also used a bit more toe in front but that did not make things really better.
I noticed that POWERFLEX and others make MINI specific CASTER offset front lower arm bushings, and that NITRON revised their adjustable top mounts design so that when adding camber it will also increase caster.
If they bother to that for the MINI I think that for some reason or because of suspension geometry the MINI will work better with more caster.
Does anyone know if on the Mini F56 adding camber from the top mounts ( with camber adjustment normally oriented towards the inside of the car as on other cars ) would at the same time reduce caster?
For the moment I ordered and will install some POWERFLEX caster offset bushings that should add some caster and eventually I will remove some front camber.
I m also considering to change the top mounts for some that can have the caster adjusted as compbrake ones but does anyone know if they would change the height of the car compared to the ast ones?
Anyone know the usual bolt thread type for ast coilovers?
Thanks
I Installed on a MINI JCW F56 some AST 5100 coilovers with their camber adjustable top mounts and some NW engineering RSe12 7.5x18 ET40 wheels with 225/40R18 Michelin pilot sport 2 tyres
I lowered the car a little and adjusted the camber at around - 2.3 degrees all around with about oem spec toe settings (toe in)
The good thing is that ast coilovers are firm and nice and that even if the front tire is only mm close to the coilover adjustment collar if the car is a little lowered the 225/40r18 almost never touch or rub anything with those wheel spec
The not so good even if expected downside is that with the different offset, changed scrub radius, and more camber the steering feel is a little worse and will want to follow the road imperfection or react to torque steer more.
I also used a bit more toe in front but that did not make things really better.
I noticed that POWERFLEX and others make MINI specific CASTER offset front lower arm bushings, and that NITRON revised their adjustable top mounts design so that when adding camber it will also increase caster.
If they bother to that for the MINI I think that for some reason or because of suspension geometry the MINI will work better with more caster.
Does anyone know if on the Mini F56 adding camber from the top mounts ( with camber adjustment normally oriented towards the inside of the car as on other cars ) would at the same time reduce caster?
For the moment I ordered and will install some POWERFLEX caster offset bushings that should add some caster and eventually I will remove some front camber.
I m also considering to change the top mounts for some that can have the caster adjusted as compbrake ones but does anyone know if they would change the height of the car compared to the ast ones?
Anyone know the usual bolt thread type for ast coilovers?
Thanks
I have not yet tried the KMAC plates, but intend to and plan to add some caster with them along with what ever camber I can get. I will post back when I do (may be a while as I don’t want warrantee issues). I only know of one person who added caster to their MINI and he did autocross and was really good at it. I think his reaction was something like “fantastic” improvement.
#56
02-03-2020, 12:25 PM
I have the Powerflex camber bushings. They haven't slipped, that I know of. I think I would do KMAC if I was to do it over again. I was trying to save a buck, but with the cost to press out the stock bushings, it wasn't that far off, even though I did the labor myself. And it was some labor indeed- really hard to get at some of those bolts just using jack stands. On a lift with air tools, probably not bad. Adjusting is a total pain too- I don't believe it can be done while assembled, there just isn't room for the wrench to get in there and make a turn. To adjust, I found it worked to remove the ball joint on the knuckle, and move the entire arm the direction you want to go, then tighten. You're just eyeballing it though, and won't know until you get it on a rack.
They also make a popping sound when parking. They also ride fairly rough, though they have smoothed out a lot after 10k miles. And I don't know how the camber plates ride for comparison. They also push the wheel out pretty far, maybe 20mm at the bottom and 10mm at the top. If you're just barely not rubbing the inner fender, well you're gonna now. Camber plates will have the opposite effect- shouldn't introduce any rubbing, but you might want to add a spacer to get more flush look with fender.
So... Yeah I'm mildly interested in adding those caster bushings, because it looks fairly simple. But If I didn't already have the camber bushings, KMAC for sure.
They also make a popping sound when parking. They also ride fairly rough, though they have smoothed out a lot after 10k miles. And I don't know how the camber plates ride for comparison. They also push the wheel out pretty far, maybe 20mm at the bottom and 10mm at the top. If you're just barely not rubbing the inner fender, well you're gonna now. Camber plates will have the opposite effect- shouldn't introduce any rubbing, but you might want to add a spacer to get more flush look with fender.
So... Yeah I'm mildly interested in adding those caster bushings, because it looks fairly simple. But If I didn't already have the camber bushings, KMAC for sure.
#57
02-03-2020, 02:35 PM
Does anyone know what kind of work is required to fit those powerflex caster offset bushings?
Is there a way to fit them without removing the subframe?
Any pics or instructions?
I will then probably not fir the powerflex camber bushings for the moment as I can get good camber with the camber plates
But I want to get more caster and I would like to fit the powerflex caster offset bushings and if more caster is required maybe just change the ast camber plates for some others with adjustable caster
Is there a way to fit them without removing the subframe?
Any pics or instructions?
I will then probably not fir the powerflex camber bushings for the moment as I can get good camber with the camber plates
But I want to get more caster and I would like to fit the powerflex caster offset bushings and if more caster is required maybe just change the ast camber plates for some others with adjustable caster
#58
02-03-2020, 02:56 PM
From their site:
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product...compressed.pdf
Their instructions are pretty terrible. Doesn't mention what you have to do to get to the point of pressing bushings! Wonder if you need a shop press to get the sleeves in, or a vise would do... Guessing press.
No need to remove subframe. But you will need to remove the A-arms to get the OEM bushings off. Oh, and you'll need to have the OEM bushings pressed out of the rear carriers. I had to take mine to a speciality auto supply house (Under Car Inc., a few in LA area)- regular mechanic didn't have proper attachments for his press. They charged $25 per bushing removed.
So... yeah might not be worth the trouble over camber plates.
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product...compressed.pdf
Their instructions are pretty terrible. Doesn't mention what you have to do to get to the point of pressing bushings! Wonder if you need a shop press to get the sleeves in, or a vise would do... Guessing press.
No need to remove subframe. But you will need to remove the A-arms to get the OEM bushings off. Oh, and you'll need to have the OEM bushings pressed out of the rear carriers. I had to take mine to a speciality auto supply house (Under Car Inc., a few in LA area)- regular mechanic didn't have proper attachments for his press. They charged $25 per bushing removed.
So... yeah might not be worth the trouble over camber plates.
#59
03-01-2020, 05:47 PM
I fitted the poweflex caster offset bushings and slightly reduced the front camber to around -1.6 and that brought back the caster angle to about oem spec at 4 deg
The steering feel and straight line precision improved well as expected
I will see if it can be even better and increse the caster angle by reducing the front camber to around -1.2 and using slightly more than oem toe in or if not enough buy some caster adjustable top mounts
The steering feel and straight line precision improved well as expected
I will see if it can be even better and increse the caster angle by reducing the front camber to around -1.2 and using slightly more than oem toe in or if not enough buy some caster adjustable top mounts
#60
03-13-2020, 09:31 AM
#61
12-16-2023, 07:49 AM
Bump. Suppose all you care about is gaining the ability to adjust front camber -- stock setup otherwise, no lowering etc. What's the most cost-effective approach and option here?
The shop I trust, which does work from daily driver to track/racing (including MINIs!) and is well-regarded (I've been with them for over a decade -- nobody touches my wheels/tires/suspension except for them and me) has advised that front camber plates would provide flexibility in dealing with some alignment concerns. What I'm wondering the most is whether one *really* has to get into upgrading the whole suspension (move to coilovers, etc) to get a set of those camber plates in place. I'm not specifically opposed to doing a bigger upgrade, but I'm wanting to deal with the front camber plates as a standalone task if at all possible. Right now my F56S is a daily driver. Getting fancy will come "later"
Also interested in any thoughts on the Silver Project camber plate offering, since they are kind of alarmingly low-cost compared to the Vorshlag (my shop recommended the Vorshlag, and they have no vested interest as they don't sell this stuff). Context is again simply and strictly wanting to get some additional control over front camber.
Thx for any input!
The shop I trust, which does work from daily driver to track/racing (including MINIs!) and is well-regarded (I've been with them for over a decade -- nobody touches my wheels/tires/suspension except for them and me) has advised that front camber plates would provide flexibility in dealing with some alignment concerns. What I'm wondering the most is whether one *really* has to get into upgrading the whole suspension (move to coilovers, etc) to get a set of those camber plates in place. I'm not specifically opposed to doing a bigger upgrade, but I'm wanting to deal with the front camber plates as a standalone task if at all possible. Right now my F56S is a daily driver. Getting fancy will come "later"
Also interested in any thoughts on the Silver Project camber plate offering, since they are kind of alarmingly low-cost compared to the Vorshlag (my shop recommended the Vorshlag, and they have no vested interest as they don't sell this stuff). Context is again simply and strictly wanting to get some additional control over front camber.
Thx for any input!
#62
12-16-2023, 11:14 AM
There are camberplates made for otherwise pure stock suspensions. Look for something that says “street” use and check that they will accommodate the stock springs. They will then be basically a direct replace for what is in the car now. The Vorshlag are aimed more towards racing. While they will do the job, I think you will find the ride to be firmer (harsh? Don’t know) as they appear to not have any rubber or urethane around the bearing.
If you are only looking for small adjustments, have you considered the PowerFlex camber bushings? For the street that might be a better/easier option than camber plates. There is a bit of discussion about them in prior posts to this thread. Also, if you decide to further upgrade your suspension later on, then these can stay in place.
If you are only looking for small adjustments, have you considered the PowerFlex camber bushings? For the street that might be a better/easier option than camber plates. There is a bit of discussion about them in prior posts to this thread. Also, if you decide to further upgrade your suspension later on, then these can stay in place.
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cjv2 (12-22-2023)
#64
12-18-2023, 05:39 AM
Bump. Suppose all you care about is gaining the ability to adjust front camber -- stock setup otherwise, no lowering etc. What's the most cost-effective approach and option here?
The shop I trust, which does work from daily driver to track/racing (including MINIs!) and is well-regarded (I've been with them for over a decade -- nobody touches my wheels/tires/suspension except for them and me) has advised that front camber plates would provide flexibility in dealing with some alignment concerns. What I'm wondering the most is whether one *really* has to get into upgrading the whole suspension (move to coilovers, etc) to get a set of those camber plates in place. I'm not specifically opposed to doing a bigger upgrade, but I'm wanting to deal with the front camber plates as a standalone task if at all possible. Right now my F56S is a daily driver. Getting fancy will come "later"
Also interested in any thoughts on the Silver Project camber plate offering, since they are kind of alarmingly low-cost compared to the Vorshlag (my shop recommended the Vorshlag, and they have no vested interest as they don't sell this stuff). Context is again simply and strictly wanting to get some additional control over front camber.
Thx for any input!
The shop I trust, which does work from daily driver to track/racing (including MINIs!) and is well-regarded (I've been with them for over a decade -- nobody touches my wheels/tires/suspension except for them and me) has advised that front camber plates would provide flexibility in dealing with some alignment concerns. What I'm wondering the most is whether one *really* has to get into upgrading the whole suspension (move to coilovers, etc) to get a set of those camber plates in place. I'm not specifically opposed to doing a bigger upgrade, but I'm wanting to deal with the front camber plates as a standalone task if at all possible. Right now my F56S is a daily driver. Getting fancy will come "later"
Also interested in any thoughts on the Silver Project camber plate offering, since they are kind of alarmingly low-cost compared to the Vorshlag (my shop recommended the Vorshlag, and they have no vested interest as they don't sell this stuff). Context is again simply and strictly wanting to get some additional control over front camber.
Thx for any input!
Get the Vorshlags, if you don't you'll wish you had. Any problems you can call/email and they get right back to you. As they say, buy once, cry once
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cjv2 (12-22-2023)
#65
12-22-2023, 01:42 PM
There are camberplates made for otherwise pure stock suspensions. Look for something that says “street” use and check that they will accommodate the stock springs. They will then be basically a direct replace for what is in the car now. The Vorshlag are aimed more towards racing. While they will do the job, I think you will find the ride to be firmer (harsh? Don’t know) as they appear to not have any rubber or urethane around the bearing.
If you are only looking for small adjustments, have you considered the PowerFlex camber bushings? For the street that might be a better/easier option than camber plates. There is a bit of discussion about them in prior posts to this thread. Also, if you decide to further upgrade your suspension later on, then these can stay in place.
If you are only looking for small adjustments, have you considered the PowerFlex camber bushings? For the street that might be a better/easier option than camber plates. There is a bit of discussion about them in prior posts to this thread. Also, if you decide to further upgrade your suspension later on, then these can stay in place.
As to "small" adjustments, that's a fair question -- while my alignment-handling shop has been explicit that their hands are tied by the non-adjustable front camber without a mod that will allow adjustment, they haven't indicated how much they might want to fiddle.
#66
12-22-2023, 02:11 PM
I don't have any experience with camber bushings, so I have some re-reading of the thread and technical research to do. Sounds like an interesting option.
As to "small" adjustments, that's a fair question -- while my alignment-handling shop has been explicit that their hands are tied by the non-adjustable front camber without a mod that will allow adjustment, they haven't indicated how much they might want to fiddle.
As to "small" adjustments, that's a fair question -- while my alignment-handling shop has been explicit that their hands are tied by the non-adjustable front camber without a mod that will allow adjustment, they haven't indicated how much they might want to fiddle.
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cjv2 (12-22-2023)
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