More rear swaybar setting discussion - how loose of a rear is too loose?
 

I had an Evolution driving school this past weekend. It was a blast and was extremely helpful. Can't wait for this season. I am running the JCW suspension with an H-sport Rear competition swaybar. I have it set on the medium setting. Tires for autocross are the Dunlop ZII's on Enkei RPF1 wheels. Up front I have the free camber mod with -.9 degrees on both sides.

I really liked the setup and loved the way the backend felt. However in one of the slaloms I did spin the rear end around and I had know idea it was going to happen. However, it was only the 2nd or 3rd run of the morning and it was 36 degrees out. I am sure cold temps played a part. It warmed up to 55 in the afternoon.

So I guess I am not really sure what I am asking other than when would I know if I have the swaybar set in the sweatspot? I don't think I really need to go any stiffer being that I was able to spin the car.

More front camber, less rear bar.

A gigantic rear bar with not enough front camber is not an ideal solution IMO, though it is the popular one on here.

How much negative camber might you recommend in this case?

-2 would be nice, even more if you're really into it but past that you start getting uneven wear.

The IE fixed camber plates are good for a street car since they don't really add any harshness and they're cheap. You would end up around -1.75 or so.

- andy

I always figured this, everyone jumps to a big bar fairly quickly without experiencing the smaller 19mm first. Most don't even bother with tire pressure either.


Many might find that some extra front camber might give them what they are looking for without ever having to touch/switch out the rear bar.

Just my observation and experience.

I call driver input error. There is something you did that you probably didn't notice when you were doing the slalom. Typically an abrupt throttle lift with rough steering inputs is what gets the MINI upset. I'm not trying to attack your driving just shed some insight. Most first timers, including myself at the time, get into the reptilian mindset where there isn't a lot of rational thinking while driving. The more you practice the more relaxed you'll be in a high performance driving environment and as a result be very mindful of how you're controlling the car.

You're going to get a lot of advice about needing more camber and spending more money. Ignore that for now and just focus on learning to drive smooth.

I will second Shane's opinion. My only time with my MINI on a go-kart track (think autocross with grass between the pylons), I got myself crossed-up entering a right-left-right. I abruptly got off the throttle and was not smooth on turn in, and ate some grass. I was more conscious for the rest of the day. I know I have slow reactions, and just got too anxious.

I have not adjusted my bar since then, and have not had concerns/issues since that one incident. If the rest of your track day went well, and you are comfortable with the car, continue to drive it with your bar like it is. Next track day, try stiffening it and see if you like the change.

Have fun,
Mike

I assume you mean soften here...

For sure learning to be smooth with inputs and learning the car will really help, but -0.9 degrees camber is not very much. You'll get more grip from the front and rear with a softer rear bar and more front camber. And it'll be less prone to snap-oversteer. Win-win.

- andy

That is what I did when I did my last Autocross. Pulled out of the throttle way too hard and threw the back end out. Granted I was pushing it way way too hard from the get go when I hit the slalom, it was amazing that I only spun.

What do you have the rear camber and toe at? This can play a big factor too. I've noticed that when you stiffen the rear bar up the rear end will brake away in a non linear fashion which has caught me out a couple times. The end result was to soften the rear bar and reduce my rear camber from -.7 degrees to about -.2 degrees.

Also under load the rear will toe out slightly, so if your running 0 toe in the rear when you car leans over and loads the outside the rear outside will toe out, this can also create a snap like oversteer. But some people like this because under low speed the car will rotate much more freely.

So far I'm leaning towards the softest setting on my 19mm Alta bar, 1/32" to 1/16" rear toe in, and ~-.2 rear camber. I'd leave your front camber as maxed as you can and then just start playing around till you find something that suits your style.

Cheers.