What's the deal with camber plates and "noise"?
 

In reading the pitches for several of the camber plate brands, one attribute I have seen touted is for some of the brands to make less noise (than others) or that they are as quiet as OEM.

What is the noise these ads are referring to, and which brands really are not noisy? What feature(s) of a set of camber plates cause them to be more or less noisy than others?

I think I want to install camber plates and adjustable rear control arms to tune my suspension. I want to "set it and forget it". That is, my purpose in having adjustability is not for street to track and back. I don't want to be messing around with the suspension every weekend, and I don't want adjustable coilovers. However, if I am going to go to the time and expense of messing with the camber, I think I might as well be able to set it up as I like it to begin with (okay,I might play with tire pressures from time to time:) ).

I have Koni FSDs and stock springs, and an Alta 19mm rear anti-sway bar.

I do not want to lower the car at all, unless it would be 1/2-3/4" to compensate for any increased ride height due to the camber plates. I see many brands claim not to increase ride height, so I hope I can get away without changing that. However, if plates do not increase ride height, do they reduce travel? I don't see that covered either way in any plate pitches. (Maybe it is a non-issue?)

Thanks.

Also, any personal experiences with plates (good or bad) would be much appreciated.

Hmm, I don't think its the camber plates they all talk about, belive it's the different control arms that can make noise :confused:.

I just went back to look again . One of the H-Sport ads says they don't use "noisy mono-balls". I guess my question shoudl be What is a mono-ball, and why is it noisy, because of the material used or the design?

Thanks.

not all monoballs are noisy. They may transmit more noise vibration and harshness into the car from the road because these are essentially a ball joint - metal to metal. Some may come with teflon which help keep the monoballs lubricated and cut down a wee bit of noise harhness. The direct feel you get has a trade-off - noise.

Try Ireland Engineering's non-adjustable street plates. These are set at about 1.25 degree neg and use materials more suited to strteet driving. I think Moss have a stock type strut bearing that is also set at 1.25 degree neg.

I mentioned the two above because they do not alter ride height. This is important if you do not have adjustable coilovers that are height adjustable.

Sorry to invade your thread but I was looking into the ireland street plates and I was wondering if it was okay to use those with a stock height/stock strut set-up?

Thanks, meb.

I will consider the "fixed" plates as a potential solution as well.

2nd that great question..will you still get 1.25 deg w/ stock susp.

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/St...t=products.asp

Ireland make two types of plates for adjustable coilovers and stock type struts.

In other words, you can buy adjustable plates or fixed plates for coilovers or stock type struts. From experience, you should be able to get 2.25-2.5 degree neg with coilover adjustable plates and somewhere around 2 degree neg forplates that work with stock type struts - the springs are larger in diameter so more neg camber is not possible.

The fixed plates are all around 1.25 degrees.

All the IE plates maintain a stock height - are the same height as the stock strut bearings.

Thanks again, meb. The Ireland adjustables sound like a good deal. (Coming in at about $275 instead of >$500 like some others.) Any idea why such a large difference in prices? Materials? Design? Less markup? Just curious.

I was wondering the samething. The price difference is so huge it makes me wonder how they are made.

...no, I have no idea. Don't forget to look at the plates available from Moss; these look just like stock strut bearings but with 1.25 degree neg camber dialed in...sort of like the IE fixed plates but incorporated into a stock design.

I have no experience with these, however.

Hmmm. I'll check those out right now. Thanks again, meb! You're a gem.

I have the IE adjustable plates. They have been on the car for about 7k miles. They didnt change ride height, and the max neg camber I got was 2 deg. There was a slight noise when they were new, but now are silent except at full lock.

One thing to take into account is that stock, your camber might not match left to right. If you get the adjustable plates then you can match your camber on both sides. Hopefully you didn't order already, unless matching camber doesn't matter to you.

Thanks, nabeshin. I haven't ordered anything yet.

Non-matching OEM camber IS one reason why I am interested in adjustables rather than the fixed, as I had read of at least one other MCS afflicted with side-to-side camber variance already.

Thanks much for the report on your experience with IE plates!! It is encouraging. I'm leaning toward the IE adjustables at this time. Right now, my plan is to go for those and shoot for 1.50-1.75 negative both sides.

Are you using any additional negative adjustment in the rear?

Thanks again.

You might take your car to an alignment shop and see if they can tell you what your current front camber is for each side. That would help you with determining whether the camber is even side-to-side, and how much you would want to add. I'm thinking that if you take your car to the shop where you plan to get it aligned after the suspension work, they *may* be willing to give you the readings for free or at a huge discount.

If you want to just add camber and then leave it, and you're currently even side-to-side, the fixed-type plates may do it for you, and save you a bunch of money.

I have 4 IE control arms back there, so I can have the camber I want, and the slight tow in.

One more argument for adjustable plates: Even if your camber is even side to side, over time and given enough potholes and railroad crossings, the camber won't be even. With adjustable plates, you can always have even camber.

Back to the "noise" question...

I've had the Helix plates on my Cooper for over a year. Daily driving, autocrossing, HPDE, time trials, etc.

They do not make any rattling type noises, ever.

There can be a little bit of a groan that is audible when turning the wheel at parking lot speeds. I think I have a bearing in one plate that is not 100%.

They do increase the "holy crap" crashing sound when you hit an expansion joint or other bump like that. But not a gigantic amount. And my car also has a rollbar in the back, which adds to the noise and stiffness, and poly front control arm bushings, which add to the noise and stiffness. So, my car can sound like something should be about to break when I hit a crack at speed.

The Helix plates are supremely beefy. Highly recommended. They will raise your ride height in front by maybe 1/4". That didn't bother me at all. For some people, that's the end of the world. It's up to you on that.

The Helix plates allow you to get to the adjustment bolts without cutting up your strut towers or using fancy tools. You cannot get max camber with stock springs, but at least you don't have to play games to get to the adjument hardware like you do on some plates.

Second the Helix plates. I had them put on at the same time the Koni Sport Kit suspension was put on, and WOW, what a difference. I've yet to do the rear control arms, but have the front aligment perfect now for AutoX and street driving. Since adding the plates, I have that same bit of noise at low speed, backing out of the driveway, but its barely noticeable.

Given the quality of the Helix plates, I'm looking at the Helix rear control arms to dial in the rear camber. It's a bit more negative than I'd like after the Konis went on. The guys at Network Alignment were very impressed with the quality of the Helix plates when they set the front camber.

The Helix plates DO look "beefy." The ease of adjustment would also be a plus. However, I don't expect to adjust them regularly after they get "dialed in".

The "clunking" noise factor does not sound good, though, IMO. I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if plates cause the car to clunk around. I appreciate your sharing about the noise. That's why I started this thread. I want to avoid spending hundreds to be disappointed. THANKS!!

The "ease of adjustment" thing is not really "ease of adjustment" as much as "you can install them without cutting up your strut towers".

The "clunking" is not a clunk sound like a component that is installed loosely. It's more that the whole car "crashes" over a bump. It already does that without the camber plates. Hit a crack at speed, and the car goes "crash". That sound is just a little worse with the plates. It's not the plates making noise (IMHO), it's the plates transmitting more force from the wheel / suspension to the rest of the car.

Ah-ha!
 

AAAHHHH!!:thumbsup: Noises are difficult things to convey in writing!

Thanks. I think I get it now.:)

Sound like on of the fixed units is what your looking for...
 

I've had the RDR/Helix and the Hotchkiss Comps. The RDRs raised the car a bit (because of the beefy nature), and the newere Hotchkiss Comps are noisier than the RDRs, but run a stock height. You can also get spring perches for stock, 2.5" or 2.25" ID springs, as the incorporate the spring perch as well.

I like parts of the Hotchkiss, and miss part of the RDRs. One other that I've seen is the Dinan, it's a fixed like the Ireland, but only adds about -.75 more, to about -1. I think the IE fixed ad -1.25 MORE than stock, and should get you to ~-1.75 or so.

Noise can come from several places. As you get more negative, the springs can bump into the drain channels on the strut tower. This can be addressed by running a bit less camber, rotatitng the spring, or getting out the BFH to pound the crap out of it. Or you can spend tons of money on coil overs with fixed diameter springs (not the bee-hives) but this has it's own set of issues. If you only have noise at full lock, check to see if the spring is scraping the strut tower. The other source is the type of bushing that's used.

Matt

Thanks, Doc. As usual, a VERY helpful post. That helps me better understand the potential unwanted noises.

A fixed unit might be fine IF my OEM camber is even from the factory. I have no mushrooming, but I have not had the camber measured, so I don't know if the car could benefit from adjustable plates. Another poster suggested that I should have them measured before going to the adjustables. Sensible!!

One thing that was not clear to me before reading your post was that the IE fixed plates ADD -1.25. I had thought that they delivered a NET -1.25. If my OE camber is even, then I think the IE fixed would be my better alternative. I am sure that Steve's in the SF Valley can check the current camber for me before I go and plunk down my money.

Thanks again.:nod:

This is controversial topic, if you search around. In my case, I ended up at -1.25 with the IE fixed plates. Others swear they're at -2 or more with the fixed plates, suggesting -1.25 + the factory camber.

???
 

:confused: Hmmm.

How is IE at answering questions? :sly: Sounds like it's time for a phone call to them to see if they can (and will) shed some light.

Thanks, Inimini.