This forum has been pretty quiet lately. Is anyone doing anything different for this season? How about tires? Lot's of choices this year. Anyone try the Hankooks yet? We ran the new Falkens on our freshly built '05 Cooper S and liked everything about them except for the size. 205/40-16 is just too narrow.Thinking about trying the Hankook 212s 225/45-16 shaved. (size matters)
Any thoughts?

Gerry Walsh
Otto's Motorsport
Otto's MINI
West Chester, PA

 

Several people have tested the Hankooks and the Falkens, Edge Racing, GRM, and a few individuals. Edge found the Hankook to be slightly faster from what I heard, .3 sec, but I don't know what length course that was on though they did test with a MINI and a Miata. GRM tested with a newer high performance FWD Nissian with a limited slip just this week at TR and included a few other tires in the test but results won't be published for a while. Most of the individuals testing feel that both tires require a different setup than the old Falken 215's and a fair final opinion won't be possible until the final setups can be determined but are saying both understeer more than the old 215's possibly due to either more grip or softer sidewalls.

Several people bailed on my recent tire test day and it started to rain shortly after starting so about the only thing I may have achieved was tire pressures for my new 16" wheels and tires and a good semi permanently marked course to go back and test on again in the future. May 6th is my next shot. I will be testing for best size between the 205/50/15's on 15x7.5's and 215/45/16 on 16x8's with the Azenis 215's I have now but some others are supossed to show up with the new Hankook's and Azenis and both of these are or will be available in my tested sizes.

A 225/45/16 will be a tough fit but I think it can be done. My 16x8, +42's with 215/45/16 Azenis only clear the front strut by 2 mm, so I would expect to need a spacer in front and my car is so low, -2", that I would probably need to raise the rear and maybe have to stiffen the car even more and tire to trailing arm clearance might also become an issue and require a thin spacer. My wide wheels and +42 offset are a factor front and rear so you will need to do the math for your own fit. The 225 will also be taller and the location of the front spring perch may become an issue.

Most people will be able to fit the 215/45/16's with no problem but 225/45/16's are a whole different kettle of fish when you have wide wheels and a lowered car.

 

I actually have both tires. I have a set of 215/45/16 Azenis RT-215's (brand new) mounted on 16x7 Rota Slipstreams as my autox set. And i'm picking up a set of 225/45/16 Hankook's later today to mount onto a set of Rota 16x7 GRIDS for street use.

I'll definitely post up pictures later comparing the two. The Hankook's definitely aren't as wide as the Azenis in the same size, so thats why i'm going with 225's on the hankook's. I saw an RSX this weekend with 225 hankooks on a 7in wide wheel and it wasn't anywhere near bulging out the side. Where as my 215 Azenis are fairly pushing just past the edge on the same size wheel.

I'll definitely be interested to see how they both feel.

 

Well, this is only my second year in the sport and my first in STX with a new 2005 MCS with OEM LSD. Observations from a couple of WDCR test and tunes plus one event:

1. Yes, I have no rotation. People tell me I have too much negative camber in the back, and too much stick. They say I should try some new control arms, and I've ordered a set. The car is great in transitions, and I like that part of it. But I need more rotation than I have, as I bog down in the long slow turns.

2. I have tried a couple of variations with the Bilsteins: 6 (10 is max stiff) front and rear, 4 front and 6 rear, 5 at both ends, and I tried 3 at both ends and that actually wasn't bad. Meanwhile, the rear bar is on medium stiff (middle hole). Would it be better on full soft or full stiff? At least one colleague here runs on full soft.

3. I was actually more competitive running my 17-inch Team Dynamics/Kumho MX set up than the 16-inch SSR/Azeni 215s set up. But maybe it was crummy driving when running the latter. Curious even so.

4. I know it won't make a big difference, but I gotta get an exhaust system, so I'm ordering the Miltek I think.

5. I have tried running the tires at 35 to 38 pounds pressure, easing the front pressures back when the tires heat up, but leaving the rears alone as I complete runs. I'm wondering if there would be any advantage to running much higher pressures in back (like 40-42 pounds), like so many G-Stockers do, to achieve rotation.

6. I thought the LSD would be a more decisive advantage, and it's nice, but not the huge difference I thought it might be.

The car is still somewhat undeveloped, but I like driving it. Any suggestions from the vets on this board would be very welcomed.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Is the Helix rear bar adjustable? DO you have it on full stiff? If so and your still not rotating.....?

Here is how well my car rotates with just H&R's and an adjustable rear bar on full stiff:

http://autox.carlc.com/video/clips/2004/10/JoeRun-1.mpg

What is your front camber set to?

 

Here are the Pics:



















The RS-2's are 225's and the Azenis are 215's. As you see the Hankooks look like the same width even though they are supposed to be 10mm bigger. From what i've heard its basically Falkens fault because they tend to make the Azenis bigger than the measurement thats listed.

 

The bar is adjustable, but I have it set to medium stiff (middle hole). I may try full stiff next event. But I think a camber reduction is also in order.

Front camber is the max I can attain with the camber plates. I don't have the alignment figures with me, but maybe 2 degrees???

I only got sound from your clip, but would be interested in seeing it. How much did the H&Rs lower your rear end? What is your camber back there? (I have considerable negative camber at the rear.)

Thanks,

Jim

 

JiminVirgina wrote:

Jim,
I did extensive tire pressure logs last season running G stock with the 215/45/16 Azenis RT-215 on my 16" stock x-lite wheels. In stock trim around 35 psi seemed to be a magic number. I played with the pressures on the rears + 3-5 psi to get better rotation. The other variables were:

1. Type of surface (Medium sticky asphalt)
2. Ambient track temps. (70 degF to 85 degF)
3. Two driver car. (1 driver car)

If any of the above variables changed, so did my pressures.

On hotter days significantly over 85 degF, or, super grip concrete (Grissom), or 2nd driver. I bumped the pressures up to the low to mid 40's to keep the tires cooler.

On cooler days, or slicker surfaces, I dropped the pressures to heat up the tires to get better grip.

When you say your front tires get too hot, are you loosing grip getting greasy then you are DROPPING pressure in the front? I would think you would increase the pressure and make sure the rears still higher pressure than the back.

This is info is only good for tire adjustments AFTER you get your other settings are close. You may be trying to adjust too many things at once.

I am in the same boat with you for this year as I have moved to STX also.
Fortunately ??? I have fewer adjustments to make as I only installed front camber plates (set at -1.5 deg), H-Sport comp rear bar (middle stiff) with everything else stock with a compitition alignment (1/16" toe out front, and 0 toe rear). I get great rotation using the same pressure ranges as last year in G stock.

1. I would get the front camber at least -.5 deg camber more than the rear. Set it and forget it.
2. Next make sure your alignment is correct. Alignment is a big deal with these cars (check your rear toe settings).
3. Play with the rear bar settings. Get it close enough (not too much over/under steer).
4. Fine tune with shocks and tire pressures last.

Keep a data log book on all changes/test conditions and change only one thing at a time. It may take most of a season but the results will be worth it.

ps: Dig the pics by Thamath. First time I've see side by side of the two tires. Curious about the new 615 though.

 

You need the Divx codec ( www.divx.com ) to view the video correctly. Its a quick 2 min install.

When the car was lowered it looked like the rear was lowered alot more than the front but we checked with a measuring tape and it actually was only about a tenth of an inch or so lower.

The camber was pretty aggresive, i never had it checked but just visually i can imagine almost 2 deg. I have a set of KMAC camber plates i bought off something here in the market place but they had two broke parts. So i've never been able to install them. I'm working on contacting KMAC for replacement parts. Once i have that installed i'll look to get an aggresive autox alignment which would still work for street driving.

Now i just have to wait for my 05' to arrive.

 

Thanks very much for the feedback. Yes, I'm probably trying to do too much at once--a result of bolting a bunch of stuff on and hoping for the best. I'll have to be more methodical.

I definitely have more camber at the rear than the front, and I'm going to try to take a little out of the rear with the new control arms.

On tire pressures, 35 lbs front, 38 rear more or less, cold, sounds right. What I meant about adjusting the fronts as I run is that the pressure rises after each run, as the tires get hot, and I was trying to keep it in the mid-30s. Should I just let it rise, instead?

Despite all of this, the car is not really that far off. I have issues only in certain corners. So I'm hopeful of getting it sorted out without too much distress.

Cheers, guys.

 

Nice rotation

 

Why thank you

Not exactly my proudest moment but hey it happens. Was a little scary that it just snapped like that and the car didn't feel tail happy before that moment. It just suddenly went around and i was along for the ride. Luckily i didn't fight the spin much more than a little countersteer or i think i would have ended up in that tree i stopped 10 feet short of .

 

Your tire pressure depends on how the car felt to you at the wheel and also how its wearing at the shoulder. You may want to get some chalk and mark the shoulder of the tire and see if its wearing correctly at the wear line. If its over the wear line and on the sidewall then you need more pressure. If its bellow the wear line than you can remove some pressure.

Technically once they heat up they will start to go under the wear line(pressure builds and the tire gets stiffer) so you may want to take out some pressure, but you want to be careful. You take out too much and you'll be back on the sidewall. Usually if i did well with my intial guess i don't touch them as the heat gain is minimal with one run. If your doing multiple runs back to back then you may want to look into dropping pressure as heat builds.

Tires, heat, and pressure's are an interesting science

 

Do you think the 225/45/16 Hankooks will fit on a stock 05 MCS with stock 16" wheels and no spacers? I'm thinking of running them for the street/STX/GS Rains since they are only 0.3" taller than the 215/45/16 but 0.5" wider.

What do you think? Has anyone tried these yet on stock wheels?