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Has anyone here done your clutch replacement?

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Has anyone here done your clutch replacement?

  #1  
Old 07-23-2005, 06:47 AM
barnhillld
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Has anyone here done your clutch replacement?

I have an 02 MC which I believe lost the pressure plate in the clutch last night. Haven't touched it yet, but the symptoms are like there is no connection between the motor and transmission.

Put the transmission in gear, release pedal (which feels 'odd') and nothing at all.... no matter what gear you put the trans in, no transfer of energy at all... motor just sits and idles as though it's in neutral, except you don't even hear any transmission noise.

So, I'm guessing that the pressure plate has collapsed and is making no attempt to engage the disk. The pedal does feel a bit 'odd' but it continues to travel up and down and has a bit of resistance in the feel. Not sure what a hydraulic clutch should feel like if the pressure plate is bad, but I sort of expected it to just stay down.

At any rate, the car has 55,000 miles so it's out of warranty and I guess I have to do this job myself since I can't afford the labor rates on a job this size.

I ordered the Bentley manual last night, but it hasn't arrived. Anyone have any advice before I start? Are there any specific technical bulletins I should be aware, any cautions specific to the MINI, any chance I could get someone else to do this for if I buy the beer?

Seriously, would sincerely appreciate any advice specific to the Mini. I've changed a clutch before, but never worked on these and it looks "rather compact" under the hood.

Thanks,
Lloyd

PS (edited 24 July): The Bentley manual arrived and it seems well worth the price judging by the level of detail.

Additional questions for those with experience in these areas.
Where do you buy your parts and why? I see a few places online to get a clutch (and brakes while I have it apart), I see special transmission oil specified, etc... I live over 50 miles from the nearest dealer and will likely buy everything I need online as my local Autozone stocks nothing for the Mini and the only clutch NAPA stocks is a generic no name brand. I do not race this car (it's actually my wife's) and I do not need "racing" components. I would however, appreciate good quality well made parts at a reasonable price and would also appreciate hearing from experienced Mini owners regarding what clutch / brake parts to use as well as where to get them.

Thanks again,
Lloyd
 

Last edited by barnhillld; 07-24-2005 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Additional detail
  #2  
Old 07-23-2005, 07:30 AM
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I've watched DT change my clutch and it's very involved. Lots of parts need to come out on top of motor, subframe needs to be dropped and then you need two people to manhandle the heavy tranny. Getting it back on is a Beeech If you're going to do it yourself, plan on having another ride as your Mini will be in surgery for 12 hours or more and find a friend to help. I've gotten rates from $850 to over $1000 for this work. For that kind of money, you might want to consider investing in stronger clutch, lighter flywheel and/or LSD while you're in there...just a thought:smile:
 
  #3  
Old 07-23-2005, 08:16 AM
barnhillld
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"or LSD while you're in there..."


Got a smile out of me on that one....

The Bentley manual arrived last night and it appears there is another viable option (instead of dropping the sub-frame and wrestling the transmission under the car) by pulling the engine and transmission as a unit..

I'm currently working on the removal of parts common to both approaches while I consider which option to go with and hope for more advice on these forums.. I have to say though that I'm leaning toward pulling the engine to do this....

Thanks for the response.....

Cheers,
Lloyd
 
  #4  
Old 07-23-2005, 09:36 AM
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Best of luck and keep us posted
 
  #5  
Old 07-23-2005, 02:13 PM
002
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Don't forget that if you remove the engine you will have to remove the exhaust manifold, coolant lines, a/c lines, fuel lines, etc... I have done the clutch and would still drop the subframe again.

The transmission is NOT a pain to remove or install, but it is a little heavy and you will need help if you don't have a cherry picker. You don't actually need most of the specialty tools listed.

There are few posts about the install and I would recomend alot of reading before doing it. PM me if you want some specifics of the job. But whatever you do only take advise from people that have actually done this job. It is complicated enough that I got a job offer from a shop foreman that saw me do this in my garage.
Good luck.:smile:
 
  #6  
Old 07-24-2005, 05:32 AM
barnhillld
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Clutch Advice (your PM mailbox is full)

Hi 002, thanks for the response and the offer for additional advice (as I think I'll need it). Your mailbox is full and I was not able to send a PM.

Where you said "You don't actually need most of the specialty tools listed", this implies that I do need some of the specialty tools.... can you tell me which as I currently have only the standard off the shelf tools around here and no special BMW part numbers...

Dropping the sub-frame looks like there are quite a few additional steering/suspension pieces that have to be removed and it will require an alignment at the end of the job. Is the Bentley manual telling me to remove a bunch of stuff that doesn't need removed? I'm also doing this job on a garage floor with only a cherry picker and a couple of jacks. The sub-frame looks more doable with a full lift and as I said, looks like it involves a lot of extra stuff to remove... How heavy is the transmission/transaxle? and can I lift this from above with the cherry picker (or must it be raised from below on installation?)

Also, on another thread a response indicated that the symptoms present could also mean a problem with the differential and that I should check that while I'm in there. Makes sense, but I'm not sure what to look for (besides obvious and visible broken parts). Any idea if there is any test or particular detail to look for regarding the diff?

Thanks again for your help, I've changed a few clutches but, (I'm 46) those were mostly in cars with inline drive trains, rear wheel drive and engines with "327" and "289" and "340" behind the names :smile: I've done one front wheel drive in a '97 Eagle Talon, but this Mini is very different.

Cheers,
Lloyd
 

Last edited by barnhillld; 07-24-2005 at 05:35 AM. Reason: edits
  #7  
Old 07-24-2005, 06:20 AM
jlm
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I changed mine, solo (and I've got a kid almost your age,). a cherry picker to take the weight of the trans from above is very useful. I also did it on jack stands, no lift. use an air wrench.

put the car on stands, as high as possible, safely.
remove front wheels, put car in service mode (means remove bumper, etc you are going to remove a lot of components, so get a big table to lay out the parts and fasteners; don't hold back.

drop subframe: Hints: remove the tie-rod ball joints by popping the taper with a conventional puller; remove the hub ball joint assemblies from the hub (don't pop that taper) watch out for ABS and brake lines, Xenon levelers. remove all bolts, remove the coil unit and powersteering fluid resevoir bracket, drop frame about 3", supporting with jack. remove electrical connectors from power steeriing and ps fan. lower frame, bringing ps res down with it. It is not certain that you will need an alignment when replacing it as the highest bolts are dowel sleeve located to the frame.

tranny dropping: airbox, ecu/fuse housing, throttle body and intake runner for access to shifter connectors and bell housing bolts. it is far better to remove more of this stuff than fight with bolt access. remove the starter shield and electrical connectors on the starter, then the starter/bell housing bolts (this part is a *****).

the rest is by the book. figure a full day's work.

when apart, you will have amazing access to the following:
oil filter housing: put in your temp and pressure gauge senders now
front sway bar
front control arm bushing upgrade (Powerflex parts)
time for the Quaife? beefier clutch?

it's a lot of work, not particulary fun (except for the subframe part; that is pretty cool)
 

Last edited by jlm; 07-24-2005 at 06:24 AM.
  #8  
Old 07-24-2005, 06:49 AM
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Thanks (sub-frame is "cool"?)

Thanks for the advice..... guess I better get off the laptop and start pulling wrenches huh? :smile:
 
  #9  
Old 07-24-2005, 08:24 AM
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Our steering/tie rods remained in place during the frame drop. No realignment needed :smile:
 
  #10  
Old 07-24-2005, 08:35 AM
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a pic or two
 

Last edited by jlm; 01-18-2006 at 04:16 AM.
  #11  
Old 07-24-2005, 08:48 AM
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I have done my rear sway bar, my pulley, and my CAI and all I can say when I see this project is... !!!!!

You are braver than I.
 
  #12  
Old 07-24-2005, 09:13 AM
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have you figure where to find an oem clutch and flywheel yet? moss started selling oem discs... you might want to check them out

im sure classic auto'd be happy to help you as well on that

can't wait to see pictures when you are doin it!
 
  #13  
Old 07-24-2005, 09:23 AM
barnhillld
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002, jlm, MSFITOY, & kyriian; Thanks, you're all helping more than you know...

002, jlm, MSFITOY, & kyriian; Thanks, you're all helping more than you know...

kyriian: "can't wait to see pictures when you are doin it!"
Guess I better take some pictures then huh?

Now.... for a "trivial" question: How the heck do you get the shifter cables off? The manual says to "...use BMW tool # such and such OR use two screwdrivers and carefully pry...". I'm 50 miles from a dealer and I really do NOT want to break these fittings. I'm apply what seems an inordinate amount of force and the dang things haven't budged... what's the trick here?

I'll post a few pics of where I'm at in a bit (camera is down in the garage and my wireless doesn't reach that far)
 
  #14  
Old 07-24-2005, 10:20 AM
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A few pictures - early in the job

Here's the offending shifter cables.... can't I just cut them?
 
Attached Thumbnails Has anyone here done your clutch replacement?-shift-cables.gif   Has anyone here done your clutch replacement?-the-mess.gif  
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:30 AM
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they are not easy, but they do pop off. one was easier than the other to get at. I used pry bars and screwdrivers and hated it.
 
  #16  
Old 07-24-2005, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jlm
they are not easy, but they do pop off. one was easier than the other to get at. I used pry bars and screwdrivers and hated it.
Cool, where here goes.....
 
  #17  
Old 07-24-2005, 10:39 AM
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:45 AM
barnhillld
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Originally Posted by jlm
Thanks, good info.... I have it open in another window... and it turns out my wireless DOES reach the garage, although just barely...

and PS: Cable ends are off now... I was holding back a bit out of fear of breaking them. Thanks again...... and on to the next bit.....
 

Last edited by barnhillld; 07-24-2005 at 10:47 AM. Reason: PS
  #19  
Old 07-24-2005, 12:36 PM
barnhillld
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Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Our steering/tie rods remained in place during the frame drop. No realignment needed :smile:
Ok, I'm biting...... how the heck did you do that? All the instructions in my Bentley manual say you have to remove the tie rod ends and the steering knuckle to even get the drive axles out.... let alone drop the sub-frame...

This would be great, to avoid these disassemblies and avoid the alignment... so what do I do?
 
  #20  
Old 07-24-2005, 01:23 PM
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if you pop the ball joint taper, you won't affect the alignment. If you were to separate the tie-rod at the adjuster, you would affect the toe.
 
  #21  
Old 07-24-2005, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jlm
if you pop the ball joint taper, you won't affect the alignment. If you were to separate the tie-rod at the adjuster, you would affect the toe.
Yeah, you're right... from what MSFITOY said, I had hoped there might be some trick to doing this without disconnecting all the steering components. Guess there's no magic to it though. From what I can see under the car, the ball joint and tie rod ends simply have to come off. Got the left side tie rod, rotor, brake caliper off now, about to move to the right side as I don't have have a ball joint puller that will fit this thing. Will try to get everything up to that point tonight and pick up a puller tomorrow on the way home from the office.

:;sigh:: I'm tired.... I don't do this sort of work everyday! :smile:
 
  #22  
Old 07-24-2005, 07:01 PM
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Question about a couple of statements you made in your other forum..

JLM, in the other forum you sent me the link to, you said a couple of things I wanted to follow up on (hope you don't mind my pestering, but I'm learning a lot here online in between pulling a few wrenches....

1: "...the drive shafts do not have to be removed from the hubs; pry them out of the trans and tie them up. you do have to remove the intermediate shaft bracket and drain the trans oil.
After doing this a couple of times by now, do you still recommend this approach? It looks really tight to pry the shafts out without removing the hubs.... or are you saying to remove the steering knuckles but leave that end of the drive shaft attached to the steering knuckle?
2: "...the entire intake system from radiator panel up to and including throttle body has to come out so that you can do the next steps:
Mine is not an S, just a plain jane Mini. I don't have the supercharger or intercooler to deal with and "looks" as though I can leave the throttle body in and still reach the bell housing bolts fine. I assume you're working on an S and have the additional parts there to work around and this is the reason you're pulling the intake system?

3: "...separating the tie rod ball joints, un-bolting the control arm ball joints (leaving the control arm ball joint tapers intact, but removing the bolts holding the joint to the hub)..."
From the comments you made up above in a previous posting in this forum, you stated that if I pop the ball joint taper, I shouldn't need to re-align the steering. Did you fine that unbolting the ball joints at the hub impacted your alignment? Do you still unbolt the ball joints in this manner or do you now recomment poping the taper instead?
4: Regarding replacement a clutch. It looks like you had a bad experience with the Sachs. How did the replacement work out? Have you heard any reports of good solid inexpensive clutches for daily grocery getter use? This is my wife's car and it's not abused normally. (we do have teenage boys, so it wouldn't hurt to get something a little beefy but the swear they don't push it when they borrow her car [yeah right!] ).

5: Brakes... same question.... now that I'm in there, the rotors and pads obviously should have been replaced a few thousand miles ago. I see some advertised rotor & pad sets for under 200 dollars... I can't find the link now that I need it, but I believe these were EBC rotors & pads and it seemed reasonable for the full front set...

Thanks again for your advice and help... very appreciated...

Cheers,
Lloyd
 
  #23  
Old 07-24-2005, 07:19 PM
002
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1. I removed the shafts and hubs as an assembly. pop the tie rod joint at the hub/ steering arm. don't pop the hub to control arm joint, just remove the bolts that connect the joint to the hub and pry it out. remove the bolt that holds the hub to the strut and pull the hub and shaft out as one. This is with the brakes removed.

You will need a female torx socket to remove the pressure plate. have someone hold the crank pulley with channel locks to remove and re torque the bolts.

My PM should be emty now, but it looks like you're in good hands.
 
  #24  
Old 07-25-2005, 03:07 AM
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I found room to slip the shaft out of the trans, hub still attached to the coilover. this is with the subframe dropped already, so sway bar links disconnected, tie rod ball joints popped, hub support ball joints removed from hub.


mine was an S; different intake parts

definitely unbolt the control arm ball joints and it won't affect alignment.

I have the spec clutch stage 2 and it is fine.

002 is certainly right about that female torx; not found at your typical auto store. I'll get you the size later
 
  #25  
Old 07-25-2005, 05:39 AM
barnhillld
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spec clutch stage 2

Who sells this 'spec clutch stage 2'? I haven't seen that in my surfing online looking for parts (or I breezed right past it if the price was too high )

Thanks again.. sub-frame will come down tonight after work.

Cheers,
Lloyd
 

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