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Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs.
This question is probably better answered by those who own shops such as Way Motor Works and Detroit Tuned who service MINIs on a daily basis, but obviously, the more the merrier...
At the end of last November, I replaced my passenger-side axle as both boots were split, and rather than replace just the boots, I opted to replace the entire axle, as the car had appx. 140,000 on the clock. After researching the project, I chose a re-manufactured axle by Cardone, as most have had good experiences with them.
Not too long after replacing the axle, I noticed drippage coming from the shaft output seal. I thought perhaps during the axle replacement process, I had likely upset the seal (original to the car) and probably should have replaced it with the new axle.
In December, I ordered a brand new OE seal, pulled the axle, and replaced the seal with the new one. Within a week, I noticed more fluid on the floor, and when I jacked up the car, I saw more fluid on the lower gearbox case, which was coming from the same (new) shaft seal.
I lived with that all winter, as it had become too cold to work on the car, with the plan to revisit when the weather warmed in the spring, as I was planning to replace my brake discs and pads along with new wheel bearings all around.
Well, I just did that job last week along with the installation of yet another new seal, which - you guessed it - is leaking.
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At this point, I'm guessing the remanufactured axle I received might have had too much use in it's prior life, and is slightly out of spec, to the point of the seal not being able to cradle it as tightly as it needs to.
To WMW, Detroit Tuned and hopefully others...
1) Is my theory plausible?
2) Have you serviced vehicles with this particular issue?
3) Is this something that can be expected when replacing with a remanufactured axle?
Last edited by AoxoMoxoA; 05-25-2018 at 07:24 AM.
Reason: Clarification
Does it continue to leak when you are parked for an extended period?
I ask as I had something very similar happen to me with a 5sp Getrag out of an '05 Cooper. My issue turned out to be the diff bearings were worn beyond spec. Pulling and replacing axles for a clutch change was when mine started. If you push on the axle, near the transmission, does it wobble, any at all?
Last edited by David Baker; 05-25-2018 at 09:58 AM.
Reason: Added text
Does it continue to leak when you are parked for an extended period?
Appreciate the input.
It leaks after I've driven the car. In fact, there's a "spray pattern" of gearbox lube on all areas underneath which are in-line with the seal, indicating oil coming out as the axle spins.
Originally Posted by David Baker
If you push on the axle, near the transmission, does it wobble, any at all?
Just checked on that. It's tight; no movement at all.
May be its just me. For issues like this I tend to be self-reliant. There are many subtle points other cannot help you. By this I mean who know the specific axles you put in. Even within the same brand and model, these axles can change over time or unit to unit. From what I infer, these aftermarket, reman, Chinese made axles are all over the places.
If it were me, before installing the new or reman axles especially they are not MINI, I would put them side by side with the OE axles and scrutinize them carefully. Compare the lengths. compare the number of spines. Compare the appearance of the two CV joints. Compare the rubber boots. And most important compare the diameters (with a caliper) of the axle where the seal lips seat on.
I hope you still have the OE axles. If you do I will go compare them carefully.
The other possibility is burrs or nicks on the shaft where the seal lip seats against. I recall the passenger side axle has oil slits. I would examine them carefully.
May be its just me. For issues like this I tend to be self-reliant.
Oh I am... By seal #3, I'm pretty sure that in my case, the only way gearbox oil is getting out of the gearbox is by wicking past the inner lip of the seal. Not likely that I've had three bad seals. The drippage originates at the center of the seal - not the outer edge.
My query was mainly to see if others have experienced this with the remanufactured axles.
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
I hope you still have the OE axles. If you do I will go compare them carefully.
Unfortunately, that's not possible as the original was returned as a core. The replacement axle is still under warranty, so I'm trying to arrange an exchange/replacement from the vendor.
I've seen aftermarket axles where the shaft is too far into the support bearing and it prevents it from sitting all the way in the seal correctly.
Good info!
I wonder if the support bearing can be adjusted to the right if that’s the case. Should the splined end on the gearbox side “bottom out” inside the gearbox?
Back to your original question. For a reman'ed axle, the shaft surface that the seal lip rides on typically would not receive much wear from use. If the dimension is incorrect more likely is the machining to remove nicks or damage from handling. I have seen big steel bin of used rusty, junky looking axles got throw into these bins. You axle may be a lucky one that got hit by another just at the right spot, before the reman process, and the rebuilder decided it is good enough and pass "quality control".
I would examine very carefully the surface that the seal rides on for nicks and burrs. It would be very difficult to check for dimension with the specs. There might be tell tail sign on the seal lip(s) but may be very hard to discern what is normal.
I have seen axle replacements that have scored the reception orifice within the transmission and no seal will stop the leak. Did you use allot of force to get the new axle in place or removing the existing?
Ingress and egress of any orifice should always be done gently. OP replaced the seal three times.
When I reinstalled the front subframe, I realized I forgot to reinstall the headlight leveling sensor. The only way to install it at that point was to pull the driver side axle out so the ball joint bolt may be remove to install the sensor. I had quite a bit of trouble re-inserting the axle into the LSD spline. I kept trying but very gentle with it so not to mess up the seal lip, or worst the spline teeth. Gentle did it eventually. And I remembered to mind the gap.
I wonder if the support bearing can be adjusted to the right if that’s the case. Should the splined end on the gearbox side “bottom out” inside the gearbox?
Unbolt the carrier and move the dust cover on the shaft so you can see how much engagement you are getting.
Remember the actual seal lip is on the back (inside) of the seal, not the lip you can see.
Did you use allot of force to get the new axle in place or removing the existing?
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
Ingress and egress of any orifice should always be done gently.
Not at all, I was very careful to slide the old axle straight out, and the 'new' (remanufactured) back in. At the time, there was nothing to negotiate around, since I was in the middle of a complete shock/strut/knuckle/suspension re-do, and all components were removed from the wheel well. Axle was totally unimpeded; straight in, straight out.
Originally Posted by downshift1
Unbolt the carrier and move the dust cover on the shaft so you can see how much engagement you are getting. Remember the actual seal lip is on the back (inside) of the seal, not the lip you can see.
With the carrier bearing in place, it seems to be in as far as it can go in. We'll see how we make out with trying to get a warranty replacement. You might also be onto something if the carrier bearing itself is slightly off spec.
The issue I've had with aftermarket axles is the carrier is pressed on the shaft too far which pulls the axle out of the trans which moves the sealing surface of the axle too far out and they leak. take the three bolts out of the carrier and see if the axle will move further into the transmission. If it does then that is your issue. I went through 3 axles before I figured it, I think it's the jigs they use to assemble them are wrong.
The issue I've had with aftermarket axles is the carrier is pressed on the shaft too far which pulls the axle out of the trans which moves the sealing surface of the axle too far out and they leak. take the three bolts out of the carrier and see if the axle will move further into the transmission. If it does then that is your issue. I went through 3 axles before I figured it, I think it's the jigs they use to assemble them are wrong.
I haven't measured, but is there a taper to the sealing surface of the axle?
Unbolting the axle and checking for play will need to happen this coming weekend. Hopefully by then, I will have heard about a warranty replacement.
What did you eventually decide? I am having the same problem. 155K. Passenger side axle replacement with a Cardone remanufactured unit, uneventful removal of the old and installation of the new. Compared old and new and they looked identical. After a brief drive noticed a leak at the seal (which I had not replaced.) Otherwise driving the car and everything works fine, without noise or shudder. Will replace the seal tomorrow; would like to know if there is anything I should look for. How did you remove the old seal, and are there any special precautions when installing the new? TIA.
I have checked the Bentley and it simply says to lever out the old with a screwdriver (taking care not to scratch the recess where the seal sits) and to tap in the new (using a socket) until it is flush with the transmission housing.
I returned the Cardone under warranty replacement, which ended up being a refund, as a replacement axle was back-ordered at the time and I couldn't wait any longer. I ended up purchasing a new DSS axle from Autohaus AZ which included the carrier bearing holder and installed perfectly. To date it has not leaked.
The problem with the leak was with the axle, not the seal. I think downshift1 nailed it (post #7 above) when he suggested a slightly out of spec carrier bearing location on the re-manufactured shafts. It doesn't take much to cause a leak.
Originally Posted by JAB 67
How did you remove the old seal, and are there any special precautions when installing the new? TIA.
Removed the old seal with a combination of a thin screwdriver and a 90° small handled hook thingie... The first time I reinstalled the new seal I carefully tapped it in with a small rubber mallet and wooden dowel around the perimeter of the seal until seated.
Installation of the last seal was with a 1-1/2" PVC pipe cap (2-1/4" O.D.) which worked perfectly to align with the outer lip of seal and tapping it in evenly with a small rubber mallet.
I've seen where axle sockets are used as well. The key is to tap in evenly.
Important to find a tool to tap it in on the outside edge, as using a smaller diameter tool on the inner part of seal will ruin it.
Also helps to lightly coat outer surface of seal with lube to facilitate installation.
Last edited by AoxoMoxoA; 10-09-2018 at 06:08 AM.
Reason: Clarification
I believe that pvc cap is 2”, not 1.5”. I did this yesterday and a 2” pvc cap or plug fit perfectly. I wish in retrospect that I had precisely compared the location of the carrier bearing on the shaft of the remanufactured Cardone axle with the OE axle. everything else about the two axles appeared identical and this potential cause of a seal leak was not known to me at the time. I don’t think there is any leeway in placement of the housing that secures the carrier bearing to the oil pan. And, no leeway in placing the housing on the bearing.
So these two failure shows Cardone cannot build a reman axle correctly. At least on the right side one. Will they ever find out all their LHS axles are defective? I am not counting on it.
05-24-2018, 04:28 PM
OP replaced the seal three times.
