06 Mini S wont crank
#1
04-18-2018, 05:52 AM
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06 Mini S wont crank
hey everyone..
i have a big problem with my mini.. I bought it last week and it ran and drove perfect with no issues, the other day I drove it to get some paint, keep in mind it was running and driving perfectly.. I get out of the paint store, get in and turn the key, nothing happens.
i tested the battery thinking it was a power issue and the battery read 12.6 volts 604cca I checked the grounds and everything.
I tried to bump start it in reverse and second gear, the engine wouldn’t even turn over! I also tried getting a jump from a cummins and still nothing..
i started to get really frustrated.. I got it towed to my shop, jacked it up and put a breaker bar on the crank, it won’t budge! Took the spark plugs out and tried again, same issue...
what could possibly be the problem ? Could the starter bendix gear be lodged into the flywheel? Could the engine seize when it wasn’t making any weird noises and was running perfect before shutting it off? Has anyone experienced something like this before ? All help is appreciated !
i have a big problem with my mini.. I bought it last week and it ran and drove perfect with no issues, the other day I drove it to get some paint, keep in mind it was running and driving perfectly.. I get out of the paint store, get in and turn the key, nothing happens.
i tested the battery thinking it was a power issue and the battery read 12.6 volts 604cca I checked the grounds and everything.
I tried to bump start it in reverse and second gear, the engine wouldn’t even turn over! I also tried getting a jump from a cummins and still nothing..
i started to get really frustrated.. I got it towed to my shop, jacked it up and put a breaker bar on the crank, it won’t budge! Took the spark plugs out and tried again, same issue...
what could possibly be the problem ? Could the starter bendix gear be lodged into the flywheel? Could the engine seize when it wasn’t making any weird noises and was running perfect before shutting it off? Has anyone experienced something like this before ? All help is appreciated !
#3
04-18-2018, 06:03 AM
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#6
04-18-2018, 07:25 AM
2nd Gear
Hmm
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-in-cabin.html
Maybe? Post #15 shows his fix. Happened after it rained, water got into his fusebox.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-in-cabin.html
Maybe? Post #15 shows his fix. Happened after it rained, water got into his fusebox.
#7
04-18-2018, 07:29 AM
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Hmm
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-in-cabin.html
Maybe? Post #15 shows his fix. Happened after it rained, water got into his fusebox.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-in-cabin.html
Maybe? Post #15 shows his fix. Happened after it rained, water got into his fusebox.
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#9
04-18-2018, 08:27 AM
Alternately you can watch the voltage of the battery when you try crank the starter, and you likely see a huge voltage sag.
#10
04-18-2018, 08:51 AM
I suppose it could be a jammed starter into the flywheel, but I've never seen that happen on a German car.
#11
04-18-2018, 10:34 AM
Has anyone ever heard of an SC PTO gear seizing the SC?
He mentioned he heard a "gravel in the wheel well" type sound (could be SC PTO gears, they sound like that), but I've never heard of an SC being seized by that.
Removing the belt and trying to turn it over by hand could eliminate that, but it also could be overheated due to loss of water pump (though he mentioned it didn't overheat)
He mentioned he heard a "gravel in the wheel well" type sound (could be SC PTO gears, they sound like that), but I've never heard of an SC being seized by that.
Removing the belt and trying to turn it over by hand could eliminate that, but it also could be overheated due to loss of water pump (though he mentioned it didn't overheat)
#13
04-19-2018, 09:37 AM
Re-reading his chronology, it smell awfully like the starter seized with the Bendix gear engaged with the flywheel. Do take some care when removing the starter to verify. It might be binding a bit so gentle does it. It is the easiest way to determine next step. Best of luck. Again, no mileage of the car was given. 
#14
04-19-2018, 10:06 AM
#15
04-19-2018, 10:08 AM
If he says he can hear the starter "click", isn't that the solenoid engaging and moving the drive gear? If the starter gear were jammed into the flywheel I don't think you'd hear a click?
Hard to believe a little starter motor is so FUBAR it resists being turned by a breaker bar.
Hard to believe a little starter motor is so FUBAR it resists being turned by a breaker bar.
We're thinking it's electrical to the starter at this point.
#16
04-19-2018, 10:13 AM
hey everyone..
i have a big problem with my mini.. I bought it last week and it ran and drove perfect with no issues, the other day I drove it to get some paint, keep in mind it was running and driving perfectly.. I get out of the paint store, get in and turn the key, nothing happens.
i tested the battery thinking it was a power issue and the battery read 12.6 volts 604cca I checked the grounds and everything.
I tried to bump start it in reverse and second gear, the engine wouldn’t even turn over! I also tried getting a jump from a cummins and still nothing..
i started to get really frustrated.. I got it towed to my shop, jacked it up and put a breaker bar on the crank, it won’t budge! Took the spark plugs out and tried again, same issue...
what could possibly be the problem ? Could the starter bendix gear be lodged into the flywheel? Could the engine seize when it wasn’t making any weird noises and was running perfect before shutting it off? Has anyone experienced something like this before ? All help is appreciated !
i have a big problem with my mini.. I bought it last week and it ran and drove perfect with no issues, the other day I drove it to get some paint, keep in mind it was running and driving perfectly.. I get out of the paint store, get in and turn the key, nothing happens.
i tested the battery thinking it was a power issue and the battery read 12.6 volts 604cca I checked the grounds and everything.
I tried to bump start it in reverse and second gear, the engine wouldn’t even turn over! I also tried getting a jump from a cummins and still nothing..
i started to get really frustrated.. I got it towed to my shop, jacked it up and put a breaker bar on the crank, it won’t budge! Took the spark plugs out and tried again, same issue...
what could possibly be the problem ? Could the starter bendix gear be lodged into the flywheel? Could the engine seize when it wasn’t making any weird noises and was running perfect before shutting it off? Has anyone experienced something like this before ? All help is appreciated !
#17
04-19-2018, 10:15 AM
If he says he can hear the starter "click", isn't that the solenoid engaging and moving the drive gear? If the starter gear were jammed into the flywheel I don't think you'd hear a click?
Hard to believe a little starter motor is so FUBAR it resists being turned by a breaker bar.
Hard to believe a little starter motor is so FUBAR it resists being turned by a breaker bar.
#18
04-19-2018, 10:30 AM
I've jump started many cars in reverse, I don't understand that reference.
Last edited by Snydermann; 04-19-2018 at 10:39 AM.
#19
04-19-2018, 10:36 AM
Alternator?
Out of curiosity, how long did it run after tow starting it? I ask, because I recently had a similar problem. Drove home, heard something, smelled what I thought was electrical burning smell. Got home, turned off car and it would not crank at all. After spending a couple of day's trying to jump start it, charging the battery it still did not budge.
Thanks to the forum and @nkfry, it turned out to be the alternator.
here is my thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-start.html
Thanks to the forum and @nkfry, it turned out to be the alternator.
here is my thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-start.html
#20
04-19-2018, 10:45 AM
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Out of curiosity, how long did it run after tow starting it? I ask, because I recently had a similar problem. Drove home, heard something, smelled what I thought was electrical burning smell. Got home, turned off car and it would not crank at all. After spending a couple of day's trying to jump start it, charging the battery it still did not budge.
Thanks to the forum and @nkfry, it turned out to be the alternator.
here is my thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-start.html
Thanks to the forum and @nkfry, it turned out to be the alternator.
here is my thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-start.html
#21
04-19-2018, 11:44 AM
Unless it's spinning there is no gear ratio. 200 foot pounds of torque applied to the crank bolt ---> to the flywheel tooth ---> to the jammed starter gear tooth, is still going to be almost 200 foot pounds of torque at the starter gear. Assuming a jammed starter gear, all these parts are connected. Think of a bicycle crank and sprocket, if you push down on the pedal the same forces are through the crank, chain, and sprockets until it starts to roll. Not to mention the leverages you have from a few feet of breaker bar and a 14"(?) flywheel against a 1 inch starter gear.
I've jump started many cars in reverse, I don't understand that reference.
I've jump started many cars in reverse, I don't understand that reference.
Mini's starter has 10 teeth max.
The flywheel has say 100 teeth.
200 lb-ft of torque applied to the crank bolt will be reduced to 20 lb-ft of torque at the starter, and that is ignoring friction of the engine and the stater motor. If you can turn it, the starter will spin at 10x the rpm. So the starter motor only need to be 20 lb-ft tight to stop you dead from turning it at the crank bolt with 200 lb-ft.
hey everyone ! Yes I bump started it in 5th gear yesterday..
#22
04-19-2018, 12:02 PM
Dude, everything is stationary initially. The twisting motion of the breaker bar on the crank bolt goes through the crank, to the flywheel, to the starter gear. There is no toothed gearing advantage until it starts to spin. You also have a leverage advantage in the flywheel and the breaker bar over that 1 inch starter gear.
Like I said, think of a bicycle chain, the tension in the top of the chain from the crank to the rear wheel sprocket under pressure is equal, until the rear wheel spins. The crank of the bike is the crank of the car, the rear sprocket is the starter gear.
You have a huge lever, 2 feet of breaker bar, and 1/2 the diameter of the flywheel, the crankshaft is the fulcrum. All that against a tiny starter gear and motor armature.
Like I said, think of a bicycle chain, the tension in the top of the chain from the crank to the rear wheel sprocket under pressure is equal, until the rear wheel spins. The crank of the bike is the crank of the car, the rear sprocket is the starter gear.
You have a huge lever, 2 feet of breaker bar, and 1/2 the diameter of the flywheel, the crankshaft is the fulcrum. All that against a tiny starter gear and motor armature.
Last edited by Snydermann; 04-19-2018 at 12:07 PM.
#23
04-19-2018, 12:11 PM
There is no toothed gearing advantage until it starts to spin.
#24
04-19-2018, 12:15 PM
hey everyone ! Yes I bump started it in 5th gear yesterday.. it ran for like 10 minutes cause I just drove it back to where it was and turned it off.. it still sounded super healthy! No noises or anything.. I’ll update more this weekend about what I’ve figured the problem is.. at to the one who commented about mileage, 233,000kms which idk what it is in miles
#25
04-19-2018, 12:26 PM
Engage a 30" prybar into a tooth of the starter, lever against the starter housing, and pull. The prybar is now about the same as one tooth on the flywheel (driven by a 24" prybar plus the 6" radius of flywheel).
Gear reduction or advantage has nothing to do with it.
Last edited by Snydermann; 04-19-2018 at 12:44 PM.