Fairly new to me 02 R53 with some mods (s/c under drive pulley unknown size, cat-back, aftermarket air-filter assembly):

Developed a misfire the other night, CEL and all that. Got home, pulled codes and got a P0202 for injector circuit fault. Pulled intercooler and sure enough three of the injectors measure 12 ohms and #2 is an open circuit. Make sure I have good contact, and yup still open. Well that was easy....

Now the hard part...

What injector do I put back in here?

The injector I removed is an all black bosch that has had the part number ground off it (common for parts that don't meet spec, manufacturers sell them cheap). PO told me he had put 440s in because "from what I've read that's as large as you can go with out having to re-tune the car"

Now that I have started to run down this road I have not found a single post that says "I've ran 440s without tuning and all good" Not to say they are not out there but haven't seen one. I've had the car for about 5k miles and has never thrown a code for system rich or a catalytic inefficiency....

Now that these cars are getting older (and cheaper) is there a newer school of thought on the 440s? Did he actually have a tuned ECU and not know it (PO was not the original owner)? Did he lie about the injector size and have something smaller or closer to stock in there?

More importantly now that I've had one fail what should I put back? Cross my fingers and throw a single 440 in there? There is a set of new Bosch 440s on ebay for under 200 I saw. I'd rather do this as affordably as possible. If the stock ones would be sufficient (SAFE, could tolerate some power loss) for the mods I'd be comfortable with decent used set that's been cleaned...or what else would you recommend??

Thanks NAM!!

 

Going to move you to the Stock Problems/Issues area, should get more views there.

1.) Do the injector plug into the MINI harness or is there an additional harness that connects the non-MINI injectors to the MINI harness?
2.) Yes there is a recent thread where a member said he put 440's in without a tune but there is nobody around here other than the poster that thinks it can be done on a stock tune.
3.) Without knowing the injector number and whether you have an aftermarket tune, IMO this like throwing dice.

 

Thanks, where ever it will get the most attention

1)Plugged directly in existing harness
2) Anyone know his screen name or if he is still active? I will search but if it's easy for you to find and link to that would be great!
3)No doubt.

EDIT: I assume it's Animal just found the thread :/ Doesn't seem very promising

 

Yes it was animal. Suggest you take a picture of the injectors and post it here. Have you made sure that the others have no numbers?

 

Your best bet, if none of them have numbers, would be to try and find a shop that can test those.
Otherwise yes, you'll just have to guess and hope to get lucky, without having to buy more than one size.
It's esp tough because of the OEM connection... Most 440's and up require a pigtail adaptor, and factory injectors are either brown (330's) or light blue (380's)
Good luck.

 

Pic can be seen here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthist...f_an_injector/

Only thing left on any of them are mold cavity number, possibly a date code and a small Bosch logo.

Everything that I found only as far as pics go confirm the brown or light blue for stock (S/JCW) so I know these have been changed.

As far as running condition on these injectors, occasionally the car would start and run rough. Like down a cylinder maybe even down 2, sometimes stall backing out of parking spot. If I would let it warm up a little and the re-start all was good. I thought maybe an injector was leaking and drowned a cylinder for a few min.

Now for the heresy: It's running again on a set of Bosch 350s from a Volvo 5cyl turbo (also a multi-valve). They are 16 ohm so 25% less current draw (no concern about overloading the circuit) Couldn't find the spray pattern measurements after 10 min so just thought I'd try them for funsises. Installed, cleared codes and fired right up with a smooth idle. I know they are fair from ideal but they got the car out of the garage until a I score a set of JCWs.

Flame on

 

No picture.

With the stall at cold, sounds like you a have a tune that in turn points toward the 440.

 

So even when they tune the ECM they can't fix a cold start with the 440s??

Are there any tell tale "this has a tune" indicators? Back in my VW days you could look at max boost data stream and see right away if the tables had been edited, but that was turbo with an electronic controlled VNT.

I can't imagine the drive-ability issues I was intermittently experiencing would be acceptable to many other people. I have the benefit of a 1/2 mile long driveway that I can putt down, will be close to warm by the end and then restart. For the average city dweller you would have to leave idle for a few min or limp it 3-4 blocks before you could restart and be back to full power

 

I have 440s with a tune. When its cold I have to feather the peddle to keep from stalling when backing out my driveway.

 

That's a terrible tune, but I have found that's where aftermarket tunes are the weakest since they don't spend the time to optimize cold starts like OEMs do

 

This is one of the reasons I use the Mynes guys and do the remote tuning, they do everything, including cold start and run, not just WOT.
I've never had an issue with the car not running correct, when we've been done with a tune, no matter what the weather or conditions. And that's both with the 550's or the 650's I currently use.

 

I'm talking perhaps the first minute, after that no issues. The point being that as the OPs cars has issues at cold start up, I am thinking its tuned with 440 injectors at least and not the Stock S or JCW types.

 

Also started and idled beautifully with a set of 350s so I'm not sure what I've got

 

...and I went out and it started right up on three cylinders. Drove to the end of the lane, scanned codes to find #2 (this cyl has always been the intermittent and the dead injector). Shut it off, cleared and restarted...all four happy as can be. Meh

Went out ran some errands, stomped on it a little bit and everything seems happy.

 

So cyl #2 has been consistently dying on you before and after the injector upgrade?

 

Not exactly consistent but fairly regularly.

The car has had an intermittent misfire on cold starts (2 our of 5), warm and or hot re-starts have always been fine. Never a misfire at cruise or under load. The only code that would be stored was P0302 (cyl 2 misfire).

The other night the car developed a misfire while driving (just after a hard 1st and 2nd pull) and that is the first time I saw the P0202 (cyl 2 injector circuit fault). That injector was an open circuit and clearly bad. Swapped in the 350s fired up on 3 cyl again...d'oh didn't clear codes, clear codes and re-start to perfectly smooth idle, quick light test drive- all good.

Last night fired up on three cyl (P0302 again) double checked all of my connections, shrugged and decided to test drive none the less. Re-started at the end of the lane and back on all four (this has been the consistent remedy for the cold start misfire).

So I think there are/ were two different problems. Maybe a valve seal leaking depending, on its position and oil fouling the spark plug...not sure at this point.

 

As a rule of thumb, you should always understand the problem fully before seeking a solution. For some reason, car people (led by mechanics) seek to understand the problem only by seeing what solution makes it go away. This works well on common problems where the first thing they try works, but it is fundamentally flawed and bound to be frustrating. The first thing I'd do is a compression test followed by a leakdown if that comes back clear.

 

Am aware, was an ASE tech for ~8 years.

Intermittent misfire never bothered me, the hard fail did.

 

If the code is a misfire for a cylinder, why is the only culprit being considered the injectors? Wouldn't you check the plugs, wires and coil (and the terminals, even on the stock coil can get some buildup, especially on #3 and #4).Or did I miss that discussion?

So would pop off the wires and check/clean the coil terminals. Then I would pull the plugs and 'read" them. Swap the bad cylinder plug with one farther away. See if the bad cylinder moves. This will eliminate most variables.

Misfire under load could be fuel delivery (fuel pump, fuel filter), but everything else points to something other than fuel delivery.

Hope this gets solved.

Regards,
Jerry

 

I am glad I would not need you to work on any of my vehicles, down to my bicycles.

 

Hey Jerry,

I had done preliminary checks (plugs wires etc) when first looking at the intermittent. None of which yielded anything.

Then I had a hard fail misfire that threw an injector code, which was in fact a bad injector (infinite resistance) the whole point of this thread was actually "what injectors do I have/ What should I put back". It then morphed from there...

Still have the intermittent misfire, still not worried about it