Trouble Starting My R53
 

I bought a 2006 MCS for my son some four years ago. It now has 91K on the odometer and it is noticeably harder to start than it was even three weeks ago. The problem has become more constant over time. The car runs smooth, has standard 25-26 MPG around town, 28 MPG on highway gas mileage. No engine codes showing.

A little background: My son just graduated from college and took his car for a 6K mile trip around the USA. The car ran fine when it left and had just started having a little slowness in catching when the starter turned the engine over when he returned home. In the last three weeks it has gotten noticeably worse.

Steps I have taken. I noticed the hose going from the front of the car to the air filter box was split. I bought a new one and had my local mechanic replace it for $400. He checked for codes and found none. He told me the gas filter is in the tank and that it is unlikely to be the problem. That repair didn't help much to improve starting. I changed out the air filter, plugs, wires and replaced the coil. That improved the smoothness of the running but not the staring problem. Next step I can think of is to check the fuel pump pressure.

One other thing. Before going on the trip I made the mistake of getting the oil changed at Mini. They came back and told me the drain plug was too loose to use again, that it was over sized already and that I needed a new oil pan. The new oil pan cost me $1K (expensive oil change!). I bring this up because I have read that the oil pan purge valve goes on Minis and is pretty easy to replace. Would a bad purge valve create a starting problem? Could the changing of the oil pan impact starting? I can't imagine how!

Any ideas of what to do next? Are there standard issues that make these cars hard starting? I can't afford to go to mechanics and dealerships at $400 per visit until I find the problem.

IMO given the $400 airbox "hose job" I'd highly recommend finding another mechanic. The rubber airbox hose should take no more than .25 hour to change

+1 on new mechanic, good place to start.

91K miles and he doesn't think the fuel filter needs changing? Yeah, find another mechanic. Yep, checking fuel pump pressure would be a good idea but if it were low, you'd probably see a code thrown.

Fuel pressure test will help narrow the suspects down. Good results will rule out pump&filter. I had those issues. Got only 22psi instead of 50+. Pulled the pump & saw a split hose from pump to filter. A 30R10 Gates submersible fuel hose swap solved it. Unfortunately, i did that diagnosis last. In the process I got new plugs, wires, fuel rail pressure regulator, coolant temp sensor, ATI damper, fuel filter. I looked at it as blessing in disguise.:)

While on this topic, what are the symptoms of a clogged fuel filter and what is the recommended replacement interval.

Reduced power at top end (high fuel demand situations)....
Many do it around 100,000 miles as a "feel good" item...it is a HUGE filter (consider how little fuel these cars use compared to other cars and their filters)..90+% of the time IMO when done, it is just to say it has been done....
Many folks will not agree....but more issues might have been caused by folks changing it wrong than problems fixed....
One cavat....
In 2005 US fuel was switched from MTBE blended fuel that often left a varnish from aged fuel to ethanol fuel, which is a cleaner/solvent that disloves this varnish......many folks who bought fuel at this "switchover" time did have fuel filter issues... Stations had issues when e-10 first started cleaning years of the varnish residue out of their tanks....dealers of gen1 cars (and other makes) under warrenty went through lots of filters and pumps in a few months....those days seem to be gone though...

Thanks all for the advice. Will definitely check the fuel pump pressure. What about the purge valve? Any chance it is the problem?

Purge valve near the passenger side engine mount? That's a $20 Delphi 1997278 part that you can just change. It usually triggers the gas cap light when it fails.

Got it! Purge valve has no impact on starting. Thanks!

Did you by chance check to see if the battery needs replacing? Sounds like the car is turning over but minis are notorious for acting odd when the battery is going dead.

Never go to "your" mechanic ever again...the charge for replacing that hose is astronomical...he is actually charging you about 1600 an hour. To replace that hose leading to the airbox should take a well trained mechanic under 10 minutes. Terrible...you may have trusted him in the past but he didn't even diagnose anything and he charged you that much.

Randomly replacing things and swapping things here and there is going to get expensive quick and please don't be offended by this statement but if you were uncomfortable swapping the airbox hose...DO NOT touch anything fuel related. Fuel is highly flammable, irritates the skin, and should not be your first DIY project.

Go to the mini dealer get a diagnosis and then decide what you want to do...their labor rates aren't that high,.,roughly 100 an hour. That's 1/16th of what "your" mechanic charged you

You say this started after you lent the car to your son.....for a multi thousand mile road trip....
You say slow to start..check the battery...not sure if you mean slow crank or slow to catch WHILE cranking....
If that is OK...
Next get a compression check...low compression can lead to a slow start....just thinking maybe some 87 got pumped into the car to save some $$... Maybe caused some valve issues?! Just a guess.

here is somehthing to try to see if its the fuel pump before you hook up a gauge. turn the key on to ACC and wait for the pump to prime the lines(build up pressure), then crank it over... if your car starts with out much issue its pump/ that line that was discused above thats on the pump....

intrestrinly enough. i have the same issue that is getting worse and worse but it only happens first thing int he morning. i can go to work and 8 hours later the car will start no problem first time. even if i start the car and dont start it 12-14 hours later it staerts fine... the only time it wont start is the wait from over night..... it does start better when i prime the lines then start it, so im sure i have a fuel pump issue ill put a gauge on the rail to see what the pressure looks like eventually.

I think ZippyNH wins the prize! First off, I bought the car for my son, so he didn't borrow it for the trip. But now that you mentioned it. He and his friend did use regular gas the whole trip to save money. Might that plus driving 125 MPH to test how fast it would go cause a problem? Battery is good, it cranks fine, just doesn't catch but I like the fuel pump test. I will try that.

Huge problem..these cars are forced induction motors and MUST run premium to avoid detonation etc..so your son saving 2.00 per fill could turn into a very expensive repair...

I went with Kahnfcious idea and checked the battery. It was an original Mini Cooper from 2006! Kudos to the manufacturer but it was down over 120 cranking amps so I swoped it out for a new one. It didn't help at all. I tried Greekdrifter's idea to test the pump and letting the pump build up pressure did not help. BUT I did discover that I can get it to catch quickly if I put the peddal to the floor and then crank. this only works after the first start of the day. That suggests the pump right? I also found out my dumb son has continued to put 87 in it after the trip because he is in between jobs. I threw in a can of K44 and put premium gas in it. still has trouble catching on first start up... BUT no trouble catching on subsequent starts. What say you wise ones?

Check the fuel pressure on the fuel rail schrader valve.

So I took it to a second mini dealer who told me my problem is, indeed, the fuel pump. So I bought a fuel pump from ECS and intend to replace it myself. My new question is: Is there a DIY on this in our Forums. I found one for an R56 but not for an R53. Also. I found a DIY on line that said you have to take the engine apart to depressurize the system. I am not about screwing with the engine. If there is pressure in the system why wont it be relieved when you take the hose off the pump?

Just use the diy for a fuel filter change....should be 90% of what you need....
You could pull the fuel pump fuse....and then crank the motor... Will drain the rail and release the pressure....or just reach under the intercooler to the fuel rail, and depress the sc reader valve... Looks like a tire valve...and drain off the psi..catch the gas in a old baby food jar sized container...
Hopefully your gas tank is under 1/4 also....

P.S.
The goal of releasing the fuel psi is to prevent it from spraying....you will be working INSIDE the car...under the rear seat....interior...fabric...carpets...you get the picture.

Victory is ours!
 

My son and I installed the new fuel pump today. Complete success! It starts perfectly! ... and we saved about $600 over going to the Mini dealership. The prep and removal of the pump was simple. I ignored the suggestions of relieving the pump pressure at the Scraeder valve before removal - didn't want to deal with taking the engine apart. The pressure was low anyway and we made sure to have a rag around the pressure hose when we disconnected it and kept the unit in the tank so aany leakage stayed in the tank. Worked like a charm! It took several hours but that was because we wasted one trying to replace the retaining ring on the gas pump. The directions with the pump and the online Pelican DIY video don't mention that the seal between the pump and the fuel tank has two lips. One lip goes in the tank, the other provides the seal between the tanks and the pump. we tried to compress both lips between the tank and the pump and then tighten the retaining ring and it just wasn't possible. After realizing they don't have gorillas on the assembly line standing on the fuel pump to give sufficient pressure to get the retaining ring to fit, we tried putting the ring on the tank first and then settling the fuel pump into place. Worked beautifully! Thanks to all for your advice. The Mini, my son and his old man are all happy again! :thumbsup:

Grats, Ed!

I'm late to this discussion, but yes the purge valve can indeed cause stalling while starting up. It turned out to be the problem in my case, and it never triggered the gas cap light.

Glad you solved your issue!

Caught this discussion too late to possibly save you some money. I replaced my fuel pump yesterday, too- my symptom was good crank, no start at all one morning after years of running beautifully ('02 R50). I'll do a separate post with pictures of what I found, but essentially there was a loose electrical connection "inside" the fuel pump at the motor itself. The little connector that slides on to the "blade" coming up out of the motor was loose, causing high resistance and no 12 volts to the motor. Squeezing the connector together with a needle nose and putting it back on fixed the pump- after I had installed the new one. Oh well, it never hurts to have a spare.

Val

Minsanity - where did you find this part for $20? My car has been stalling on startup and requiring a second crank....willing to invest $20 on a gamble...been seeing it more in the $70 range.

Thanks