A yarn about a mini cooper S R56, a timing chain, and a warning.
 

So basically if you have the timing chain clacking sound make sure you get that fixed immediately. My car is a 2007 with ~67k miles on it. I finally decided to take to the dealer because of a screeching sound coming from the motor. This was last week, I also mentioned the clackity-clack of the timing chain issue we all know and love.

Anyway much to my surprise MINI covered the timing chain replacement out of warranty! For free! Unfortunately some piece had broken off into the motor, which was to be cleaned out by removing the oil pan. New and improved timing chain installed, all is good.

...As an aside, also make sure you guys/gals all get your PCV valve checked. My car had a bad one of those too, and it was guzzling oil....

So this morning I'm stoked because the car is running stronger than it has in months much to my surprise. I'm zipping around like usual on my jolly commute into the office. When CRACK CRUNCHCRUNCHCRUNCH engine quits!!!! So I try to restart, the car doesn't turn over just SCREECH CRUNCH CRUNCH. Bad news. Motor is FUBARED.

I get a tow into the dealer, and they have a look. They let me know that they "missed a piece" when cleaning the pieces out of the other destroyed part, that got sucked up into the timing chain sprocket, popped the chain off, and it got all crunched crunched in the bottom somewhere.

NOT GOOD. OBV! So now comes the fun part. The tech writer tells me they're going to *repair* the damaged timing chain/sproket, clean the engine out for me and give it back! YAY!

NOT YAY :mad: As people schooled in the black art of automobile engines know, when the timing chain pops BAD POOP like pistons smacking valves tends to happen.

SO I say: I think you owe me a new engine. He SAYS: We'll see.

So I pose to people in the know here this question: How hard do I push for a new engine? Can this be repaired without a new engine?

Any experience / advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

I would push very hard for a new engine. The failure is based upon dealer failure to remove all pieces. The fact that your engine wont turn over is a VERY bad sign. good luck with it. there are going to be internal issues. Doubtful that the car will start with new chain. Suspect either bearing damage or valve damage due to timing being out.

Yes, it was nice that they did the work out of warranty. However, due to that "goodwill", they screwed up and damaged your engine. So they're liable, end of story.

Update
 

So today I get a call from the tech writer:

• We pulled the piece out, re attached the SAME CHAIN to the SAME SPROCKET the chain fell off of, started the car noticed it was running rough
• Identified BENT VALVES - Replaced the valves
• Put the car back together - tech is going to drive it home to verify it's ok

So at this point I'm really pissed. They're saying that they won't give me a new engine. Now I need to talk to the service manager etc.

So basically they screw up the fix in the first place. Engine grenades does I don't know how much damage, they replace valves, and are prepared to call it good.

Outside of pursuing legal action is there any way I can get help here? Does calling MINI corporate help at all?

We'll I'm not convinced they owe you a new engine. They certainly owe you an engine that works properly. If they can repair the engine you have currently what's wrong with that?

Well if they replace the oil pump, pistons, verify the cylinders aren't losing compression, replace the bearings, etc etc. Then sure. Which would be a full rebuild. I mean as anyone knows that has a bike I can tell you chains are compromised when they jump off the sprocket, and teeth are rounded off in that process.

If pistons were smacking valves (which they were) then you also have damage to the piston heads.

So my question is then if they didn't replace all of those parts, wouldn't you agree the engine is not *fixed* ? I expect the engine to last as long as one that didn't have this event happen. Which at this point is not something I feel is proven to me since they didn't rebuild the motor.

Also it should be said they missed 'pieces' in the engine before what's to say there isn't something else missing?

Bottom line is that an engine is never designed to pop a timing chain off and have foreign objects floating in the engine oil while under operation. Anyone who knows a little bit about engines knows that the only way you can be assured this problem won't happen again is to do a complete tear down, and verify all parts are in proper working shape, which I can assure you was not done in an 8 hr day.

Additionally since I'm an honest person when it comes time to sell the car I'll disclose what has happened.

Would you buy a car that has experienced such damage and had that fix? I'm guessing not. Especially not for full blue book.

Very good points. I hope it all works out for you. Good luck!

Funny you say that but I'm not sure I would buy ANY Mini at full book.

:popcorn:

So I ended up just selling the car to the Stealer for 7500.

I couldn't in all honesty sell the car on craigslist, look someone in the eye and tell them that it will work fine.

I still like the MINI brand, and the cars, but they really need to work on reliability. Stevens Creek mini customer service was ok, but I think the repairs were far below what is warranted when the chain comes off of the sprocket and pistons smack valves.

Hopefully the 2014s have a better engine design. The reliability of this car sours me on the BMW brand as a whole. If I pay a premium price for a car I expect more.

So what are you driving?

Very interesting. :popcorn:

You have to remember, sometimes its not the dealerships call on what they can or can not do when it comes to how they will address a certain repair or claim by a customer if its going to be covered by MINIUSA/BMWNA (paritally or fully) or even if its going to be covered internally. By all means they could have simply told you to go kick rocks and claimed your failure was caused by one of the many possibilities that is considered (and seen quite often) to be customer maintenance neglect that could have contributed to that exact same failure. But instead it seems like they were quite honest with you and even admitted that the previous install was the contributor to the current failure, something that is very rare in the automotive repair industry (dealership or independent). I am also with what someone above said, if they said they could fix it, make it run properly without complete replacement whats the problem?

Either way, what did you end up buying to replace your $7500 paper weight?

MINI covered the initial fix. That was great. The dealer made the mistake of leaving a piece in the engine that damaged it further. The dealer gives a 2 year warranty on work, which means it could fail 2yrs 1day, and I need to buy myself a new engine.

If you're familiar materials/engineering you know that once an event like that has happened you know there is damage to the entire structure of the parts that were involved in the unintended contact. In essence the engine was running outside of what the engine was designed to do. Pistons smacking valves, and chains grinding on sprockets aren't good for the long term longevity of the engine. Not to mention bearing stress, and stresses on other parts of the engine. The pistons will have marks/scoring on the top from where the valves were smacked, the cams etc. could also have damage.

You have to consider dealers always do the *cheapest* fix not the *right* fix because they're a business and they want to make money.

So the the car may be worth say 100k miles instead of 125k miles. (it's hard to know without driving two identical cars one with the problem one without) There is no way of knowing for sure. The question becomes then: Is the dealer responsible for returning the car to the state it would have been without such a huge failure? Yeah I think so. Bottom line that they were nice to me, but didn't fix the engine to return it to the state before they made the mistake that caused the failure.

They didn't even replace the oil filter. Surely parts grinding against each other get metal into the oil as well. So my level of confidence for the life of the car was pretty much 0 after this event. And as I said before I can't in good conscience sell the car to someone for full value without disclosing that issue.

They couldn't have. They fixed the car with MINI's blessing because MINI knows the engine has a design flaw. The dealer made the mistake of not fixing it which caused a further more catastrophic engine failure. If they told me to "kick rocks" they would have had a losing court case on their hands, and they knew it.

Sounds like you work for a dealer. Something that is *very rare* shouldn't be applauded when it's the *expected* way of doing ethical honest business. SC MINI did that, and I'm glad they're a stand up shop, but at the end of the day the repairs aren't what I feel were necessary to return the car to the shape it was in before I brought it to them for the first repair.

Audi TT-RS

If anything I would push for a written warranty on the car...

TT-RS? Nice! Pics?

I'm shocked. Are other dealers replacing timing chains for out-of-warranty vehicles?

Yeah :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Oops double post. Sorry