2002 Mini Cooper S won't crank over
 

There are many unanswered posts on this site. I was hoping this one would be different as I too have this issue. When I turn the key over everything lights up and then when I go to start it nothing happens. Also the door chimes are weird not every time are they on and the headlights won't come on unless the key is in the ignition to run position. All fuses are good, I get 12volt signal out of the ignition. I get a signal out of the clutch pedal. The starter has a solid 12volt constant supply and there is no 12volts at the solenoid when cranking over. So I hot wired over to the solenoid and it cranks just fine but it won't start still even in run position or start position. I also went ahead and replaced the starter with a brand new cvt starter (6 speed apparently uses the automatic cvt transmission starter the manual one wouldn't fit).

I ordered a new immobilizer from bmw and it is coming programmed. I do not think it's the chip in the key because the key unlocks and locks the doors just fine with the buttons.

I really hope this works but I am puzzled after finding hot wiring the starter solenoid and turning the car over won't start it still. Maybe the ecu still isn't receiving signal to power injectors or plugs.

There are a lot of posts that I have read where the ignition switch was the issue...I think its about $90 ... not sure how much an immobilizer is -- but hopefully its returnable.

This type of thread scares me btw -- when people started replacing all kinds of things...like starter, immobilizer etc..and none of it fixes the problem.

Sorry for your troubles.

Hopefully it works...
The imoblizer is 100% NOT related to opening the doors or using the remote...it is a seperate, unrelated chip in the key.
The imoblizer chip is basicly a rfid chip...unpowered, that is "read" by the car...it is possible to unglue it from a key...they are just glued in....
The CHIME should by most folks info, show the imoblizer chip has been "read" and a start is ok...the fact it sounds odd....might be the tell it is not aok.
Good luck again!!

The ignition is working fine. I removed the steering column plastics and exposed the harness then metered at the blue/white(i believe this was the wire) it reads nothing until the key is in the cranking position then it shows +12v Also the same color wire from the clutch switch is picking up +12v when the clutch is pressed in. So I eliminated those and metered the starter solenoid when ignition is switched to cranking position and it is not reading anything. All fuses were pulled out and inspected and every one checked out okay. Hope this extra information helps with a diagnostics. BMW recommended this part without being able to see the car and actually diagnose it. The only other thing is the key correct? The starter gets that constant 12volt feed. and the engine turns over if I jump 12v+ to the solenoid from that feed.

Thank you everyone for the help. I just got this mini cooper s for cheap and am hoping it stays that way to get it running :D Here are some pictures of her. That is also my red car. It is a suzuki aerio swt(very rare).

First day I had her. Took this video that night and pointed out all the blemishes and also showed what it does when trying to start it.


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http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...59107655_n.jpg

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So it sounds to me like the solenoid is dead. Or a short?

Brand new starter and the previous one tested good too. I just went ahead and replaced it because it was original and super hard to get too.

Im going to chime in and say you may be on the right path with getting a new key/immobilizer. I only say this because you mentioned that the door chime comes and goes.

Last week i installed a remote starter in my 03 cooper s, i only had one key so i had to basically permanently bypass the immobilizer by putting the rfid chip in a box that scans the code out of it and wired it to ignition.

During my testing i noticed that regardless of whether the key is in the ignition or not the keysense chime only comes on when the rfid chip is present. I left the key in the ignition and waved the chip near the key in the cylinder and then away and the chime would come and go. Also if I tried cranking the car without a chip it would do nothing at all. No crank. Other vehicles such as Fords and Chryslers would actually start and then shut down.

So again I think your on the right track with the immobilizer. But hey, I dont now nothin I just work here. Haha. :lol:

If you have the steering column apart and can see the wiring there should be two small black wires coming from the front of the ignition cylinder. Inspect those and follow them to make sure theres no breaks or loose connections.

Are those ignition grounds?

The battery could cause a problem for you, these cars act weird when battery is going. And I am not saying to just try and jump start it, I am saying brand new battery I had weird things similar to yours going on when mine was going, and jump starting etc. did nothing but when new battery was in everything was fine.

That's what I had thought and so I did in fact go and purchase a new battery. Super start from o riellys.

I noticed the strange things with the battery last night. It was dropping 10volts as I was testing some stereo stuff that I was installing and the radio would die out entirely whenever I would turn on the lights and the dashes and computer was flickering really bad. I charged the battery over night and all is good now but still won't start.

Curious what you mean by new immobilizer. Inside of the key, independent of the remote lock/unlock circuit board, is what was previously correctly described at an RFID chip. When you turn the key (or maybe even when you just put it in to the lock as the car should chime to indicate it recognizes the key), the "energizing circuit" emits a low level RF signal from the ring antenna around the ignition switch. When the ignition circuit gets what it needs back from the RFID chip, it will signal the starter to spin and the ignition circuit to energize. This is why you could hot wire the starter but the car still would not start.

My suggestion would be to order a new key from the MINI dealer- you can get what is called the "general key" which has no remote but unlocks the doors and starts the car. This key is about $60 at the dealer. You didn't mention it but I'm guessing you only have the one key. Your immobilizer chip in your existing key may have gone bad. Replacing any circuitry in the car itself won't fix the problem if the RFID chip has gone bad.

I have some pictures of some open clamshell type keys here if you want to take a look at what's inside. Undoubtedly your key still has the chip inside but my guess is that it's gone bad.

P.S.- I love Electric Blue!

Val

Hey Val.

I follow what you are saying. My question (after looking at the link you provided) is, can I just purchase a new rfid chip from bmw? Or does it have to come with a key? Cause my clicker does work perfect fine. If I can order a simple 60$ key as you say with the chip then there is no reason I can't just pull it and put it into my current key with the bad rfid chip.

I metered the clutch switch, ignition switch, and both send signals as they should through the proper wires(i have a manual with wiring diagrams) So that's why I thought it was the immobilizer. But the key would make more sense to me.

edit: oh and you are correct on that assumption. This is my only key. I just bought the car from another person not a car lot or dealer.

One more question. Could this circular ring antenna around the ignition key switch go bad or lose power or something?

I don't think you can just purchase the RFID chip from MINI/BMW, but it can't hurt to ask. As with the entire key, they would have to program it just for your car. I know $60 seems kind of steep for a key but it doesn't hurt to have a spare, even if in your case it would be useful only to unlock your car if you lock the good key inside (assuming you swap the RFID chip out).

I suppose the ring antenna could go bad or the tiny transmitter could go bad as well. Not sure what happens with your existing keys if you have to start replacing ring antennas/transmitters/etc. in the steering column.

Val

Okay thank you for the information. I guess I will just wait and see what happens with the new immobilizer and if that isn't the fix then go for a new key and take it from there.

I'm still curious what part they sold you that was called an immobilizer. Was it the part that goes inside of the steering column? I'd be curious to know if a new immobilizer in the car would work with the existing key(s). Did they ask for your VIN when you were at the dealer?

Val

Yes i am not entirely sure what the part looks like but I know they had to get my VIN number so it could be programmed to work with my key

No, those are the wires that go to and from the black ring around the ignition cylinder to the BCM i believe. If those wires or even the copper strands of wire wrapped inside the black ring are broken then they wont transmit the key code to the BCM.

This would just be from the battery discharging. Electrical stuff does funny things when you supply just barely enough power for it to operate. Such as what you were experiencing.

Now on these transmitter wires is there a way to actually test them with a meter? Or is this strictly visible inspection? I will check em out tomorrow.

Thanks

Possibly, not sure what the correct voltage would be but its defiinitly going to be a low voltage circuit.

How are you making out?

Hey, thanks for checking in.
Still waiting on the immobilizer. Today I found a wire that was grounding my wiper arm to the strut tower. Apparently it needs this ground to function. I am not sure what is wrong with the factory ground but am beginning to wonder if it has anything to do with the car not starting :/

Poor ground contact can be a possibility. Had it happen to my 03 RAV4. Suddenly wouldn't start after being parked for 2hrs. Just kept clicking & noticed some sparks & smoke near the starter.:eek: After removing & testing starter & batt, both turned out fine. Guess what? Bad ground point. Removed the body ground terminal, cleaned the contact surface & reinstalled. Car started instantly. Worth goin' thru.

Now was this an engine to frame ground or the battery to frame ground? Cause it doesnt even turn over. The starter doesnt even get power at all