Need to replace Turbo and warranty won't cover it, need advice!
 

Hi all, let me start by saying that it is my fault for going -6k without an oil change. I really did not notice, this is my first Mini and I am used to being notified by a specific indicator, not to mention that I do a lot more driving now due to a change in position at work and I was racking up a lot more miles than I thought.

With that said, I got a check engine light (the one with the slash going through it) and power was reduced. Took it in for service and they told me that the oil was all slugged and it clogged up the turbo and that Mini didn't want to cover the repair under warranty because they said it was owner neglect and they quoted me a ridiculously high price to fix it.

Anyone have any advice? Any shops they'd recommend preferably in the North NJ area? Or any Mini mechanics that do work "on the side." Anyone know the estimated labor hours to replace the turbo?

What's weird is that before I took it in for service, aside from the light and the reduced power, the car wasn't making any noises or stalling. After I picked it up (they changed the oil) it is now very noisy and jerky/stalling when I slow down. I asked the mechanic at the Mini dealer why it was worse now than when I brought it in and he said that it was because of the new oil which makes no sense to me. The mechanic also said there's a small chance that it could clear up in a few days. Any thoughts on any of this?

The MINI itself should tell you when it needs oil changes. Every 15,000mi is what BMW recommends. 6k shouldn't be a problem. Though many choose to change oil more often, BMW designed the car and if they say 15k, they can't blame you for going 6k.


If you changed the oil more frequently than the 15k BMW recommends, then they don't have a case for neglect.


If the car comes back worse than it went in, there is a problem. That mechanic is full of s#!^ -- no car should be louder and "jerky" with fresh oil.

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Sorry maybe my wording was confusing. What I meant is that I am 6k miles overdue, that's what I meant by the -6k. It's been 20k miles since my last oil change.

Ouch... no wonder the dealership gave you the cold shoulder.

I completely agree with this statement

Yikes!!! What came out? Tar?

As the clean oil works its way into the crevasses and turbo lines it might smooth out a little. With the old thick oil you had before you probably never experienced the real "normal" loud engine noises and maybe even the jerkiness of the S Model. Do you have an auto or manual?

It's automatic. That's kinda what the mechanics explanation was, about the old oil being thick and quieting down the noise. It just sounds odd because its really loud now and it also feels like its going to turn off. I'm going to take a quick video and upload it. I popped the hood and its coming right from the front area under a silver/metal looking cover. Is that that turbo?

Yes.

Ouch, how much is the dealer charging you for a new turbo?

Here's a video, the noise is really bad. Like I said I had no noise before, I also almost couldn't start it. I know the turbo is shot, but I still can't wrap my head around an oil change causing all these symptoms.

that has to be the worst sounding MINI i have ever heard. That really sucks bro. But now you know for next time that you need to stay on the maintenance of your car, and i bet you wont miss another oil change. Good Luck getting it fixed.

That's a nasty sounding engine, does the sound speed up/get louder when you increase the revs? Kind of sounds like a spun rod bearing man. The thicker oil was probably keeping everything together.

How much are they saying it will cost to repair your vehicle?

No, its actually worse when I slow down or stop. The car just straight up "died" today. I drove it for about 10 minutes and every time I stopped at a light it would be really jerky with vibrations/stuttering and it finally went dead. I had to call roadside. STILL can't understand how an oil change could have caused this, oh well. For those asking, I was quoted about $3600 but the service rep lowered it to about $2700. She's been really helpful.

If you don't change your oil, your turbo will fail. It's that simple. The journal bearing in the turbo turns at over 100,000rpms. If there isn't clean oil in there, the bearing will get damaged and usually fail catastrophically. The reason the dealership won't look at you (and neither will Mini for that matter) is because, put simply, you neglected the car.

I don't know if you waited for oil changes to economize or what, but what could have been a few relatively cheap oil services now turned into a multiple thousand dollar bill.

Sorry for your pain. Hope you somehow manage to get it sorted one way or another. I hope your engine didn't ingest turbine fragments...

Maybe this link can be informative for you. It primarily refers to HDi diesel engines, but the idea is the same for petrol turbocharged engines.

http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/techn...arger-failure/


I can provide some answers to your questions since I had my turbo replaced under warranty (failed internal seal). Work hours for replacement are approximately 3-4 hours as the front of the car has to be removed. The high cost is due to the cost of the turbo itself. You might have some success in finding a remanufactured/refurbished unit.

I have a different opinion!

Are you sure this sound is from the turbo? A turbo does not turn until enough pressure is build in the exhaust chamber to beat its moment of inertia. I would imagine on the MINI with newer smaller turbos, this happens at around 1200-1500 rpm.

I also do not understand how a bad turbo can cause the start problems you are having. Since the turbo does not work until you spin the engine, even with a bad turbo you SHOULD have been able to start the car. (For the sake of comparison, my car has a bad coil on cylinder 4 so that will not fire, but the engine cranks immediately).

Oil Change: The MINI's CBS should inform you when to change oil, if you properly reset it at each oil change (done by the dealership if you take it there). It will consider the way you drive the car and predict the aging of the oil.

Summ up:
I don't disagree with the fact overdue oil changes will damage the turbo. But judging from the video you posted, you probably have a bad HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) which is why your car stalls the way it does (and probably sounds that way). Get a second opinion before you commit to something.

As I stated in my original post it was a mistake on my part, I have warranty so oil changes are covered.

I disagree with your diagnosis...HPFP issue caused a lot of cars not to start and stall out -- they never caused cars to sound like that. There is definitely some metal on metal contact going on in that car and that is not good...the chirping sputtering noise is what has me extremely concerned.

I won't guess as to why he is now having starting issues; however he had it diagnosed at the MINI dealer in person vs. your diagnosis over the internet. I am not starting a flame war but why question a professional in-person diagnosis?

Greater than 6,000 miles over the oil change interval is beyond inappropriate and I wouldn't expect a dime from MINI either...the car was neglected and with free maintenance so I would be especially thankful your service advisor was able to get the rate down. I would be concerned as to what this means to your warranty going forward.

If you are putting in obscene hours cause of your new role then I absolutely feel for you...if you don't have the skills or tools to replace the turbo I wouldn't try to tackle it. You probably don't have the time either given you had to postpone the oil change as far as you did...maybe you could negotiate a loaner car into the rate.

As to why oil would cause these issues: Oil is a lubricant that breaks down over time and loses its ability to lubricate. As others have stated your turbine spins at some obscenely high rate of speed which creates heat and friction (which is mitigated by the fresh and clean oil in there)...when the oil has lost its ability to lubricate you get metal on metal contact and things getting worn away. Likely with the fresh oil in there you are getting a better lubrication and the old oil is not slowing down all the fast spinny bits or masking the noises that were likely already occurring.

As for the turbo not spinning until you hit a certain RPM -- false -- the turbo moves pretty much right away. I actually had a guy who bought my 2003 VW GTI and smoked the turbo on day 5 of ownership. How? He wanted to install an oil cooler and when he did he forgot to factor in that the oil filter and oil cooler needed to fill with oil before it fed the turbo. So he started the car, heard an immediate grinding noise, and saw smoke (from the turbo grinding itself to bits). He didn't approach me asking for anything he just wanted to let me know the fate of my absolutely babied GTI. I felt bad for him but what he failed to read were the instructions on PRIMING the turbo by filling the oil filter with oil when changing the oil.

He promptly put the car back together (new or used turbo I don't know) and I saw that it was sold a few weeks after that. I hope that he disclosed everything to the new buyer but I've never been contacted by anyone (my name and phone number were on the service records) about any further issues.

Before I took it to the dealer for service, the car wasn't noisy, did not stall and although it had reduced power it functioned. After the dealer serviced it and changed the oil, it got really loud, started to stall and yesterday it finally went dead.

When I picked it up I noticed the noise which wasn't there before and asked about it, I spoke to the mechanic who serviced it and like a few people here have said, he basically said it was because now that there is fresh oil things are moving freely.

I drove 25 miles home from the dealer, it died the next day after driving for about 5 minutes as I was moving it to a parking spot until I could figure out what to do and where to take it for service. I wanted to get some quotes from other places, unfortunately since I can't start it I just called roadside and had them tow it to the dealer and I'm going to have them do the work.

Here is what the paper work I received says:

Attachment 162073

The service adviser (Carolyn at Prestige Mini) has been extremely helpful and she gave me a loaner. At this point I'm just really hoping that nothing up pops up and the everything else with the engine will be fine after the new turbo goes in.

I understand what you said about the noise, but any idea as to why pre oil change I had no start/stuttering issues and now the car is unusable?

So my first thought was that a turbine was seized up creating un-manageable back pressure (its exhaust driven remember)...however the paperwork you showed indicated that is not the case.

I'll be honest I don't know -- I am hoping you didn't ingest parts of the impeller or something into the engine...turbos feed air and whatever else they get into the engine at a high rate of speed. That being said impossible for me to know over the internet but should be a concern your service advisor addresses while the car is in. From what others have said looks to be a 1-2 day job maximum...let us know what happens when you get the car back.

BTW good to know that Prestige in Ramsey is good to deal with if my car ever needs something done to it I can't tackle. I have an R53 -- but your post caught my eye.

That video you posted made my heart stop. The poor car! The sound reminds me of when I had a car lose oil catastrophically some years back (not a MINI). I ended up replacing the entire engine because it's damn near impossible to know if you have successfully cleaned out all the metal shards from the oil galleys.

$2700 is a lot to swallow but to replace the turbo and make sure the rest of the engine is in good condition... That is a very fair price. The turbo itself is a $1700 part. That, plus various gaskets and small parts, and a full day labor to do the job.

Good luck!

It is unlikely that the engine would ingest any debris from a catastrophic turbo failure.

The exhaust side debris would end up in the catalytic converter, the intake side bits would be stopped by the intercooler.

Dave

That's good to hear. I really hope nothing else shows up, I have 10 months left on the lease and those $2700 is money I was hoping to potentially use as down payment for my next car. I can tell you this though, I learned my lesson.

Expensive lessons are the ones we NEVER forget! I hope it's sorted out quickly for you and there are no more hidden issues that crop up. Good luck :thumbsup: